One of the nice things about a Lowe's kitchen remodel is that you get those nifty drawings and accompanying lists of exactly what size cabinets and all the parts that go with them like the finished sides on either side of the stove and sink plus the end cabinets facing us. One of the disadvantages is that often a cabinet that needs to be a little bigger or smaller will cost you big time or extra space will just be covered over with a filler piece.

In general, I would be inclined to go with the local guy. Of course, you'd need to check his work and his past clients to be sure those checked out. You'd need to be sure that what he's supplying and what Lowe's would supply are the same, or agreed upon variations. I don't feel that you need to be concerned with all-plywood construction vs "furniture board." There is hot debate on this periodically, but my conclusion was that furniture board/mdf or whatever they call it is a perfectly adequate for cabinet construction as long as they're using the good stuff.

In your design, it looks like you're not using the undercab space to the left of the stove. I realize that's a very awkward space, but did you investigate corner solutions and find them unworkable? I also notice that you have a lot of undercab shelves vs. drawers. Is this a cost issue for you? If you can, more drawers and fewer shelves are way more satisfactory. I think with your door/drawer face choice, you should go full overlay. Don't worry about the "glass ready" deal on the uppers. Getting glass cut and installed turns out to be really easy. Do you have 9ft ceilings? I'm jealous!

The cost of the finished sides is a bit prohibitive, but it makes it look so much better that we decided that it was worth the money to make it look more "finished". We have asked for finished end panels (and on the large drawers) with the custom option as well. I am hoping that the custom option will look very similar to the rendering from Lowes, but this is the unknown for me. Plus, with walnut, there is a lot of grain to the wood (although beautiful) so it is hard to know how it is going to look all put together in a Shaker style door. At my price point, I am certainly not going to get the "hand selected so all the grains flow" treatment. This is the part that gives me pause. I have seen their work, but just not in a style I am looking at. With the Kraftmaid, you kind of know what you are going to get.

Regarding the design, you are correct that the area to the left of the stove will be wasted. It isn't large enough for a lazy susan type option, and I wanted to add in drawers in that location (those will be for tupperware). As it is now, we have doors and things get sucked back into that dark corner of the cabinets. So I opted for drawers there instead. The island will have larger pull out drawers for pots, a skinny cabinet for cookie sheets and cutting boards, and pull out trash/recycling. We didn't do drawers on the fridge wall because I figured I could put larger appliances in there (currently housed in the island, so that will no longer be an option). We are one of the very few who didn't go into the design thinking that we need more storage. As it is, we will have plenty with the extended uppers (although impractical for day to day use due to height). And yes, 9 foor ceilings. One of the things that I wouldn't budge on was the fact that I wanted the cabinets to go to the ceilingss, much to the dismay of many who looked at my budget with that one requirement.

This will be the one and only time I redo cabinets (in this house anyway) so this is the one thing that i really want to get right! Kraftmaid gets mixed reviews, although there cabinets look nice, those that I have seen. So, I am just torn.

The Kaffe stain is dark enough that it obscures the grain of the oak quite a bit. You could save at least 20% by changing the quote to plain oak. It will have a busier grain, but not as busy as the walnut. And I'd want the walnut quoted in full overlay to really compare pricing, and that ought to add in around 15%. Natural walnut isn't as dark as the Kaffe, so you're talking two slightly different color values as well. Walnut also has a bit of a greenish undertone when natural. The Kaffe on oak has more of a slight red undertone. I wouldn't worry at all about using furniture board. It's perfectly fine.

With all of the info you've given, I would lean towards teh KM unless the local guy is substantially cheaper. KM will have a more durable factory finish as well, which would seal the deal for me if the quotes were close.

Local custom always. I got quotes from HD, Lowes etc. and for our 10x14 kitchen with 9 foot ceilings, the custom option was cheaper than KraftMaid etc. from the box stores.

They wanted a 25% upcharge on a $13,000 quote for plywood for example, while the actual material cost difference was about $800, as I found out when I paid my custom guy for the plywood vs particle board.

Go custom, and work with a small cabinet maker who doesn't have a big fancy showroom and gals at the front with big diamond rings on their fingers 'designing' your kitchen.

IMHO there's rarely anything to 'design' in a kitchen.

Re: finished sides. You really need them to finish your kitchen. It's one of those things you'll forever regret if you don't do it. If you go with the local guy and he does all plywood, then you won't have to worry about it. What's KM's "deal of the month"? When we ordered our cabs (not KM), those finished sides were included "free," which was nice for us as we also had quite a few. When asked by the Home Depot cabinet guy, the company also threw in a "free" sink base. I think these so-called freebies (they're so not actually free!) are fairly common and change monthly.

Well, we went back to look again at the stains of the KM, and I didn't care for the Kaffe on the Oak, it looked really red with almost a black color sunk into the graining pattern. You can kind of see it in the pic that I posted, but in person it was really apparent. Not that it was bad, just not a look that I was going for. So we are instead considering the Kaffe stain on Cherry wood, door style is just slightly different too. Trying to hit on the "transitional" theme moreso than contemporary.

The current freebies are a free sink base, free hardware, $2500 for quotes over $15000. Then a couple of other things like a tiered wooden cutlery tray, pull out drawers in the pantry to the left of the fridge. There may have been a couple of other things too. Total with install is going to be right around 15K.

I really wanted to deal with the local custom guy, as TorontoTim mentioned, they aren't a place that has a huge flashy showroom. It is a family company in business for many years, really liked the cabinet maker we talked to. We walked through their warehouse. But I'll be honest, working on that has been kind of frustrating. We are going "through" somebody so not communicating with the cabinet maker directly except for the one meeting, then all follow ups have been through this other guy. I don't know that he understands what I want, and frankly I am tired of arguing with him. I had given him the full mock-ups provided by a semi-custom line (similar to those I posted above). So he should know what I am looking for, it was right there on paper. But this this weekend I had to explain to him the difference between full and partial overlay and then have him tell me he doesn't think that this is the "standard" with that cabinet company (even though I had emailed him and asked him about it before a week or two ago), and it isn't that big of a deal anyway (who are you to tell me what is and isn't a big deal). Without "real" drawings, how do I know that their aren't a million other things that he doesn't think are that big of a deal. It is the vagueness that is really worrying me. It is kind of unnerving.

I also wish I could change the thread title. I just realized that it doesn't make any sense. This will haunt me every time I look at it.

Alternate title: Help me choose between cabinets options OR Help me pick my cabinets.

There, I feel much better now.

Sorry to hear that you are having such trouble with your cabinet decisions. It hard to believe someone can work for a cabinet maker and not know what full overlay doors are. Can you insist on talking to the cabinet maker himself or find another cabinet maker. You might get some recommendations from GWers if you ask and give your location. Stay positive everything will come together one of these days.

Well, a possible break. A guy who I had called when we first started this process was already booked. I contacted his wife (as a longshot) about his schedule and he actually had a couple of things drop off so is now available. We can get him to do the GC work, regardless of who supplies the cabinets. When I called to schedule the meeting, I said that he could just meet with my husband if I was not available. His response was "Oh no, I don't meet with just husbands, the wives make most of the decisions". I like him already.

So now a moral question...we found the cabinet manufacturer through the GC/PM guy who I have been having such problems with. Is it unethical to approach the cabinet maker with another GC? Like I said, I like the cabinet guy, I think they do good work, I would like to support local business people. I am sure that he thinks that I am a raging, indecisive b*tch since he has been getting the other side of the story, but surely he would want the business. My husband (who works in sales so is familiar with the bidding process and time and effort that needs to be put into trying to win new business) thinks that I am crazy. He is right I am sure, why feel any sense of obligation to a guy who has been such a source of frustration, regardless of the time that he has invested.

ask the new potential GC if he's okay using the cab guy even tho a different GC steered you to him.Just tell him you're a little nervous... He'll handle this for you I bet.You want to know if he's understanding. Anyone I contemplate for work gets questions and that includes discussions of project problems and history.Get your comfort level up. Did you sign anything/ do you think you made a verbal agreement?

I haven't signed anything nor have I verbally agreed to anything because it has taken us forever just to get through the bidding process. He'll say that it is because I can't make up my mind, I'll say it is because he hasn't been listening to me/understanding me from the start. I have reiterated that I haven't changed my original plan from meeting with the cabinet maker, I am just still waiting for a bid to fulfill it. (OK, I did ask for a quote to change the wood type because the stain options that they provided were so horrible that a two year old could have done them). Where we currently stand, he is going back to the cabinet guy to get him to rebid using full overlay doors.

I know that he has put in lots of time and energy on this, and I do feel bad for wasting his time. But I think that much of the wasted time was on his end. I shouldn't have to be arguing this much with somebody that I am paying this amount of money, nor should I be made to feel guilty.

I will absolutely talk to the new GC guy about the problems I have had, and the fact that the cabinet maker probably thinks I am nuts. Now, if I start to have problems with the new guy too, then I will know that it is me ;)