Very interesting. I'm no historian, but the recent obsession over bathrooms, and particularly large, extravagent bathrooms is a very new thing. I have a friend that works in the home building business, and he said the latest craze in new construction is for every bedroom to have it's own full bathroom. Can you even imagine the cost and maintenance of that?

I don't get it. But, I don't get many things in home decor and design, so maybe it's just me. I'd rather have bigger closets, halls, and doorways.

I'm familiar with the north shore of Long Island (I think that may be the long island location you referenced), and realtors now call the smaller "country" homes "cottages". I have heard that they are desired by young professionals with no children due to the proximity to nyc. What does your reference say about the square footage? Just curious.

The home I grew up in (on LI--middle class) had 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. And this was a 6 person household. You would think this home would be hard to sell, but no--my mom sold it in 3 weeks (last year). And she had multiple offers!

They don't list square footages unfortunately, but you can get an idea from looking at the picture of the floor plan and the picture or two of the house. Some are 1000 or under.

This is on a similar line of thought that I occasionally ponder about. Our house was built in 1923, in a midwestern/frontier town, but it was built for the bank owner. So it is an interesting combination of small town wealth.

Our town was nothing but a dot on the map in the Victorian era and really had it's main growth in the arts and crafts period. Typical for that time: it is your basic 2BR/1BA house (1200 sq. ft.). But...

- built with better attention than most. (We actually have square corners! I put pinstriped wallpaper up in two rooms and it followed the corners perfectly in 3 out of 4 times.) And the hardwood flooring runs the length of the house, not across. Extra thick plaster.
- A lot of windows (23) that can be expensive.
- Walk in closets. (They had more than average amount of clothing.)
- A linen closet beside the bathroom. (more evidence of "stuff" needing to be stored)
- No maids quarters, but the toilet (stall/no door) in the basement must have been put in for servants.
- Our garage was made for 2 cars/buggies but placed so close to the house that we can only use one side. Carts and old Model Ts had a much tighter turning radius.

The mystery is why our kitchen was unusually large: 10x18 That is a lot of real estate for those days. The kitchen was last redone in the 1940's, but I have seen no evidence of built ins that were starting to be popular. It does have a pantry closet.

On the bathroom front: Most of the older houses around here started without bathrooms, eventually putting one in next the kitchen (or sometimes walling off a portion of the room for the bath). Ours was built between the bedrooms, opposite side from the kitchen. Truly a sign of wealth in those days.

Sounds like my house. Built in 1923 as one of 5 built on our street for the sisters of a local building company. It is wood, approx. 1500 sq ft. 3 bedrooms, 1 bath. It would have been described as modest back in the day. The larger summer homes for the City's wealthy built at the time were built on the other side of the main road. My theory is the sister that hated to cook lived in our house. The other 4 houses built by them had large kitchens. My kitchen was tiny 6x9, with a separate pantry with built in glass cabinets that you passed through to get to the kitchen and then through to a large pantry room with a door that opened to the landing to up stairs. It does have some nice features that other period houses here don't have- beautiful moldings and twin french doors leading out to a former porch( long since enclosed) on the side of the house.The ceilings are 8 1/2 feet tall and the rooms are an ok size.
We raised two children in this house- it seemed like we had plenty of room- we had the converted side porch as a family room and we all shared the bathroom well- no panic in the mornings getting ready when they were teens- If that is what you have then it is normal.
The only thing I have wished for was a big front porch to and a large eat in kitchen.
We have remodeled here and there.We have preserved the floors, molding, most of the glass and windows. We removed the wall in the pantry to enlarge the kitchen leaving the swinging door from the dining room into the kitchen. That pantry was beyond repair long ago so no loss. My frig is still in the large pantry but my table and chairs are in the kitchen!
I have been spoiled- I only like old houses.

I don't have anything to add other than I enjoy your posts pal. Always thought provoking and informative. DD and I still talk about Brutalist architecture after one of your previous posts.

I would say my biggest surprises were maid's quarters in normal sized houses, and the real lack of bathrooms and 5x7 (or smaller baths) in even larger houses.

I grew up with two full baths (+ 1/2) for parents and three kids which was unusual where I lived, and it never presented a problem. Now, sometimes when Ten people are staying there, on occasion, its a little tight but not so much that there are conflicts...we seem to fall into a rhythm. But I am not sure this would be considered "enough" today, in a comparable house.

Large bathrooms are actually not a new thing at all. They might be to folks with average income, but in the Victorian days the truly wealthy had very large bathrooms fitted out as nicely as a parlor on occasion. I have a fabulous book on bathrooms of the Victorian times and it's an eye opener! Hooded tubs, showers with hundreds of body jets, vanities with double sinks, sitz baths, full baths and even private water heaters could all be found in the same room in a Victorian mansion.

Ours had a fully outfitted master on suite which is why I got the book....to figure out how to put it back :) the daughters or guest rooms on the same floor had a jack and Jill bath and the servants quarters had a bathroom as well.

The master had a walk in closet but none of the other rooms did.

Our original owner took his design inspiration from a book called pallisers country cottages :). Most of those cottages exceeded 3000 sq ft and some ten or more. I think the term cottage was used a bit more to describe the setting than the actual house style of the day :) because I certainly don't think of this massive box as a cottage! Well maybe for the Hiltons but not to us heh heh.

Now as to that full bath for each room thing....I have to say I thought it was going to be a nightmare but honestly, it's great. It's actually easier to clean a one person bathroom than a shared room. It's fabulous for guests, allowing them privacy, and when they leave you just clean, shut the door and leave it ready for the next guest. The only extra work involved is the suggested once weekly flushing (better for the plumbing) which you can hear me doing every Wednesday lol.

In general though, bathrooms went from relatively large rooms in Victorian houses that had them, to relatively small rooms after the turn of the century when there were dedicated rooms designed to be a bathroom from the start. Vs. what was done in many 19th c. homes which was to place a bathroom in a room that was not one before. Houses that were designed with bathrooms between the ---say 1880s and the turn of the century which was not particularly common, often had rooms that were bathrooms for bathing but the toilet was separate.

The idea of putting the toilet in the same room where you bathed, (and often adjacent to a kitchen somehow) was for economy. You may have had running water to some kind of tub or taps and drains from already, if you were lucky, so, you stuck the toilet there too.

Your house, Igloo is hardly an example of what was "typical" :)

I may never think of Wednesdays the same way again.

Thank you for this palimpsest - very interesting. I have one of these houses - built in 1919 and commissioned by a local official. It's fascinating to me not just how these houses were originally designed but how they have and have not evolved to suit our changing needs over the years. We are fortunate to have the original plans for the house and it's surprising that the large master bath and closet were part of the original layout. The maids' quarters on the third floor were consolidated into 1 larger bedroom by a PO but the maids shared a sizable full bath. Somewhere along the way a bathroom was added to the first floor under the servants stairs. In adding the bathroom, they eliminated one of the three back doors (but looks like this one went directly down to the basement), but they just sealed shut the door on the outside after walling up the inside and left the still functioning storm door. It's kind of hilarious - you can open the storm door and see the old door from the outside but in the bathroom it looks like there's just a little window that was meant to be there. The only other part of the house that has changed is the kitchen (the fridge is in the old pantry and somewhere along the way more modern cabinets and granite replaced an old banquet) but nothing to the footprint. What's surprising is that even though very little has been changed to the original layout of the house, it's very spacious and perfectly suited to modern living (except for the kitchen). I even have TWO linen closets!

dainaadale - our garage was apparently too small for a PO's old caddy and so to make it fit they dug out a hole in the wall just large enough for the front bumper to slide in... problem solved!

The interesting thing about that pal is that in some ways the whole bathroom thing seems to be somewhat regional. We were just in a lovely home last week in town that was built wIth some "crazy modern" things like two full baths (servants and master suite) but it's a somewhat modest house in the town (2500 sq ft). It was also the first house in town with electricity, dating about five years before us. Our house had bathrooms, but the other houses in town that could be called comparable were not built with large bathrooms as was the smaller home we visited. Quincidently the two original owners were both imports from England, and worked together. So did fashion and kinship play a part in their choices in the bath?????

Savage...I'm so intrigued by the history :). Can you give us a virtual tour? I love seeing old houses and it splints like yours has a great history!

In Petersburg VA, there's an antebellum mansion (now a museum) that was 'modernized' around 1900. I don't remember much about the bath but the shower was a separate area - probably 4x6 - with at least a dozen spray heads arranged vertically on 3 sides & overhead. Sort of like a carwash! The owner at that time was wealthy in the extreme & before he went bankrupt, he threw a luncheon on the lawn for Pres. Cleveland & a 100 gentlemen while the ladies dined inside at the 30' dining table!

The house sets on a hill in the middle of town & originally had a tunnel running from the basement to the street below so the servants wouldn't be seen coming & going. The docents didn't say if the help had their own bathroom or if they had to take a walk down the tunnel.

Thats a needle shower.

Or variation of it called a cage shower

This same topic made me think of things that were once common in a house, but now obsolete.

Example: When I look at homes built mid-century, they loved putting in little phone nooks in the most awkward places. Nowadays people keep trying to decorate them, but they still look stupid.

Or future use: Shelves. I just got done creating a full library with built in shelving. In another generation, there will be no need to store up large amounts of books. Someone is going to probably sigh someday at having "too many shelves".

Any other examples?

Well, only in the most recently designed houses is there a dedicated spot for a TV, and even some of the designed areas are problematic.

Speaking of bathrooms and small houses (not necessarily old houses), I grew up in a house with 1 bathroom (5 people in our family). We made it work. I shared a tiny bedroom (bunk beds) with my sister who was 7 years older than me. Can you imagine how much she must have hated that? haha

My Gramma raised 6 children (one died young) in a house that had no doors except on the bathroom (they were just arches/wall openings). There were two tiny bedrooms that were so small you could only fit a bed, no dresser. I have no idea where all the children slept. I'll have to ask my mom someday.

Not so long ago, it was recommended in new builds of higher quality to have a phone jack (or two) in every room. Not so important anymore.

Re: the bedroom thing, a friend of mine has four kids and was looking at a 5 bedroom house+den / 6BR house, and a neighbor who already lived there said "With FOUR kids? I don't think these houses are near big enough!" ....really?

I'll share a couple of obsolete items built into my 1950's home. These are in a bar separating a small dining area from the living room. I don't think I've opened either one in a couple of years. Hence the dust.....

Rib cage shower :). We almost bought a house just for the shower lol. I just found a reproduction rib cage (Victorian body sprayer) and it can be yours for just 15,000 or if you want the real deal, it's just a sweet twenty grand! Ouch lol. That had best be a good shower!

Deedee our last townhouse had one of those except mine folded up into the wall and had an eight track player :).

We have a phone nook here in the Victorian. It was the ultimate mcmansion accessory of the 1890s.

igloochic - I'll post some pics up when the electrician gives me back my house! I wasn't quite prepared for the ordeal of "just adding a few sconces" and "switching out a few light fixtures" with plaster walls.

I've spent parts of 3 days haunting an estate sale on estate in area that was once well outside the Mpls-St. Paul boundaries but is now embedded in a second tier suburb. Ad said "prominent St. Paul family" and rumors said they were related to a RR baron and were Ivy League educated, etc. Tried to pick up as much of the sociology of the place as I could. 1930s was the rumored provinance, but I think it was the colonial revival of 1920s. White Cape Cod shake siding house with dormers, now with double garage. Overlooked a large wetland and probably was a former farm or hobby farm. Owner sold land surrounding it to subdivisions of 1980s-90s wealthy buyers. Former "barn" is now modified into Dutch Colonial house. May have had servants quarters?

The thing reeks of Williamsburg & Wallace Nutting pretenses. Wood paneling, curved staircase, 18th and 19th century antiques, wide plank repro floor, large formal dining room with multiplane windows.

But the sale crowd also revealed what moderns would consider flaws of the house. Everything moved through a series of narrow necks: long nasty driveway that provoked many troubles during multiple snowfalls during sale, long slim paved walkway to front door, small front hall, one person at a time on stair, little bedrooms, narrow butler pantry passage into kitchen, narrow faux-Palladian porch-walkway under extended roof. Kitchen was probably updated in 1960s or 70s or 80s but was always restrained--Kenmore range with metal hood mounted onto ceiling above, off white painted old cabs, modest refrig., synthetic floor tile that resembles cork. One replacement light fixture over table and one old ceiling fixture and one light over sink. There was a sink in the passage from dining room, embedded in a 5-foot run of metal countertop, very likely original to the house, with frumpy cabs above and below and on opposite side of passage. An eating area with view could hold a family of kids--this may have been an add-on when double garage was attached. A "library" with lots of windows and knotty pine walls and beaverboard ceiling was the casual room. Probably had hunting & sporting prints on walls and akin items lying around. Imagine the owner smoking a pipe and surveying his grounds from there.

We didn't see part of upstairs--closed off, including bathroom(s?).

This was a high-end estate of the pre-WWI period. There were obviously dinner parties and cocktail parties and garden parties and pool parties. Metal lawn furniture and a modest 2-burner Weber grill. Lots of panoramic views of the wetland in distance below. Servants very likely. All the images of Hollywood scenarios from the B movies about New England made just before my 1950s childhood came screaming back to me, esp. the ones about worldly writers working on a manuscript for a Broadway producer.

This place is 15-25 minutes from downtown St. Paul by freeway. Comments by sale attendees used words like "horrible kitchen" and "screwy floor plan." DH said "I can't imagine anyone wanting to buy this place" after digging me out of the ditch for the 3rd time. Charm just doesn't cut it much any more. But I think it's been sold anyway.

Postscript: I couldn't afford the $25,000 Pennsylvania highboy, the $12,000 Early Republic self-storing dining table, or much else, although I coveted it all. Oh, except an 1810 eliptical-front mahogany chest which is now blocking the walkpath in our in-progress new addition. DH is barely speaking to me.

@florantha - re:mahogany chest - funny!

I can't relate to a "country" suburban home. I can relate to real country homes where I live, where the homes are literally in the country surrounded by wheat fields and pastures, home's built in the early 1900s.

All the bedrooms in these homes are large. There are bathrooms on both floors because most are two story.

They all have a long hallway upstairs with rows of bedrooms on each side of the hall.

All of them have a mudroom. There's a w/d in there, sinks, vinyl flooring because of the mud on shoes, and they're a good size room.

All have long front porches. The back door is the door used by family and friends.

Servants quarters? Not at all. lol