Hi,

I agree with Pumpkin Spice. TR from Sherwin Williams is somewhere between Whole Wheat and Camelback. More gold than WW and less green undertones than Camelback to my eye. I didn't realize you have a sage sofa in there. Had to re-read your first post. I thought it was only a hallway and foyer. Did you ever see Desert Tan by BM. A few friends have it in their homes and it's really a nice warm color. Maybe too much yellow for you.

lyban - what about the WW do you not like on my poster? Do you think it is because it is on a computer monitor or maybe like pumpkin spice suggested it is because the existing walls are so peachy?

Pumpkin - I agree with you, I would rather have green undertones than the horrible peach I have right now. I am just trying to find the best neutral that looks good with cream and sage! I am going to see if I can get a sample of TR at SW store tomorrow.

scanmike - whatever color I choose will be going in the 2 story foyer, up the stairs and in the upstairs hallways (which is very open and overlooks the foyer) and also will be continuing downstairs into my family room which has the large sage microfiber sectional couch. In fact the dried basil in my living room is the same green that my couch is. And my TV cabinet in the family room is the same yellow cream as the windham cream in the dining room. See how I was trying to create flow??? LOL...so I just need a neutral color to put in all the areas I just mentioned.

I have a large, open house and used BM Smoky Taupe thoughout the open floor plan. It is a light, greyish brown which works well with burgundy's, sages, gold. It is a soft color with no pink undertones. It is a soft brown/grey. Its an old BM color but they still carry it.

Jane

thanks lane - I just looked at that color online...it looks so gray to me. Do you think it would look good with sages and creams? Do you have pics of your house?

Nutmegxo,

That's the color I told you about. It's in BM Serenity Collection Chart. Yes, they appear greyish, but when on the wall, they are soothing colors. REally lovely. I know people who did their whole homes in those shades. A few to look at are Smokey Taupe 983, Stoen Hearth (984), Bamboo Shoot 1529, Ocean Pebbles 1530. Bamboo Shoot is a favorite of mine. I have seen it in 3 different homes and it looks great in all, despite differences in lighting, decor etc. It's green/bron/grey. One friend has it with sage sofa, burgundy accents and wood floors, the other a brown sofa, red/green accents. Her home is a mix of Pottery Barn meets Martha Stewart. WHen you look at a tiny swatch it looks grey, but believe me the color comes to life on the walls creatinga very serene effect.

Hi! Just a tiny suggestion. BM Rockport Gray or RH Flax.

The dining room looked gray in the monitor on my other laptop. I see now in this one that it is cream.

Not sure I can help any further except to suggest that the green living room appears darker than the ivory dining room so "balance" is tricky since the "visual weight" will be greater with the darker color. IOW standing in the foyer facing the stairs, the living room will always be more assertive than the dining room. It's a light/dark thing in addition to actual color. (I know, crazy-making, which is why I suggested the paint map as a shortcut for seeing the light/dark thing).

Not sure I can help any further except to suggest a very light gray with a yellow-green undertone for the foyer as it will naturally go a little darker and help marry the two colors. Perhaps that could strike a balance for you. But then, you may not like gray.

Check out Sherwin Williams "Latte". It's the most perfect, warm neutral color without any weird undertones.

I think the RH Flax will be too dark for you if you didn't like Lenox Tan. I have Cappuccino in my downstairs foyer/hallway, which is not open and it is darker than I anticipated. I may continue through the upstairs hallwasy in the Latte.
Rococogurl has the same idea as I do. If you look for something greyed down it might flow better. That's why I suggested looking at the Serenity Collection Chart. There are colors with yellow/brown/taupe/green/ all with grey undertones that are easier on the eye. The smaller swatches at BM will make these colors appear greyer than they are. The larger ones on the chart give you a better idea.

rococogurl - I totally get what you are saying! I think a lot gets lost on the computer screen because if you could see a panoramic view of my house it would not look imbalanced..LOL. The dining room has sage curtains in it that are the same green as the living room. And I plan to get yellow/cream curtains for the living room so really when you are standing in the foyer the green room does not appear darker at all. It actually looks really nice and tied together between the living room and dining room and as I mentioned above, the family room features furniture with those EXACT sage and cream colors so I think I have tied things together and set the stage for good flow. The trick now is getting rid of that peach color and finding a neutral that I like that will look good with my sage/cream/burgundy decor. It is morning now and the light is totally different and the whole wheat poster board looks nice. So maybe I am just not going to find a "perfect" color...I definitely do want to sample Tobacco Road as well. The thing is when I look at pics of rooms with TR I like those rooms....that is how I want my house to look. That probably made no sense..lol

my3babypeaches - thank you! I think scanmike mentioned that Latte had pink undertones when she sampled it! Why are these colors soooo confusing! LOL

scanmike - I will check out those colors...I am not sure if I want to go in the direction of gray...but I am open to all suggestions and will check them all out! Like I said my eyes seem to like all the pics of TR and that kind of look so maybe I can work it out somehow.

Funcolors is right then -- as usual. Do what she tells you! LOL

How does the Windham Cream look with the carpet? Just asking...

amysrq - the carpet that is currently in my living room and dining room is from the previous owner and will DEFINITELY be replaced because not only is it pink, but we prefer to have hardwood in those areas. Right now the only hardwood is in the foyer. The carpet on the stairs is new, we got that right after moving in...I keep saying that it looks pink-ish as well but when I take a leftover scrap of that stair carpeting and put it in the green living room that carpet looks yellow. When I take that scrap and put it in the windham cream dining room it looks like some noncolor...not necessarily pink, maybe peach??? lol I will post pictures of that tomorrow morning because my camera battery is charging right now.

Hi,

There is a link to photos of TRhttp://nestingplacenc.blogspot.com/2008/02/paint.html
However, for some reason, it comes up with the photos for a few seconds and then says it moved to nester.com and it is now a site in support of the Haiti Disaster. Maybe it's my computer at work, but try the link. TR didn't work for me. In my home it looked like the gold color in the boys bedroom that is shown, and not the warm neutral color you have seen posted here and in other photos. In my sister-in-law's home it had a slight greenish/goldish cast to it and not as soft as it appears on my monitor. However, it looked better in her open floor plan. Maybe it will work for you. I learned another lesson that viewing colors on computers isn't always a great way to decide on a paint, at least not before trying it out. I bought a gallon since I was so sure TR was it. I had my mixed at SW and they said they used the old Duron formula (which I specified and I even had the formula just in case) so I guess my house just didn't like it. However, the formula was a bit different from Duron's and I quesitoned that and was told that each company has their own pigments. It did match the paint chip though, even if the formula was different. Some people say the TR can vary and be more beige or more yellow. I would have preferred more beige. I was disappointing to say the least since I had planned on it

I was wondering if you might consider using the Windham Cream in the hallway/foyer and going with a deeper color in the DR. Just riffing off Rococo's idea of balance.

You already know you love the Windham Cream and that it works with your color scheme. It might be easier to live with on the large expanse of wall you are considering. Could also be easier to commit to one of the darker colors in a smaller, more contained space like the DR.

You will still have all that flow of color going from room to room.

If you want to see some REALLY great pictures of the SW WHOLE WHEAT, you can find them on my favorite decorating blog, Southern Hospitality (see link below). Rhoda has used SW WHOLE WHEAT, and various other colors on that strip, throughout a good portion of her home. I was very interested in it and had my husband buy a sample. We painted a white poster board so we could look at it for a few days but ultimately decided it was actually a little lighter than what we were looking for. We have a TON of natural light that really washes out the paint color on the walls. Therefore, when we finally paint, we are probably going to go with Camelback or Baguette.

Hi,

I know you think Putnam ivory is too light, but I wanted to show a more accurate photo of it.

scanmike, I had the same experience with SW Blonde that you had with TR. After seeing lots of photos I was sure it was the one, but after getting it in my home it turned into a bright tangerine mess!

I guess the lesson here is you never know how a color will play in your unique situation until you try it. Unfortunately, you never REALLY know until it's on all four walls and reflecting on itself. Painting patches can only go so far.

that is a very nice picture with the putnam ivory scanmike. I think my head as twisted around 100 times now and I am thoroughly confused! LOL

That link to those photos of Whole Wheat is gorgeous!!! That home is beautiful!!! I love the greens and reds and the whole wheat!!!

I agree. Never saw that one but then I was so obsessed with TR, that I didn't pay much attention to Whole Wheat until I was in a frenzied state. By then with the whole TR disaster, I was avoiding anything that was close to TR. Whole Wheat does cast green, but I agree that I would rather have a green undertone than peach or pink. Some people just have a flair for decorating. I think I need more "stuff" on walls, etc. That home was gorgeous.

Didn't have a chance to get back here til now. Couple thoughts...

I had been been saying all along that this carpet has pink undertones. When I put this carpet in the sage green room the carpet looks yellowish. Then I walk across the foyer and toss the carpet scrap in my creamy yellow dining room (windham cream) and the carpet looks dirty...not necessarily pinkish, but it looks "off".

Interesting that the carpet is not showing pink-ish everywhere. Too often people assume they're stuck with something that's an icky color. And sometimes it turns out the icky color is just an illusion of color caused by a combination of things in context and/or lighting -- many people just rip stuff out because they don't know that sometimes those unpleasant colors can be color managed in a way that changes the appearance. Classically with anything too pinky, you can throw more of he same *at it* because that will neutralize it down. For instance if you wanted a red foyer, that carpet would not look pink. Or you throw it's complement *at it*. In your case it's the green undertones in the paint colors that seem to be brining out something more than a pink undertone in the carpet. Throwing a complementary color at the problem seems counterintuitive and sometimes it doesn't work -- you have to try and see what happens. Just like you did.

You mentioned you don't like Whole Wheat with the sage couch, but that was at night, right? Have you tried changing the light bulbs to Reveal? If you like Whole Wheat during the day, which is what I think I am understanding, then changing the light bulbs might help how Whole Wheat appears in the evening near the couch.

I know funcolors would agree that it's a good idea to paint a big sample

Absolutely. That's what I thought you were going to do when I said do it...do it...do it. I thought you were going to paint a whole wall like was mentioned before. But the big samples work too -- just something with real paint a BIG helps.

Did you know you can register "as a designer" with Sherwin Williams and Ben Moore and get the large-sized chips sent to your house for free? Here are the links. Don't tell anyone I told you. ;-)

Sherwin Williams Link: SW Color Sheets

Ben Moore Link: BenM Color Sheets

It's your eyeballs "on the ground" in this color battle and we can only help you from the fringes of cyber world. I thought of one more thing that might help you figure this out...

You've done a lot of work and know far more than when you started. None of that is wasted. It has not been a waste of time. Your DH might think you're ready for the funny farm, but I see it as progressing along at a normal rate -- a normal rate for a though color challenge.

One of the biggest things you seem to have figured out is that you want a mid-tone paint color. Your attraction to Whole Wheat seems to have a lot to do with it's value. Value is how light or how dark a color appears. Whole Wheat is a mid-tone. I know that because of the LRV label right on the back of the chip. LRV is Light Reflectance Value. Whole Wheat has a LRV of 50.

One way to move forward looking for more color options is to look for other wall colors with approximately the same value as Whole Wheat -- colors that have a LRV right around 50.

LRV isn't a rule to follow it's just a guideline. It's a benchmark. Here's more info about LRV if you're interested. How to Use LRV

THANK YOU funcolors!!!!!!!!!!! You are the BEST! You are right I guess I am learning during this process and fine tuning. Just frustrating because I want to fast forward to the RIGHT COLOR!

I think I have A LOT of peach on the walls from the prior homeowner and it is clouding my judgements. I am going today to get a sample of Tobacco Road. I still am liking whole wheat..not throwing that choice away. I like the pictures I see of WW and TR and if I had my way my house would look like those pictures and I think it can.

You are right about the LRV...the midtone colors appeal to me...this house is flooded with natural light during the day (never have to turn lights on during the day) and the lighter colors appeared washed out. My flooring (hardwood as well as awful carpet that will be replaced) is also on the light side and so I like how the midtone colors work with that. I noticed that when I see people's homes that have lovely light colors on the wall, that their floors tend to be darker. It is all about balance again.

I know that I don't want gray...it is just not the look I am going for here. I am confident now that I need a warm color that has green undertones..I just have to find the *right* one.

Thank you ALL for your support and comments because it is moving me along the process!

Okay bear with me here. lol

I sampled Bleeker Beige and hate it...looked warmer on the card...is totally bleek and gray on my walls..now I know why they named it that...hahahahaha

I got a match for Tobacco Road at my local Sherwin Williams...don't know if they matched it perfectly or not but lets assume they did. I would never have considered this color if it wasn't for all the hype that surrounds it but figured I needed to give it some attention.

Not so sure if you can get an accurate read from the computer monitor because it seems to look better in person than what it does in these pictures. Having doubts if I can get away with Tobacco Road blending okay with my stair carpet but putting that aside I love the color. It is warm and has that "lit from within" feel about it and not as green as the WW.

The lady at the sherwin williams store was trying to push Favorite Tan on me...does anyone know anything about that color? It looks very green on the card. I also took a bunch of swatch cards from there that are all beige but they all are starting to look the same to me...Barcelona Beige caught my eye. But I wouldn't know which of the warm neutrals to actually consider.

TOBACCO ROAD swatch painted behind my sage sofa in family room:
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closer up view:
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TOBACCO ROAD painted on side of stairway in foyer:
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closer view:
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I have been playing around a little more with WW and TR. These pics are not showing true colors - my dining room is windham cream - a very pale creamy yellow and that is not showing up in these pictures at all so keep that in mind that these colors are not true here.

Here is a picture with a view of my dining room on the left and the foyer on the right...you can see a glimpse of my front door. TR is on the top and WW is on the bottom.

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Here is a view of my living room on the right and the foyer on the left. TR is on the top and WW is on the bottom.

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Views of the foyer by the stairs...WW is the color on the left and TR is on the right...
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I like both and think you can't go wrong with either. If I had to choose, my eye went to the WW first, but I seem to like softer colors or perhaps it appears to have more brown in it and TR has gold. Either of them look great with the green and the Windham. The TR does pull the yellow wood tones out more in your floors and furniture.

I am also finding that with the two samples I am liking the WW a little bit better. But who knows with monitors being what they are. I think you will have to wait till evening to tell now. Also I would give the whole thing a rest for a few days and just keep looking at the two samples and then decide.

Thank you both...so it doesn't look horrible with that stair carpet? I know it might not be the ideal color for that stair carpet but if it doesn't look like a crime scene then I would like to use either of these colors because I really like them. I more concerned with coordinating with my sage and cream, as long as the color I choose does not look horrendous with the carpet. Does that make sense? lol

One thing to consider with TR ... in my experience, it took on more gold as it went up on all walls. It looked more tan when it was just a patch! Now whether that's good or bad is up to your tastes. I happen to love that "glow" as you so aptly put it, but that's me.

Both the samples look good with your wood. If you know you want one or the other, I'd paint a BIG patch (like a whole wall if possible) of the one you're leaning toward.

I didn't even look at the carpet, so no I wouldn't worry about it. It's such a minor part of your room after all and it's on a different plane, horizontal versus vertical. My eye went right to the wall, not the carpet. Paint a larger portion in your favorite of the two in a few different areas to see how it plays with the light. I agree that TR reads more gold, so it's up to your taste. I think they both look great.It's going to look beautiful.
PS . thanks for urging me to do the Cappuccino in the hallway. It's looking good so far.

I am glad the cappuccino is working for you scanmike! And thanks to you too for all your support here...it is really wonderful to have other people help you along this sometimes frustrating and irritating process...husbands don't have the patience to analyze like we do on here.

I do like both colors and in some shadowy areas they look identical! Hubby seemed to lean towards the TR. I think I would be happy with either of them. The only thing that makes me nervous is the mixing of TR....my local Sherwin Williams did not even know what I was talking about when I walked in there and then they finally pulled out a very dusty Duron swatchbook and did a match to the color...the formula looks similar but not identical to the SW formulas that others have posted on this site. As to how far off my formula sample is, I have no idea...it could be so minor that it would not make a difference. I am thinking maybe in the long run it might be better to have a color that is not a discontinued one. So I need to decide that over the weekend. The closest Duron store to me is 20 miles away. Ironically we used to have a Duron store 2 miles away but they closed down a few years ago!!! Go figure!

Good idea to sit on it for the weekend till you decide. Let me know how it turns out. I know what you have been going thru. Husbands don't understand why we get so crazy.

Hi Nutmeg,

I read through most of the posts and just wanted to throw in one more suggestion. When we built our home 4 years ago I had to pick all the wall colors when they were just grey sheet rock. I was a wreck and was so afraid of making a mistake! I put BM Desert Tan in our kitchen, Camouflage (light sagey green) in our FR and a deep red in the dining room. I wanted a neutral for the hallways, my bedroom etc. I found a color in Traditional Home magazine that I loved the pictures of called SW Irish Creme. I ended up using it along with the deeper shades on that color card for various areas in our home. I can tell you that I have found this to be a perfect group of colors. There are no pink or green undertones. - all are warm based. The colors I used are Irish Cream, Croissant, Raffia Basket, and Sesame. I know they still have the color card for the Irish Cream but can still make the others. I can tell you that If I moved to a new home I would use these colors again. I really thought it was difficult to find a non pink, non green tan/beige. BTW, we have white mouldings. Good luck!

Of everything I've seen WW looks the best everywhere, with every color. I think it neutralizes the carpet the best too. TR will most probably pull more gold as it goes up, and I think WW will pull less green as it goes up because the natural light may wash it slightly.

Thanks everyone!!! I think I am 99% sure I will go with the Whole Wheat!

I've been following this thread checking in to see what you end up with. Back to where your heart lies...TR! I have TR in my home. I was moving to a new state and chose the color long distance. I sent the Duron paint chip to the painter in the mail and he had it color matched. The house was painted a month before I arrived! The stairs were covered in an ugly green carpet,(it has since been replaced) but I just had them paint because it needed to be painted and I wanted to feel like I wasn't living in someone else's home. So TR went up and I couldn't be happier...going on seven years with it. IMO, it is identical to SW Camelback. I have held a large swatch of the CC up to the TR and it is spot on! I guess what I am saying is don't over think! I never even considered the carpet, the oak or anything else. I just knew I wanted that color.

Kmcg85
I wish I could be more like you.I actually was this way with my mom's apartment downstairs, my bedroom and my kitchen. But for some reason the more I know, the worse it is to pick.

Just wanted to post a little update here...I did ultimately decide on the Whole Wheat and spent time this weekend painting my upstairs hallway that overlooks the foyer. I love it!!! I could have never made this choice without all of your feedback so thank you! It does have a greenish cast late at night but it doesn't bother me! I like the rich warmth of the color. And guess what? It actually looks really good with the stairway and upstairs carpet. I was so worried about the carpet looking pink but it doesn't at all! I still need to paint the family room and most likely hire a painter for the 2 story foyer but at least I have my color picked and am happy! :)

I might start another thread in regards to the this color card because I am wondering about using other colors from it in my house!

I am so glad you like the WW. I have it in my den and hallway and love it too. Very warm and inviting and it looks great with anything I put against it. I struggled with the Tobacco Road too but ultimately went with WW. can't wait to see your pics

Great news! I look forward to seeing "after" pics. :)

nutmegxo, did you ever paint yoour room Whole Wheat?

I am looking at either Whole Wheat or Blonde for my foyer and LR. Would love to see your finished photos. :)

thanks!

Biochem101

Hey there! Yes I am still in the process of painting the whole wheat because I am covering all my common areas. I LOVE IT!!! Here are some pictures so far...I just took them now at night so the lighting is not all that good here. I am in love with this color though! It is a nice golden wheat color during the day and at night I can definitely see the green undertones but I don't mind it; to my eye it gives off a sophisticated yet casual cozy look to it. It just is the perfect color to me.

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Very very nice ! It looks lovely !

Red

It looks great! Really nice contrast with the white trim, which I also have. Not too pale, yet not as dark as I was picturing. Which is good. :)

Was leaning toward Blonde, but now I'm leaning WAY more toward Whole Wheat. (Although they both look so good in every picture.)

Thanks so much! :)

LOVE it....great choice!

biochem101 - I really think it depends though on where you are putting it and your other decor. Did you put up samples on the wall yet? My dining room is creamy yellow and my living room is sage green and the whole wheat looks great up against both of those rooms.

Just wanted to chime in and thank you for this thread, nutmeg. I've been searching for that "perfect" neutral for my kitchen and, after painting it the wrong color last year, I'm back on it now and this thread really helped.

Just picked up samples of:

-Tobacco Road (I have admired this one for a very long time, but it may be too green for the space)
-Whole Wheat (pretty sure this will be the one, but I like choice ;-)
-Macadamia (this one may be too neutral for the space)

We'll have to see, I'm going kicking and screaming against going too green... I have a dark green ceramic tile floor that I'm just not crazy about, but it cannot be changed right now so I must embrace it to a certain extent. The floor and the lighting (the big obligatory florescent - ick! - another thing to be changed later) are creating havoc with my walls ;-) and the color there now (Valspar Cottage Linen) is too neutral and not dark enough. I do love it in my studio (next door), however, so the excess paint will be used - it's what I call "tuxedo", plays well with black and white.

I'll let you know which one I choose...

Glad you found something you love and are happy with.

It came out very nicely. I hope you're still feeling positive about the carpet color -- that the Whole Wheat got the pinky-beige undertone under control.

funcolors - yes I am very positive and happy with it...and the carpet no longer looks pinky to me; it is totally "neutralized" now!! I am still not done; my foyer is not complete yet but I have most of it done and I love love love it!

greenthumbfish - if you are wanting to lean away from green undertones, whole wheat may not be the best choice for you. It definitely has green undertones but that seems to work well in my house with my decor and the look I am going for. But it sounds like you are not wanting that in your home. Tobacco Road is gorgeous, I chose not to use it though because I was not confident I was going to get the same color every time I went to have it mixed since there is so much hype and confusion with that discontinued color. Good luck...I hope you find that perfect color!

funcolors - yes I am very positive and happy with it...and the carpet no longer looks pinky to me; it is totally "neutralized" now!! I am still not done; my foyer is not complete yet but I have most of it done and I love love love it!

Your experience is really important for people to take note of.

When something appears to be pinky-beige, it doesn't necessarily mean that it really is pinky-beige. Like I said earlier in the thread, it will either neutralize out or it go off the charts pink. You have to work with it and see what you can get the color relationships to *do* for you.

Too often people react too quickly and think the only option is to rip out whatever it is that appears to be the *wrong* color and replace it with something else. Maybe it needs to go, maybe it doesn't. Either way, I wouldn't jump to any conclusion before looking at possible corrective color strategies.

No doubt one of the more difficult light/color challenges to deal with, but it can pay to stick to a plan of sampling different colors in order to get the unwanted color to shift.