If you do 4 rinses per load in a top loader you will never be happy with front loader rinsing. They use too little water. Consider yourself warned.

My Asko does 5 standard rinses, 7 optional, and I have no issues with rinsing. Perhaps those who are having rinsing issues have front loaders that only do 2 rinses?

You haven't said much about your laundry habits so there's no way to give much guidance except for some general comments.

Are you aware of the differences in using a front load vs a top load? Longer cycle times and if you go with the smaller capacity you might have to do more loads which might wind up meaning more days because of the time involved.

The 4840 is a larger capacity, some feel the other is a better unit, but I can't comment on it. I'd suggest checking the cycles and features and comparing them.

Many, if not most with front loaders will still pretreat stains. Some have good luck with getting out stains with less effort but I think much comes from being used to the machine. There's one or two people here who kneel before their Meiles and worship them on a regular basis since apparently their Mieles do the laundry, fold it, put it away, dress them in the morning and give other physical pleasures!

Comparing a front load to a top load isn't easy if you want to be fair. They're different machines, doing the same basic job in a different fashion.

Personally, I think you're going overboard with 4 rinses per load on a top loader. If you have that much soap to rinse out, you must be way overdosing and that's not good for anything. If you use that much soap in a frontloader, you're going to have troubles.

Maybe it's worth heading to a laundromat that features front loaders and get an idea whether you like the operation of a front loader?

What I'm confused about is why are you replacing your machine? If you're happy with basic TL units, why are you considering a change?

Although Miele is not Nirvana as some would want you to believe, they are certainly solid, albeit very expensive machines that have many happy customers and a very loyal following. Much comes from expectations perhaps. In order to get good results, you need an operator that knows what they're doing. Are you ready to learn a new system? Changing from one to the other (TL to or from FL) has a learning curve.

There is a reason why industrial and commercial laundry units are front loaders...there is a ton of info around on the web why a top loader is bad news for your clothes.
However, if you are happy with the performance of a top loader, it's not going to be the end of the world if you don't change. Also the initial purchase price will definitely be lower although front loaders are coming down in price.
Although as one of the poster's mentions, Miele is not nirvana, as an engineer I would argue that they make better products than anyone else...that goes for vacuums to dishwashers to clothes washer. They are just designed better and built with better materials...
I hear good things about the speed queen although they look like they were designed in the 70's with 70's technology...

LIP

Hmm, I don't admit to idolizing my Miele W4840, but if some owners do, there must be a reason, no?

Really can't lump Miele in with other front-loaders, and not just because they're apparently better engineered and constructed. The big differences, for me, are use of the internal heater to actually guarantee wash temperatures, the choice of wash temperatures, and the longer default cycles, with option to make them even longer. Those are big contributors to wash performance. In theory they shouldn't cost anything extra to provide, and any brand could feature them. But short cycle times are a selling point in the US market, and maybe all three features increase the energy usage numbers, and would cause the manufacturer to lose out on tax credits.

Commercial laundromat FL's are designed for fast throughput, and probably aren't a fair representation of any home FL. And the kind with lots of water splashing around aren't even HE machines, while all home FL washers are HE as far as I know.

Getting back to the OP's question: With the Extended wash option, and maybe some oxygen bleach depending on the load, I find that stains and dirt pretty much disappear. My wife prefers not to use Extended, and uses Shout on food stains and such. Even without Extended, her stuff is overall much cleaner than it was with our old agitator TL. And that's with cheap Sears detergent in the Miele, vs. Tide in the old TL.

Yes, you'd have to get used to longer cycles. Assuming the general-use "Custom" cycle and three rinses (Sensitive option), somewhere between 1:20 for non-extended and 1:50 for extended...though those times get adjusted down during the cycle if the load is smaller. And add some time for heating if washing at a temperature above the hot water inlet temperature. However, if you use the maximum spin speed, as we do for most everything, the shorter drying time will make up some of the difference.

Four deep rinses are indeed a hard to act to follow. But the Miele W4840 does have setup menu options for water-plus and extra rinse. I haven't used them. Also, Miele recognizes that spins, between wash and first rinse, and between rinses, contribute to rinse performance. So if you use Slow or Medium spin, an additional rinse is tacked on. It also adds a rinse automatically if the wash is too sudsy, or if it can't successfully balance for the spin after the wash cycle.

I wouldn't want to go back to an agitator TL after 1+ year with the Miele.

Thank you everyone for your help. I am moving and leaving my old TL behind. Thus a search for new machine. As I mentioned I am tired of pretreating every stain. I wish a machine can just do it. I don't care how long the cycle is. I just want to toss it all in and take it out clean. Is it really so much to ask in this day and age. As far as 4 rinses I do think I used a LOT of detergent but that is because I cannot get stains out. I use warm/warm usually. BTW I tried stain removers but not all stains come out. Also my whites esp t-shirts are not that white after a few months. I just buy new t-shirts a lot. Thank you again and if anyone has a machine that removes stains very well I would love to know about it.

I have one of the Miele's that is 240 volts. I have had Asko's, and many TL, that I cannot remember the make, BUT the Miele is the best I have ever had. I don't have to pre-treat stains. The Mieles get everything out. and before you think we don't have badly stained clothes, think again. We have a farm and wash a lot of clothes. I use the whiter whites setting for most of my whites, and sanitize for loads of really dirty barn towels. They all come out very clean, no stains at all. I would pick the Miele although you cannot buy one now that gets the water as hot as mine does.

My wife and I own the Miele W 4840, and it cleans better than any other washing machine we have owned. The new model W 4842 is now out, and you might want to consider it. The grievance I have with the W 4840 is that glass door assembly is so substantial that its weight eventually misaligns it with the door catch. Miele has a kit for the older W 4840 to retrofit and help to somewhat abate the problem. Still, the weight of the door will cause it to misalign over time and there are no provisions to fine-tune the alignment (Miele failed on this). When our machines are out of warranty, I intend to come up with my own solution and resolve the issue permanently.

Fahrenheit this is the first time I have heard of this problem with Miele. Did the tech say it is common? Do smaller Mieles have this issue? Does it remove food stains without pretreatment? Do you use water + option or regular and how effective is the sanitize cycle to remove stains?
thank you again for all the input

Bela1,

We always pre-treat (old habit) so the loads accomplished have been done accordingly. The smaller Miele washers I am not familiar with, but many here are so they are better answering this question. Our W 4840 is adjusted to have the Water+Extra Rinse selection in its firmware. The Sanitize cycle works quite well, but I have not measured it against trying to remove any particular stain.

If you are contemplating a W 4840 versus a W 4842 there are aspects of the particular W 4840 unit you purchase that you need to be aware of as there are remedies to early issues. The door sagging (which really is not truly resolved with Miele's fix) was approached with a latching roller assembly, and the remaining issue is the latest firmware update. Please read this thread for pictures and more information: Miele 4840/9820 - good things only please

We've owned our units for almost two years now. The sagging washer door did not appear until around a year's time. My conjecture is that the combination of materials used, and the weight of the door eventually seek a settling point that occurs with time. Miele could have very easily provided an external hinge fine-adjustment that even the user could have done without a service all, but they didn't. Please don't get me wrong as the quality of materials in the Miele are above the rest out there. They just have some minor kinks to resolve.