Linda, I've also tried Melatonin. That, too, didn't work. You name it, I've probably tried it. Like I said, I am doing the exercising also but it is not helping.

Been there. I'm 48 and have gone through 3 "spells" of terrible insomnia. I fall asleep at around 10:30 PM, wake up at 12:30 or 1 AM and then I have trouble getting back to sleep and if I do I wake up every hour. Also, very strange, unsettling dreams.
As simple as it sounds, walking has helped me more than anything. When I walk at night, I feel better in every way and during those phases, it did help a bit anyway.

I'm ok at the moment, but I was dreading bedtime every night.

Andierut

I've had trouble sleeping for years. I became perimenopausal as my father was dying of lung cancer and my sleeping problems started then and have lasted 9 years. My doctor gave me Ambien and I became addicted and still am. Sometimes, Celestial Seasonings Sleepy Time or Tension Tamer
Teas help. I don't like to drink them in the summer however. PLEASE DON'T GET ON SLEEPING PILLS AND GET ADDICTED TO THEM, COMING OFF THEM IS HORRIBLE.
Exercise I hear is good although I don't get much.
God bless.

Elaine,
As a previous hard-core insomniac I can tell you of two things that usually helped me. Change where you sleep...and try to sleep somewhere very cool or downright cold.
I used to give myself 30 minutes at night to fall asleep in bed(or get back to sleep after awakening). If still awake I would move to one of several other sleeping places...couches or even the floor, but it had to be near an open window, letting the cool air pour over me...snuggled under a heavy blanket. That would often do the trick. Also used (and still do) use an air cleaner in the room to keep up a steady "white noise" and block out other noises. I would give myself 30 minutes...and if not asleep by then either get up and read or try a new sleeping place.
Tylenol PM or Benedryl ALWAYS works for me now if I have occasional problems.
I lived with insomnia for several years, and then it just kind of melted away. I dont know what caused it or made it go!
Part of what helped, I think, was accepting it, and not trying to fight so hard for sleep. I finally gave up and accepted that I either would or would not sleep that night and just went ahead to read or go on the computer, and tried to ignore the fact that I wasn't sleeping. I think the harder I fought and the more frustrated I got the more elusive sleep became.

Try some of these tricks and see if they help. I really think a relaxed attitude (if you can manage it) helps the most. Sleep dust to you!! Sandie

Thanks. Sandie, the things is is that I am relaxed when I go to bed. I have come to the conclusion that if I sleep, I sleep. If not, oh well. The thing is, like I said above, I'm kind of in a "resting" stage. I am SO tired, that even though I know I'm awake, I can't get myself out of bed. I know that you should get up and do something else. When this first started, maybe I could have gotten out of bed, but its weird now. I don't think I can physically get out of bed. I've done Tylenol PM but they don't work anymore either. I've drank "sleepy" teas, I've soaked in the tub, taken showers, exercised, walked, played a tape of ocean sounds.

I haven't tried going to a different place to sleep, though. I'll have to try that one. I'm actually at the point where I want to ask my doctor to send me to a sleep clinic. I don't know what they can do, but.....

Elaine, I have sleeping problems too...have always been a light sleepe, waking frequently with the slightest noise or disturbance, then unable to get back to sleep....etc. It's such a drag. But what I really wanted to tell you was that my husband went to a sleep clinic and they really did work him over. He was snoring a lot and always tired, and they figured out he had apnea...now has one of those machines, which really does help him. I was impressed with what the sleep clinic did and their follow up was great so maybe you should consider it! Good luck.....Jane

I think going to a sleep clinic sounds like a good idea, if only to get a witness to what you're experiencing. Also try laying off the B vitamins, cause they can be speedy.
My sleep disturbance started a year ago. I used to sleep easily an 8 hour night. Now I fall asleep easily but wake after 5-6 hours with a pounding heart and can't get back to sleep for anything. This coincided with a low-dose birth control pill, which I've just taken myself off of, so have yet to see if there's any relationship there.
The only other thing I've noticed is that temperature has something to do with insomnia. I sleep best on cool nights and wake most when I've got too many covers on. It seems part of the whole body thermostat being out of whack problem.
Good luck!

To all of you: Natural progesterone cream...natural progesterone cream...natural progesterone cream...do I sound like a broken record? That's because sleep is one of the most common benefits of the natural progesterone cream, because it restores the imbalance that causes the insomnia in the first place.

I agree with Lynne. I too use the natural progesterone and sleep very well unless I forget it or decide not to use it. Last night was a case in point. Had not used it for a few days, woke up after crazzy dreams. Put on some creme and went back to sleep without the dreams until the alarm went off. Before beginning it 2 years ago I was up 3, 4, 5 times every night. Most of my problems also began in the late 40's. It also is good for so many other things. I will not be without it.

Elaine and others with insomnia: Disturbed sleep was one of the reasons I decided to take HRT. After 10 years, I stopped HRT this spring, and the sleepness nights returned. Here is the advice I got from my doctor several months ago. It seems to be working for me:

1.) Don't get uptight about waking up. (I used to worry about not falling back to sleep, thinking about how tired I was going to be the next day.) Try to stay calm and relax your body with progressive muscle relaxation. (I'll post later on this, if anyone wants an explanation) 3. Don't engage in any activity that is stimulating to the brain. (No TV or page turner novel!) 4. Recite a poem, meditation, or prayer that takes you to "home base".

The doctor I consulted explained that your brain can be re-energized without a deep sleep. The biggest learning for me was not to panic when I wake up. The doctor said this kind of panic response is one of the major causes of insomnia - worrying about not sleeping. I still wake up most every night, but I am finding I go back to sleep quickly when I follow his suggestions. I am also feeling much more rested in the morning.

The doctor also suggested Benadryl for occasional use. In the past, I also found valerian drops helpful; but I haven't had to use them since I've been following the doctor's advice. Hope these ideas help.

Hi Elaine, As you can see you're not alone in your insomnia. When I was in my late 40's it started for me too. My kids had finally grown up and were out on their own and I had started sleeping through the night for the first time in years.....then suddenly I was not sleeping well. Like you I would fall asleep easily and after 3 hours or so wake up and be unable to go back to sleep. I didnt know I was already into perimenopause, wasnt skipping periods, just having heavy ones that sometimes lasted 2 or 3 weeks. I would get up out of bed and try to read, but after while I was too tired to even think of reading. Sometimes it helped to move to a new spot to sleep, other times that was no use at all. I became clinically depressed and the doctor convinced me the insomnia was part of the picture of depression. Antidepressant meds helped a lot for a few years, my depression got better, the meds were discontinued, and the insomnia came back. By then my periods were erratic, with months between them and horrible hot flashes all the time. I tried Premarin/Provera, had awful side effects and stopped it; then I just put up with everything for a long time hoping it would all clear up.... it didnt. Two years ago I started using OTC progesterone cream and within one week I was sleeping through the night routinely. Last year I switched to a prescription progesterone so my insurance would cover it. I still use just 20 to 25 mg per day....the same dose as 1/4 tsp. of OTC cream. I often wake up to use the toilet during the night but go right back to sleep. In addition, after 6 months of use, my brain started working better, my memory improved and I could concentrate again. I started taking college courses last winter and had no problems, where a year before that I couldnt even read a newspaper article and be able to pay attention to it. Some people might say all my symptoms got better on their own, it was just time after 10years and only a coincidence that I started the progesterone. Not true. I've had two trials of stopping the progesterone to see what would happen. After a week without it, the insomnia starts up again and soon after that my brain fog begins to set in. So, I continue to use it and believe that is a large part of what is helping me. That's my story. I know how you feel, how frustrating it is to be so exhausted and unable to fall asleep and stay asleep. I hope you find some relief soon.

This is very interesting to read everyone's story. It does help to hear that I am not alone. Do you know what is frustrating about that, though? Why doesn't the medical profession acknowledge that this is part of peri/menopause? I have told both the primary and GYN about this sleeping problem. Basically, they tell me it has nothing to do with hormones or menopause. I knew that wasn't true. You don't just "start" having these sleeping problems at this age and it not be related. Especially, when so many women tell similiar stories.

Anyway, I am real interested in the natural progesterone cream. I have not heard this one before. Can someone give me more information about this? Brand names? Do you purchase it at a drugstore? How do you use it, when do you use it, etc?

I had decided yesterday that I am going to stop all of the vitamins, pills, supplements, etc. I want to get it all out of my system and see if that has any effect on me. I was even going to stop my blood pressure pills (wanted EVERYTHING out of my system), but decided to continue to take them. But, everything else will stop for now.

I do have to get more info on the cream and try that. Thanks for everyones feedback and help.

This is my current routine, at 53 and feeling better than I have for many years of not knowing what was wrong or even connecting all of it. I take a daily multivitamin, calcium 600 plus d, vitamin E 400mg and vitamin C 500mg. I also take 1/4 of a 40 mg soy isoflavone tablet from the vitamin section which doesn't have any other additives. Most days I use a small amount of Progestone 900 purchased from GNC or a pharmacy. It took a year or more to get the amounts adjusted and my body calmed down to a stable condition although I felt better almost immediately. At 49 and 50 my own hormones were fluctuating minute by minute. Now I think they have mostly disappeared. As Anne said and I mentioned, sometimes I think I will quit using one or the other and then symptoms are back. My doctors only response to all of this is to say it doesn't work for most women. I tried discussing my changing body with 3 different doctors in 3 different towns as we moved around and got the same response from all so am not impressed with their knowledge. I highly recommend you visit a bookstore and look at all the books and then choose a few that are good references and read, read, read. I also use natural fibers as much as possible in clothing and bedding. I have found that synthetic fibers will make hot flashes worse. I am also trying to eat more healthy than I used to. No caffeine, sodas, very little carbohydrates and lots of water. The spare tire around my waist has disappeared and the fatty layer under the skin is much thinner. Tummy is still present but have always had that, even in high school when I weighed 110 pounds. My cholesterol has dropped, blood pressure is better and I don't get the sugar cravings from before. I continue to visit here not so much for help as to hope I can help someone else. This board has been great for me to get info. I also have a fibroid which has not changed in the 2 years Ihave been using the natural products. My original concern was in any danger from using them without medical supervision but checkups have remained good and I will continue to have the checkups. My bleeding excessively has also corrected itself. I feel enough better that if this is what it takes, so be it. I no longer bark at everyone around for many days each month like I had done. Improved health to you all!

The medical profession does not recognize the problems we are discussing because there is NO scientific evidence based on good research for them to read. Doctors in America are scientifically oriented and will not accept anecdotal evidence. No one has done in depth research on all the aspects of menopause. There is research proving the presence of estrogen receptors on nearly every type of cell in the body, but none to indicate what that specifically means. We have a long way to go.

I'd still like to know where I can get the natural progesterone cream. Can you kind ladies give me some tips?
TIA

Any health store like GNC sells natural progesterone cream. I get mine at The Vitamin Shoppe because they are cheaper. I don't know if we can post brands, but Pro-Gest and Progesta-Care are good brands. I use Progesta-Care because of the pump dispenser. The brands sold at GNC are reliable also. Hope this helps.

I've found Progest at two of my local health related stores that sell supplements, homeopathic remedies, and food items. I've also ordered it directly from the company that makes it, Emerita, both via their web site and by phone. Also found it in the supplement section of the discount pharmacy, ViX.

Ladies:

Thanks so much for the information on the natural progesterone cream. I do believe that I've seen this at my local GNC store, which I frequent at least once a month (on their "Gold Card" Tuesdays).

As much as I really hate to sound stupid here (I guess I'm too old to worry about that any more ;), but just how do you use this cream? Do you just apply it all over your body, like any other type of body moisturizer? Or are there just specific body areas/parts that you apply this on/to?

Since I'm having problems with insommnia as well (and can't afford it; since I work at a 7am to 5pm job), I'm going to go to GNC tonight and pick up some natural progesterone cream!

Thanks for all your input,

Amy Gibson (aka "GatorGirl")
October 2, 2001

If you look at the other posts you will see where others use it. Personally I use it on my forearms, breasts or tummy. I do not use the inside of my arm. Got a "rush" after using it there one time. Since you use such a tiny amount it doesn't make a lot of difference. Some have even used it on the face.

Just going to add my imput. I had to go to work 3 days straight after not sleeping all night. Like you I was very tired and very calm, just couldn't sleep! I tried sleeping pills of all sorts, even went to the dr. and he gave me some but nothing worked! I finally fell asleep one night from sheer exhaustion! When it happened again I waited a week and went back. He put me on Buspar, a mild anti stress pill. I only take half of what he prescribed but it worked! I haven't had a sleepless night since and that was a year ago!

I was going to post about this problem of mine and then I found this thread. I have (well, had) been a very heavy sleeper my whole life. I could sleep through alarm clocks inches from my ear and all kinds of other noises. Now I wake up two or three times a night and I realize what a luxury a full night's sleep is! I'm going to take some of the advice I read in this thread -- relax about it (it really gets me uptight), try to exercise more, and stop putting the heavy bathrobe on top of me at night because I'm waking up hot (hmmmm... that never happened before either).

Two tricks that I use that often work to help me get back to sleep:

1) Move my face to another part of the pillow that's cold and not warmed by my face. (What is it about cold pillows that's so soothing? Even Leno made a joke about it one night. Maybe this goes along with the advice to sleep in cool temps.)

2) Pretend the alarm has just gone off and it's time to get up to go to work but you don't want to get up. Focus on those thoughts. That ALWAYS makes me drift back to sleep pretty quickly. :-)

Jen

For a while I doubled up my .625 premarin and sleep was much much better. Dr said to go ahead and try it and I did for about two years and then switched back to the single dose on my own and seem to be Ok with that now. I did do the melatonin for a time also but I dreamt so much with it that I decided to try the premarin thing to increase hormones on some advise from a friend. It was the ticket!

I just have to post an update. I took the advice of some of the posters and have since been sleeping with the room on the cool side; just 1 blanket and bedspread. I'm sleeping MUCH better! Every time I take a chance and put the bathrobe back over me, I wake up hot during the night. It works! It's interesting though that I NEVER had this problem before; I could always be under piles of blankets and sleep like a log all night. Not any more...

Elaine: I'm surprised that your doctors are telling you your insomnia is not related to your perimenopause! Every time I see my doctor she asks me if I'm sleeping okay. She's told me time and time again that my hormone levels will cause insomnia and that there are things we can do if I start not sleeping. Maybe you need a change of doctors??

Hi Jenn - I'm right with you. I used to sleep under heavy layers of bedclothes all year round but, oh how that has changed. I have to be very careful now and get my bed just right so that I don't get hot during the night. I've discovered how to do this so its not a problem but I need to keep a keen eye on the temperatures and have just the right amount of bedclothes on which in the warmer weather amounts to sweet little! Need a blanket handy though in case it turns unexpectedly cold during the night. The right mix is cool, but not cold if that can be achieved!

It really works though when you get this right and I sleep very well. Just a matter of becoming very aware and striking the right balance of bedclothes. Unless its quite cold, I find it best to sleep without nightclothes as well. I also doesn't pay to have warm things under my bottom sheet either such as my lovely woolrest which has had to come off and my electric blanket, even switched off I can't stand the small amount of warmth coming from the type of fabric.

I feel many ladies would not have the problems they do at night if they could sleep alone and get the mix of bedclothes right.

Regards
Joan

I have been off of HRT for over a month and was wondering if any of you toss and turn a lot more than you use to. When I was on FemHRT I slept very soundly. Now I seem to wake up several times a night because I have to turn to another position. I really don't have the warmth that much, but ocassionally I will throw the blankets off. Mainly my problem seems to be, not being able to find a comfortable positon anymore. Any advice? Thanks Lou

DH loves to cuddle at night. It makes for a long, hot, uncomfortable night. He does it in his sleep--he moves over to my side of the bed right up next to my back and does the "spoons". I wake up dying from the heat. I tell him to move over, he does, then an hour later it starts all over again. What's a girl to do?? LOL

I had terrible insomnia that got progressively worse for years to the point where I was only sleeping 15-30 minutes per night (you just can't survive on that!). I found out my adrenals were woefully low (it nearly killed me). Fixing up my adrenals (naturally) handled the insomnia completely. I use sublingual dhea, sublingual pregnenolone, sublingual licorice extract, B-6, l-tryptophan, amino-plex (amino acids in pill form), no sugar, no caffeine, eating snacks when I need to (including before bed, usually some low-fat cottage cheese). And I'm happy to say that I now sleep 7-8 hours per night regularly, often without waking up. Half the time I wake up to pee and sometimes I have to read myself back to sleep. When I'm PMSing I find I have more trouble sleeping, but it only happens when my adrenals are acting up. It took some years to fix up my adrenals (and they crashed again with recent surgery, but are beefing up nicely now), and the results are great -- I sleep now! (The other symptoms with the low adrenals were too horrible to get into, but the insomnia was one of the problems.)

Cheers,
JoJo

Another suggestion... 5HTP. I am starting on them tonight.

Lots of info on the net. You take one at night. It has B-6 and tryptophan. It's called nature's seratonin solution. Supposedly covers carb cravings, insomnia, mood, anxiety, pms, fibromyalgia and even migraine. I read the books and have also talked with my compounding pharmacist.

I have experience insomnia for 5 years so a full night of sleep would be a blessing to me.

Barb D.

Thanks for the info ladies. Barb, how did you make out last night, or is it tonight you take it for the first time? I will do my research also and will let you know what I find out, too.
Keep in touch. Lou Lou

I took it at midnight and finally went to bed around 2 a.m. and slept straight through till 10:30. My four year old woke me up. I woke up feeling rested and not groggy.
I'm not sure if there is a period of time before mood is better and body feels better. Or if effects are immediate.

My real goal was to get sleep and lessen the carb cravings.
I have not slept through the night in years. Will see if it happens again tonight and report.

Good night!

Barb D.

sounds like you have written my own story, i am 49 and done with menopause, on hormone therepy. i talked to my dr. about not sleeping and all she would say is that it will work itself out, that was 3yrs ago and that is why i am typing this at 2am. i am still looking for answers too. been there, done that with everything, no pills yet. i would love to solve this too, it is no fun to feel doomed. my husband says, ah just go to bed, must be a guy thing. if you figure it out,let me know. i am exhaused too.

For me this is allnew. I was taking FemHRt every other day for about a year and other HRTs for about 4 years, total 5 years and I had no problem sleeping. Now that I am off of FemHRT for almost 1 1/2, I am having trouble staying asleep. I have no problem falling asleep, it is just that I wake so many times during the night now and I don't feel so refresh in the am any more. I am going to do try Barb's idea and get the natural supllements 5HTB. I hope you slept well again Barb.....I have been taking Kava Kava at nigth before retiring, but it dose not seem to be keeping me in that old deep sleep I use to enjoy. Lou

I have to agree with those who say progesterone cream is the answer. It's really a miracle cream.
Linda

Best to remember the old adage that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Menopausal signs come and go and placebo in the form of a store brand cold cream has been shown to be as effective as this "miracle cream," in eliminating them according to the one random placebo controlled study done on this stuff and reported in the Lancet a couple of years ago. Lee refused to participate in any further studies once this result was published.

whats a girl to do? Go get in another bed! ;) No I'm right there with you ladies! Can't sleep half the time myself. I have went all night long some nights with absolutely NO SLEEP! Thank God I don't work outside the home!!! I finally just started getting up and doing chores or something because I would get soooooo aggravated trying to make myself go to sleep. I have ALWAYS been a VERY light sleeper and my DH and DD says I have radar ears which doesn't help me because I hear everything if I don't have my noise maker (as I call it) on to drown it out. Then when I do go to sleep the next night or the next day, I am dead to the world and can sleep and hardly nothing wakes me up because I am so tired. When my sister comes to visit me, she'll ask me, do you ever get any sleep? I don't know how you go without sleep. It just comes in spirts for me with the no sleep all night long. Thank goodness it doesn't happen all the time or I would go nutz because I have to have my sleep!

Jojoz, I had/have the same adrenal problem as you and I'm now sleeping better after restoring them part way and since my periods have stopped. It was my adrenal fatigue that threw me into perimenopause earlier and made the symptoms worse and the duration longer. When your adrenals are weak, your whole endocrine system is affected, but most MDs don't know about it. The person who wrote the book I provided the link for is trying to educate the general public on this, as well as doctors since so many people are living their lives in overdrive most of the time, overusing their adrenals.
When you're adrenals are burned out, you don't sleep well, which furter stresses your adrenals. The adrenals try to make up for the lack by putting out more adrenal hormones around the clock, so your body can't wind down with those coursing through the veins day and night.
Some people are helped by taking magnesium in the evening.

Here is a link that might be useful: Adrenal Fatigue

i am also a non sleeper. as of tonite, i have about 3 hours out of the last 72 hours of sleep. i have probably seen every lifetime movie, read all the books i have, and spent way too much time talking with the dog.
what is a girl to do?
just reading all of your comments, makes me feel that i am not alone, and for that, i thank you.

trin

I'm new to this forum but I'm glad I found you guys cause I thought I was losing my mind. I to am having big time problems with insomia, no problems falling asleep but staying asleep is the problem, awake at 3am in the morning. I was wondering if anyone that woke up during the night feeling that they have alot of pressure in the head like they have a very tight shower cap on. When I wake up feeling like that I feel like my head will explode.I spoke to my Dr. and he says there's nothing he can do for me except HRT and I don't want to take it.

I DID have the same tightening pressure in the head when I wake up bit it went away after I cut out my overindulgence in tea and coffee. I still DO wake up around 3 am. sometimes, I am wide-awake, and I AM ON HRT! I have noticed if I keep up with a high level of calcium -- my GYN said 1500 mg of calcium AND 800 IU of Vitamin D is also necessary. Don't forget to get the type of calcium that has magnesium, else you are really not absorbing the calcium into your system! So everything working in concert correctly has helped me get a solid night's rest but if I forget my vitamins, then the HRT has no effect...

The other thing I have noticed is if I wake up hungry at the magic hour of 3 a.m... I sometimes have not eaten enough for supper (ergo the cure of those who take tryptophan)... I often skip dinner and graze on smaller items... so had to cut that out...

But I am going to try that natural progesterone cream... anyway, Doc says he will only keep me on HRT for a very short period of time, wants me only to take it every other day, but I need to work for a living and I need my sleep. But like I said, it is not working that great anyway... You can try the HRT for a short term just to see it's effect.. I remember taking two pills the first night and it knocked me out and proved that it was a key piece of the puzzle.

I went to a sleep seminar not too long ago when it first started happening to me at age 53, and when the speaker asked for a raise of hands for a) who is under stress
then b) who can't fall asleep and c) who is menopausal,
man, the hands that went up was astounding.. I then realized this is biological and definitely related to the whole hormonal complex..... of course, it pays to stay as calm as possible as pointed out.. perhaps your headache is related to a bit of panic? At the very least if it continues, ask for a blood pressure check... be well

Has anyone else noticed that this problem seems to come and go? After my last post above, I then started having sleep problems again. Just when I thought I couldn't take it anymore, I started sleeping again! Now I sleep well and if I do wake up, I fall right back to sleep. I still keep the room and the bed on the cool side.... not too many covers... but even so I am able to keep a couple of blankets over my feet without getting too hot. I guess that's why this is called a roller-coaster ride!

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