Aren't the 2 last plans the same? Did you intend to show 2 different layouts?

It's difficult to read through and pick out your specific questions...Maybe you could number and list them?

The pantry in the top left might work, but it'd take more than the linen space to do so, I think.

The sink in the island with a raised bar is not as good as any of the plans Celticmoon drew for you.

The prep sink is a deal-breaker for your husband, and is that what is making you disregard those plans and want to start over? The prep sink really makes all of those plans work, which, as I and other expressed before, truly are way better than the original. In a space this size, it'd be tough to have an efficient work plan without, and I have to ask why it's necessary. With a house and kitchen this size, it shouldn't add too much to the cost? And you'll benefit every day and every meal.

rhome - yes, I meant to post two separate plans and accidentally posted the same. I will reword and repost with the other layout. I am so grateful to all of the work that celtic put into reworking my plan. DH and I just had time to really review it and those were some questions we raised.

I was thinking if the pantry went in the top left then I would end up having to take the linen closet and part of the old pantry. There may just not be a long hallway to the private MB, which may be ok. Hmmm... not necessarily a deal breaker and I'm thinking I might have to go that route. I just think about the way I use a sink now and I feel like I need it larger then a prep sink close to the cooktop. I completely agree these plans are better then what we have and definitely a start to something I'm sure I will love. Just trying to outweigh all options before making my final decision.

Thanks again for following and for your feedback.

A prep sink need not be small. Malhgold has 30" sinks in both locations in her kitchen. I think Zelmar has a bigger sink near her stove than she has for her cleanup area. If I had a layout like those Celtic did for you, I would also do a larger sink.

cmill I took a few hours and took a shot Its not detailed and its quick and I have no idea how far along construction is but this one doesn't take the empty shaft next to bath vanity but it could expand and slide vanity over for 2 feet larger pantry Currently its 5ft x 5ft. The Ovens I am assuming an oven /MW stack and a bit out of the work area and the cooktop closer to work area. Ref location allows for deeper space if needed for deep unit if not counter depth. The wall by master bedroom could bump back a bit and allow for larger door to master or you can go straight in like others suggested. See if this works for you. Hope it helps a bit

Forgot to mention I didnt know what size ref you use and not sure if you wanted bar stool space inside the kitchen as shown. If not it can obviously be just base cabinets. In this case I saw no reason to raise the bar but it could.

Not much work room around that range in the one above that has 15" on each side...it would be a big issue for me. I suggest at least 18" on one side & 24" on the other (even better is 24" on both sides!)

I agree w/all that RHome410 said, so I won't rehash...

Like I said Im not sure what has been built and if the door openings are ther already. If the opening is reduced and moved over you can increase the space to 18" on either side easily. It could also move the cooktop to the island if you like. I personally am not a major fan of it on the island but thats a personal call. You could also reduce pantry to 5'-6" each way and gain another 6". This works easier if you take over some space in the mast bath and that blank space in your original plan.

Here is pic of 21" on each side

Echoing Buehl on the location of the range.

The other problems to me is the orientation of the range - it's the only direction in the kitchen where you are completely turned away from family and guests.

When the doorway becomes smaller the main pathway into the kitchen is blocked by open ref AND if you ever need to replace it, it could be a bear getting it out of there. It also becomes odd trying to get into the frzr. The kids are channeled to walk behind the cooktop every time.

So I'm back here!
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Ahh!!! Thank you, Thank you so much. Boy does it make a difference to really see it in 3-D to visualize it. As promised, attached is the other plan that I was referring to where the pantry is in the other corner.

Bigkahuna house is currently at a standstill because of all the snow we have been getting. The basement walls have been poured but that is it. DH says I have time to get this kitchen right (within a short amount of time though). Once the weather starts warming up theyll be ready to roll on the house again. So here goes:

1. I love the pantry in that corner. Will it work best in the bottom left corner or top left? Not sure, but as we move other things around we can determine. I definitely love the fact that it is in my kitchen. Not sure if I need it that big, but maybe if I am losing cabinet space then I might want it larger.

2. I do like the location of the clean-up sink as is and so does DH and maybe the prep sink will work best.

3. By biggest dislike and maybe Ill have to live with it in some way is the location of where people are sitting in the kitchen. Most often you have those do-nothing nobodys that want to sit when you are cooking and when you are cleaning up but dont want to help. Doesnt bother me one bit, but Id like to see them when I am doing those things. When I am in the kitchen cooking, baking, prepping, or washing dishes I usually have people sitting on the perimeter of the kitchen so I can see and talk to them at all times. In these options my back is turned towards them. We generally have large get together's, but they are very informal so I am not looking for an over-the-top kitchen but one that is warm and inviting.

4. I do think I prefer swapping the cooktop and ovens. I do more cooking on the cooktop and being on the long wall will allow me to at least look into the great room.

5. Once the kitchen is done the MB door location will fall into place. I am more particularly concerned about the kitchen layout.

6. Other options I thought about and please tell me if they will not work or simply will not look good is Moving the sink on the island with a raised bar around it so that you see less of a dirty mess. Not the best option because it takes away from so much space on the island, but a thought. If I had to choose between the sink on the island or the cooktop in this option then I would prefer the sink. I like the stove against the wall vs. having the sink on that wall. Ideally where the new sink is now is nice because you can see to the great room or out the back windows. 2. Leave the sink on the wall it is but move it down into a curved or L shape and then put stools on the outside. Not sure if space wise that will work. Then putting an island in the center of the kitchen just for me. Or leave the wall to the great room as is, stop before the sink and open that space up more with a larger island. That space can be used for fridge or butlers pantry, or message center. Just options, but my main concern is how else could I redo the kitchen to get seating more around the perimeter or within view of sink and island so backs arent to me?

Thanks for following me and the many great suggestions.

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Some things depend on the ref. depth. If it is not a counter depth it will stick out 30"-36" so I dont care for it being on the wall common to the stair if that is ever the case. It shortens the island and is still in the way of traffic if open.It also tends to block the flow of counter space for me. The cooktop will be an issue of having back turned anywhere you put it in this plan IMHO. Thats because the family room and island are behind you. The cooktop functions fine on the bath wall but it is pretty far away from the rest of the work space and sink for me. The layout you have has 2 entrances into it so traffic is not that confined if ref door is open. The opening shown is 39" and there is no problem replacing a ref and it can alway move through Fam Room if needed. I would also consider moving the stair riser staring location back to allow more headroom and eliminate the door at the top of the steps if you even plan to finish the basement. This allows it to open up and be more welcoming. Put a door at the bottom if you need one. These are just my opinions as I have certain ways I like things to feel. The pantry to me works best in the corner by master bath. The chairs on the end and corner are a concern for me that they overlap knee space in the corner and dont offer much space width wise. I like large islands so allowing space for stools on the back side where they are out of the main work area. You back is always going to be to someone somewhere in this plan because of the great room location, island orientation etc. I find most people spend majority of time at /near the sink. and guest will most likely be in grt room or at island so you will always have back to some at those times. I left the sink but feel the cabinets to the left of sink are best left open to let it feel oppen to dining and as the main entry to the kitchen and have a view out the windows next to fireplace. You just have to choose what things are most important to you and how you live and use the space.

Do you know the depth of your refrigerator ?

Ugh I feel like I stare at these plans hours on end and keep coming up with a blank stare. Sometimes I feel so tempted just to move the pantry into the kitchen, leave all else the same and be done with it! I didnt realize how hard it would be to figure out a kitchen design when I thought what I had worked. I wish I came across this site before designing our house plan. Anyway, I just needed to vent. The pressure is on!

1. DH and I agree we do not like the stools in the kitchen in the first couple of drawings. They seem like they will be too much in the way. I do however, like them better in your very last drawing (post 7:24), however, like you said you lose some leg room, but if not too much I think I would deal with that more than them being behind me in the kitchen. Can I see that in 3-D? Looks like we lost some space there. What about a T shaped island of some sort or some "funky" looking island ½ moon, spanning, whatever?

2. Im ok with having back turned with the cooktop. You dont stand there that long unless you are stirring something or watching the pot boil, so as long as I can turn around, prep, chat and drink a glass of wine then turn back to the stove Im ok. I have to agree that I didnt like the fact that the cooktop was so far from the clean-up sink in the first couple of drawings when it was on the bath wall, however, Ive been told that is what the prep sink is for. Im not sure I could get use to using a prep sink like I do a regular one. Probably sounds funny, I know. I noticed myself cooking tonight and while I am in a very small kitchen I chop/cut raw veggies move them to the side, cut raw meat, wash hands, wash utensils that used them, prepare the meal, put it in the oven or stove, wash dishes, do other things needing preparation but dont require cooking, etc. I dont realize how much you do in a kitchen. When I bake I generally like to have a large surface out to roll, mix, measure, etc. Entertaining, Id like the large island or a long span on a counter to sit drinks, food, etc.

3. I could probably move the stair location back some. Im not sure why he put a landing in there, maybe for safety reasons, but it didnt bother me either way. Not sure how that will affect the plan or what how you plan to use it. Maybe you can draw it out. I think I would prefer to keep the door on for now since we dont plan on finishing it off right away.

4. DH and I love the location of the pantry in the bottom left corner.

5. Maybe we can move seating to in front of the sink in the great room.

6. I like that the cabinets to the left of the sink were left open. Ideally we wanted an open kitchen and great room plan since we both have large families and like to entertain.

7. Since the wall that divides the great room and kitchen has to stay (not load bearing, but breaks up the space between 9ft and cathedral) what if I shortened and then extended across the way on the other side of the room and then just put a big island overlooking the great room? Not sure how Id draw it.

8. I was playing around with Powerpoint (the only thing I can draw in) when we were designing our house and updated it today with some other options. Will you see if any of these will work? Please dont laugh because I do not have a creativity side. Although DH thought I knew what I was doing when he saw this. Ha! Some of these I didn't have a preference on location for fridge and oven/MW combo.

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Somehow everytime I made a change to our plan, our kitchen kept getting longer and longer. Maybe it got to long? Oh well!! Well get there. Ill be glad to one day finally show of the pics of the finished plan.

Thanks for the great feedback/advice.

Our emails must have crossed paths. We haven't picked a refrigerator yet, but the style I am leaning towards is the one with the double refrigerator on the top and freezer on the bottom. I will not do a side by side because I've always felt that those do not have enough room to even put a turkey or pizza box. I'd go back to the traditional style before getting one of those side by sides. Some of those layouts I posted yesterday were options that I thought might work, but then again, I don't know exact dimensions so I'm not sure. I'll keep working on this and I'm sure I'll get to an agreement on what we want. I know celtic said that my kitchen as is just wouldn't work, so best is to come up with a design I love and can live with that will function for us.

Here's another option

One more switching the cooktop and putting M/w by the oven stack if using double ovens

I guess this one depends on if you are ok with Pantry cabinets as opposed to a walk in

Cmill, Have you made any headway ?

I see many good ideas here - you can pick from one or parts of one merged with another etc.

looking at it how I'd want it (taking in your visual also tho) I'd keep the peninsula on the dining side but i'd shorten it a bit so it wasn't so long to walk around (and less walking to put clean dishes away if using the uppers between the stove top and sink) but would still provide a division from the area where your mstr bdroom is. and if standing at the sink /dw you could still see/talk to anyone at the table (future kids still eating breakfast while you start to clean up) or look out the windows over there (i don't remember if you planned windows on that far wall but hoping you are).

I'd want the pantry in the lower left corner - wouldn't want to walk around the peninsula everytime I needed something... there should be room enough in there for a good 4' of shelves floor to ceiling. the far back corner could be deeper shelves for big items (turkey pan, big stock pot etc) and a flat wall side to hang your apron, floor duster etc). i'd think about having the door open inward.
then on the wall from there to the end (by another doorway) i'd put the fridge. that'd make a nice work triangle/area. fridge, stove, sink (prep sink in corner of island there) and next to the fridge (toward the doorway) the wall oven/mw. If there's space there i'd put the mw separate w/counter top between the fridge and wall oven(s). use of mw w/ frozen foods and away from the regular cook area. fridge also can be used w/o getting into cook area.

landing for the oven(s) would be island. baked goods could be put together on the island (water at prep sink) and right there to go into oven.

the right wall of counter would be for spreading out food for a dinner / drink area. if you'd want the area by the wall (hallway) could be used as a small broom closet.

you'd have nice areas of counter top to work on - by the stove, the island and on the counter w/high top area for people to sit up to for a snack, to talk to you, etc. That area could also hold the mw - but i like it by where i am cooking as I use it to heat up water when needed for a recipe, etc. mw could also be in the corner between the stove and clean up sink on a shelf under the upper cabs.

you could probably have the end of the island overhang some so dh could pull up a stool while you cook, making him closer to you than the table or high counter top on the other wall. or for a high chair down the road...

I think you'll have lots of storage and counter space to work on. It also gives you space if anyone is bringing food to a dinner for them to reheat in mw/oven and set out on the right counter top w/o getting in the way of the cook.

If you want to do more massive food storage (like some do) then you could also use the area by your bdroom door for that storage. If not, that'd be a great super linen closet and vacuum storage area.

dh needs to come around to the prep sink idea (tell him I said so... lol!). i'm not usually one for it unless a big kitchen, lots of kids and / or lots of help in kitchen. you meet 1 of those, maybe 2 and maybe all 3 in the future! You are just starting out w/possible growing family = kids in future helping to prep/cook or others coming in to also cook with you on special occasions - it gives access to water w/o crossing the cook's area. with a kitchen the size of yours, it's really needed! better to put it in now than try to redo it in yrs to come. cheaper to do now also. Looking back to the times when the kids were home, it'd make things so much easier! it might be good to put it toward the outer side of the island but still facing the fridge counter. take things out of fridge, turn around and set them on the island counter, prep sink to the right of veggies, peel, chop etc and then just a step or 2 to the left to the stove! it'd also make it easy to use to wash hands for someone coming from outside (work or play) w/o getting into cooking area.

i wish I knew how to make a visual of it like others have here - but I don't! and I didn't know the measurements of your walls - just going by what looks to fit in on your first plan.

pic of mw on shelf under upper cabs (southfinch)

pic of my sister's oven w/ mw over it. If you need 2 regular ovens, hopefully there'd be room to the right of the ovens for a counter space w/mw (if you look closely you can see a tiny corner of the counter top to the right of my sister's ovens), then your fridge and pantry door...I didn't know if you'd need 2 reg ovens, if you were using a cook top or a range (which would have another oven). my sister/bil have a 2nd oven with their range (far left of pic).