Like many here, my mom was my first mentor in many things. She was as pragmatic about everything as I was and continue being. She would learn what she could about something she wanted to grow, usually from her mother who grew everything, determine if she could easily create conditions they desired, then moved them if they didn't like what she could give them. She would push the envelope to determine what they would accept until she determined her boundaries, or theirs, then she would put them everywhere they would agree to and enjoy the dickens out of them. I did, and still do, follow her "Southern gardening advice" to share plants. It's completely logical. Everything is pruned by Nature, either by being eaten, burned or frozen, so sharing cuttings of something follows Nature's example and plants respond by growing bigger and better. The same goes for dividing plants and sharing the offspring. Most perennials require thinning. Sharing the thinned pieces not only provides room for yours to fill out again, but shares your pleasure with others who enjoy them and provides you a source for replacements should something happen to yours. Her best advice was to keep it simple to keep it fun. That I blindly follow and never regret. I joined the ARS, ignorantly thinking they could teach me how to grow good roses. I did the whole spray, over prune, over feed thing until I began to question the wisdom of constantly using chemicals whose labels warned me of probable eye damage, potential cancer, likely prostate disease and so on. Though not all blatantly stated on the labels, a bit of digging unearthed the known side effects of "long term, over exposure" to the active ingredients. Though careful, accidents can and do occur and I was (still am) too young to deal with the potential risks. Fortunately, I didn't do the chemical intervention routine that long, and I WAS always very careful with them. I hated what I considered "wasting" money on chemicals when it could be more enjoyably spent on new plants and books. I was and am fortunate that there are roses I like and enjoy which don't require the chemical intervention where I live and garden. I know many others aren't as fortunate in that way. I blindly followed the instructions given about how to propagate the roses as a volunteer at The Huntington, figuring they knew what they were doing as they'd been at it far longer than I. Being the heretic I am, my mind began to wander, oops, I mean WONDER, what might happen if I tweaked this or that, and shortly, I took the success rate using their methods of less than half, to nearly a hundred percent each time I struck cuttings. Same with growing roses. Fortunately, I am also a very lazy gardener. Not for those for whom I try to work my magic to create beautiful, sustainable vistas, but definitely in my own. A "past time", "hobby", should never be THAT much work, or it is, well, WORK. That's what I've always done this to get away FROM. So, after studying what roses wanted in Nature, without our intervention, I began permitting them to do their own things with as little intervention from me as possible, while I learned what THEY wanted where I grew them. Those which expressed gratitude for my benign neglect, received all the neglect they seemed to enjoy. Those who demanded more intensive attention and intervention, usually went to other peoples' gardens. A tried and true rule given by my mother and grandmother is, "They ALWAYS look better in someone else's yard". Ain't that the danged truth?! I can't tell you how many times I've admired a rose or other plant in a friend's garden, only to be told, "YOU gave it to me!" I did? Hmmmmm... And, life is SO much more fun without the "cocaine addicted, French mistresses" populating my garden. (no offense to anyone of French descent, honest!) Ralph Moore was probably one of the most influential "mentors" I could ever be blessed with. Every aspect of gardening and many about life in general, was affected and influenced by his folksy, home spun, usually highly scientifically based and always observationally supported comments. On one our first visits, I commented on his effective use of weeds for ground cover, all over the ground, paths, flourishing in the pots... His response? "If you don't plant something, God will!". Well, yes... I commented on how his plants received no real "care". He responded, "We test by stress. If I can't kill it, you shouldn't be able to". OK. Many of his roses they released, if grown in climates similar to what he created them in are quite bullet proof. That was part of his selection process. Anyone can create a beautiful flower. He admonished to create a good plant first, as hanging a pretty flower on it later was rather easy. Quite a twist on the traditional process. He advised to watch Nature, see what she does and how it works, then do the same. He taught to "think like the rose". Consider how what it receives stimulates it to do what it does and why, then do to and for it what it needs to encourage it to respond the way you want it to. How much easier could it become than that? He actually stated to let the rose be your guide, exactly what my Southern gardening ancestors did and taught, but never really said. When I inquired what he thought about using dangerous, expensive chemicals to manipulate chromosomes in breeding, he responded that you COULD, but why would you want to when, "the rose will find the way". When asked about what his thoughts on special rose foods and extravagant feeding regimen, he responded, as he did frequently, "Why? Roses can't read!". So, if the fertilizer fits the desires guaranteed analysis for the desired results, it honestly doesn't matter what the label says it's good for, it should please the roses and like your dog, they can't tell the difference if it's something that agrees with them. Fortunately, both my original mentors and Mr. Moore advocated observation. Watch it and see. The rose, and pretty much any other kind of plant, is going to show you want it wants. I advocate that in pruning. Unless you're trying to force the plant to your will, permitting it to show you where it wants to begin growing and flowering before cutting it, then letting it do it will result in more flowers, faster. If your desire is for landscape color, this will give it to you by the wagon load. You can always clean up any issues when you do your usual pruning. Special needs such as wind or snow require their own attention, but those are things I've been lucky not to have had to consider. I learn as much from other forum participants and those whose gardens I have visited and enjoyed as I may have "taught" others. There are so many right ways to garden and grow roses. No one can try them all. No one can try them everywhere and with all roses and all of us don't have the same gardening styles or requirements from our gardens. Seeing through your eyes teaches me so much. Each one who observes, considers and comes up with new discoveries and knowledge mentors ME. I love the interaction with others who share my rose "obsession", the personalities of each one, their individual garden visions and desires. It is the dynamic knowledge gleaned from the interaction that floats my boat, stimulates my brain and pushes me to push the envelope further. Mr. Moore admonished, "Don't stir the pot, bring something new to the table" about rose breeding and growing, meaning observe, study, learn from what is going on around you. What you read as gardening and rose growing "law" or "rules" is so very often blindly repeated legend plagiarized from other books. Look at what the plants do by themselves and what they do in response to what is provided them and what is done TO them and learn from it. Listen and read. Test it for logic and potential sound reasoning and consider why it may work where it is reported to work. If it resonates well with your style, desires and conditions, test it, try it and see if it works for you. If not, why didn't it? Tweak it, massage it and test your modifications to see if altering it allows it to make your situation better, then share it. Elevating one, elevates everyone. Your sharing your observations and knowledge stimulates mine, teaching me, which in turn stimulates and teaches someone else. Fortunately, both ancestral mentors and Mr. Moore also stressed that knowledge unshared, is worthless. If you know something which will benefit someone else, keeping it to yourself is a sin, shameful. Not that it should ever be forced, but it definitely should be freely given if asked. Being a good steward of the knowledge is its own reward. Fame, praise, reputation, attention are OK, but knowing someone else is better off, their problems or distresses are improved simply because you offered what others shared with you and what you discovered or observed, IS what matters. That is one I have and continue to "blindly follow". Kim

Jenfm, I've always thought about the dwindling daylight hours effects on our fall/winter vegetable gardens. Not just fewer hours, but less intensity as the plants grow. Then there's the seasonal lag through January before things really start the upturn toward spring. It's no wonder the largest pumpkins and squash grow in Alaska and Siberia. Unlimited sunlight on those large leaves! Along with the soil sterilizing deep freeze every winter. I've never had luck with summer squash here. They come up and flower fine, but immediately after flowering the small fruits rot or vine borers get into the stems. I'm going to order some of those Tromboncino squash seeds very soon. Ill, did you say you planted that in the fall? Cucumbers do only slightly better. I don't think they handle humidity well at all (mildew) and get the same bugs as the squash. I'm planning to start some cukes in late Dec to take advantage of the dry season and lengthening days. In a large pot with a trellis. I think you can sow amaranth anytime of year. Once it's established and you let one go to seed it pops up everywhere. I really see the best growth in the spring. It goes to seed more quickly later summer and fall. I've found the red one does better for me. The green one must be very tasty though. It's always eaten up in the garden, by little caterpillars. I love nasturtiums among the veggies too. They pop up every fall like magic.

Here they are!!! [I understand about the exterior wall issue. However, if the sunroom is treated like an interior room, then I assume it has been insulated, etc. and is usable year-round...please confirm] The sunroom is insulated but unfortunately there is no heat run out there so in the winter months (i.e. now!) that door is always closed because of the minus degrees! However, we are eventually going to run heat so that space will be an all seasons room. I would assume that into the plan (as in the summer we will probably remove the door and in the winter it's always closed anyway). [I would definitely eliminate that corner cabinet as it is one of the things that jumps out at me as being too big/massive for the small space. (It feels "wrong"!) Will this be an issue?] is this the one on the bottom right? The big pantry? Yeah I think that it is very large and blocky, we were planning on removing it and putting it somewhere else in the house. [When you say you cannot move the sink & range, would you be able to shift them a few inches?] I think that the sink could move a few inches either way (as long as it was still in cabinetry, I mean when we install the new one we could just use a small extra piece to modify the pipe a couple inches). [When you add the DW, you will have to add additional plumbing...at least a drain and water pipe (hot or cold, depending on the DW). You will have to add that plumbing to one of the side walls since there's no room for a DW on the back wall. So, if you think adding the DW to the left wall is feasible, then why can you not move your sink there?] I think the answer is that we have lived without a dishwasher and will continue to be fine without one for a while, but obviously we need a sink the next year or so :) We had really wanted to avoid working with the plumbing this go-around, however if there is just a really improved way that requires moving it then we will for sure consider doing it now...especially in view of there being no cabinets there during reno. [For now, you could have a standard electric range (which, btw, is less expensive than a gas range), but later you could put in an induction range...many, if not most, who have switched from gas to induction have been very pleased...] I definitely hear your point and it would really make the reno easier, however I really don't cotton to induction cooking. My mom has tried to make the switch and it is just driving both of us crazy! I think that the gas range is something that I can't give up :) [Do you have a pantry elsewhere? Would you like a walk-in or step-in pantry or other?] Our "pantry" is the floor to ceiling cabinets on the bottom right (kindof in the eat-in section of old kitchen), however that is what we were wanting to move (perhaps) as I would probably prefer more counter with uppers and bases than a pantry...I don't know though, your thoughts? The other measurements of the counters are... there is 13"...

Gift opening is done. Dinner and dessert is finished and the day was perfect. My kids all picked out wonderful gifts for me. I only had one thing that I asked for, and my older son found it for me: a PSP paddle so I can play games with someone else. Other than that, I didn't ask for anything. My other two kids found nice gifts as well: my son bought me a blouse and perfume from The Body Shoppe. My daughter bought me an M&M's t-shirt from the M&M store when she went to Vegas, some make up and my favourite candies. My husband almost gave me a heart attack. I knew he was buying me a Canon G12 point and shoot. What I didn't know was he also bought me a lens for my DSLR. A 24 - 105 L IS. I was in total shock! I can't wait to learn how to use it properly now. It's the perfect 'walk-about' lens. At the end of the day, if all they bought me were dollar store gifts because it's all they could afford, I would be just as happy. The spirit of Christmas is giving. Not recieving. :o)