This is not bad, mahlgold. Are you decided on getting rid of the bay? I kind of like it -- adds architectural interest.

I think you need to move your island down toward the snack center and widen the walkway between fireplace and island. 30" is pretty darn tight -- especially with a fireplace there. Are you thinking about eliminating the raised hearth, or keeping it? I still would like to see shelves or something along that hearth wall to break up the brick a bit.

Thanks sarschlos!!!! I really am considering getting rid of the bay. I know most really like it, but I have never been a big fan and in the end I don't think I gain much with it. If I do get rid of it, I pick up at least 2 extra feet on the deck side where I always feel our outdoor table is crowded. It would also give me more room to put our grill on the deck now. Also, I measured and there is not enough distance between the counter and the "ceiling" of the bay to put in a hood. I am about 4" too short I think.

In terms of the 30" between fireplace and island, I don't expect anyone to be walking around that way, but the aisle could be made bigger. I would probably just take some inches off of each end of the island. The way it's drawn is at 9 1/2 ft. There's room to make it shorter. There will be some shelving/mantel/cabs on the fireplace. Just want to get the kitchen layout down first. What I do on the fireplace wall will also dictate if the hearth stays or goes.

Well, in that case, I would get rid of the bay, too! 9 1/2 is a very long island, I'm not sure I would want more than 8 to 8 1/2 because I wouldn't want to walk around (also wouldn't want obvious seams in my counter).

I think you're very close here. Kudos! Have to admit, I'm a little green with envy of your space. :-)

I don't immediately see any problems, but it's one of those days my mind seems not to be firing on all cylinders at once, so I'll reserve a complete opinion til later. Really, I have to see this all on one page, so I will draw that up and post it for others who can't put 1 and 1 together today. ;-)

I agree with Sarah about the space between the island and the fireplace. Not just for walking, but for having a fire. If you're keeping the fireplace, you'll want to keep the option to actually use it...And you don't want to be overheating your island cabinets or completely blocking the view of the fire. You said something once about possibly converting it to gas, and I think that's a really good idea...You'll use it and enjoy it more with less smoky smell and just a flip of the switch to start it up!

I'd be wanting the ref not to be so far away.

Possibly a minor concern with the tripping hazard of the 30" aisle at the low hearth thing, the fire thing, and just a reminder that no one will be able to see the fireplace.

Is there any possibility of raising the fireplace? You had talked about a gas log unit? Could it be merrily blazing away at counterheight?

Hi mahlgold - I've been checking in on you daily but haven't posted except in the other thread the other day....I think it looks great - would you consider flipping the refrig w/ the glasses/dishes cupboard and putting the main DW over in the area by the table (maybe putting a single dishwasher drawer where the main one is in your sketch above)....just some thoughts! Hope you're well - Kristin

Sorry, forgot to change the flooring...

And I still argue that your island and range are too close together, so I gave you 42" instead of 36" aisle between. ;-)

Also, for some reason, I couldn't get a sink wide enough that was single bowl for the snack area. I tried to copy the one from the island, but the software made it weird, so I gave up and put a dbl bowl, just for size reference.

I didn't know if you wanted uppers at the snack end, but the plan I worked from had them, so I left them. Not sure either if you wanted something around the fridge.

1)what if we shrink the island by 6" on either side to start. Could still go smaller.

2) I hate the way that blank wall looks. Obviously it has nothing on it, but it does seem like a waste of space.

3) Maybe the frig on the left side would look better, to the right of the right range window. My only reason for not putting it there was so it wouldn't be in direct view when entering the kitchen. I don't know...don't kitchens have refrigerators? Why is everyone worried about seeing it?

4) If the frig is moved, what about uppers and lowers to the right of the bump out? Could make it a coffee bar type area. Maybe it would frame the sliders better to have cabs on both sides? I think it does look awkward to have that long extension of cabs to the right of the range. Looks off balance to me.

5) Yes to upper cabs over the snack area. I think they should go to the ceiling though. Do you guys think I should run the uppers in front of the sink or do another window?

6) I had thought about the main DW in the snack area and a drawer near the range. Where would you then put the sink/DW? Would you move it to the side wall instead of to the right of the slider?

7) Any thoughts on running the range side of cabs all the way to the fireplace wall? I guess it depends on what I would be doing with the rest of that wall...

Thanks again!!! Am I getting closer????

1)what if we shrink the island by 6" on either side to start. Could still go smaller.
Totally your call!

2) I hate the way that blank wall looks. Obviously it has nothing on it, but it does seem like a waste of space.
Do you mean the blank wall to the left of the refrig? I agree, another reason to move the frig.

3) Maybe the frig on the left side would look better, to the right of the right range window. My only reason for not putting it there was so it wouldn't be in direct view when entering the kitchen. I don't know...don't kitchens have refrigerators? Why is everyone worried about seeing it?
Will it be paneled? It wouldn't bother me - you are looking into a kitchen, whether it's a range w/ backsplash, a paneled appliance or cabinets the view is to a kitchen and people expect that.

4) If the frig is moved, what about uppers and lowers to the right of the bump out? Could make it a coffee bar type area. Maybe it would frame the sliders better to have cabs on both sides? I think it does look awkward to have that long extension of cabs to the right of the range. Looks off balance to me.
YES, YES, YES to all

5) Yes to upper cabs over the snack area. I think they should go to the ceiling though. Do you guys think I should run the uppers in front of the sink or do another window?
Depends on how the left side of the slider turns out

6) I had thought about the main DW in the snack area and a drawer near the range. Where would you then put the sink/DW? Would you move it to the side wall instead of to the right of the slider?
It looks like you have the space to do a corner sink, clipping the cabs at an angle and then have the dw to the right of it - I wouldn't move the sink into the other run of counters as I think you'll use that A LOT for serving, etc.

7) Any thoughts on running the range side of cabs all the way to the fireplace wall? I guess it depends on what I would be doing with the rest of that wall...
I would run it all the way over, otherwise it's wasted space between them

Thanks again!!! Am I getting closer????

I was going to say you could inset a cabinet into the blank wall, but I'm liking your other ideas...More useful. Also liking the fridge moving closer to the 'main kitchen.' This would be a good application for a panel front fridge, as mnhockeymom suggested.

Her corner sink suggestion is good, too...Maybe use your 24" sink (or a new one like it, of course) in the corner so you could fit the dw on the outside wall? With the fridge space already subtracted from the base cabs on that wall, I'd like to see you be able to leave the rest of the storage there intact, instead of separating some to the other wall to make room for the dw.

I was hoping you'd want those end uppers to go to the ceiling. I didn't really like them shorter like that.

Have to go after more wood finish and will be gone til mid afternoon, so can't draw the changes right now. I'll check when I get back to see if others have chimed in with great ideas to implement into the plan.

I've been away -- I'm not following the blank wall to the left of the fridge. What's going on there? Is that the blank wall you are talking about of the fireplace wall? I know you have a small bumpout for the plumbing, but whay the whole span now -- or is that what I'm seeing?

I think I would run the cabinets all the way to the brick wall. It would be a space that would be hard to use and countertop never is. I like the fridge there well enough to take a couple of steps for it -- but, depending on what that blank space is where I am wanting to see a hutch treatment or something, I could see moving the fridge over just a foot or two to give space for a cabinet on the end. Even a bookcase base that is only 10-12" deep and 24" wide turned sideways could give you a bit of landing space on the way outside.

I like bays, but I agree that if it isn't adding anything, don't hang onto it just for the sake of having a bay. I think it's working better without it.

Lascatx, she was just trying to get some 'negative space,' a place to hang artwork or something to look nice from the foyer, but you'll see above that she didn't like it any better than you do. ;-)

mahlgold: I love the way your layout is progressing. I wish I'd sought help from you all during our design phase, but we muddled through and ended up with a workable kitchen.

We faced a similar issue to you and mpsteil: the dreaded brick chimney wall. We abandoned the 50s galley (now laundry & home office) and put the kitchen in the DR, which is divided from the LR by a freestanding 14' x 4' chimney stack with raised hearth and fireplaces on 3 sides.

We're still mulling over how to decorate over pantries and on chimney wall, and I need to re-cover the counter stools with black, but here's what we ended up with:

Rhome, thanks for the explanation. I think a hutch look would be better and still provide interest. I know my look is more traditional, but some of the things I saw and loved display cabinets in were more contemporary. A hutch can also be used to hide that plumbing bumpout -- you just need to be creative with your end treatments.

I would take the snack uppers to the ceiling unless you are trying to accentuate the width of the room. You have very strong horizontal lines there now. Taking them up would balance the wall more -- and I like the tall cabinets. I took mine to 10 ft ceilings! LOL

I like the way this is progressing now. I think the negative space is on the opposite wall (backing to the entry) and the fireplace wall. That brick needs to be broken up -- hanging artwork, a mantel, some display shelves, a tall pottery or glass piece on the hearth, some floor cushions -- a small collections of things -- all are possibilities. There is room for other interesting things to look at and to add warmth and character.

Thanks everyone....I feel like I'm making progress and it's all coming together.

1) If we move the frig to the left of the plumbing bump out, I can then frame it out in drywall as I had wanted long ago. I guess since we're extending the counter on the left side of the range, we might as well extend it to the frig also. Maybe on this long cab run would be a good spot to do some stainless cabs and counters surrounding the range area. Maybe until the end of the windows and then switch to the wood cabs and dark counter.

2) I'm looking for some creative ideas on what to do to the left of the sliders now. Could make it a coffee bar/undercounter microwave area. That would at least put the micro close to the cooking side and snack side. Although I probably have plenty of space where I could put an undercounter micro on the cooking side and a small one in the snack area as well. For now, I'm thinking uppers and lowers, although I don't really want this area to "match" the snack area. Maybe it needs to be a different depth, cabinetry finish, something. I just don't want this wall to look like one long run of cabinetry. Will need to think about this. Maybe this area has some stainless steel open shelving instead of closed cabs.

3) If we're extending the range cabinetry, could probably make the island smaller. Maybe start by taking 18" off, which would make it 8'.

4) For the fireplace wall, was thinking of a tall glass front cabinet on the left side and maybe just a big nice piece of artwork to balance it on the right. Would probably do a thick, chunky wood mantel in the middle. Opinions??? You know I'm not crazy about the whole symmetry thing.

5) If the corner sink can get the DW on the outside wall, all the better. Won't I feel scrunched in there in the corner. There are a couple of extra inches next to the slider to work with if needed.

6)Based on this layout, do you all feel I need to change the direction of the flooring in the fireplace room??? Please say no...Please!!!!

Abbycat9990 - I really do love the look of the fireplace in the kitchen and I think that's why I've had a hard time giving up on a layout that would incorporate it. I think your kitchen looks great!!!!! Love the backsplash around your range.

Any other thoughts, comment, criticisms, design ideas are appreciated!!!!!

I love the look of a drywalled fridge box. I totally want one of these. (Check out the movie No Reservations -- there's a great version of this in that movie; terrible movie, btw.)

I also second the idea of a coffee bar area. I don't really drink coffee but the idea of a coffee bar/bev area with a toaster, teas and coffees sounds really fun. Makes me think of a rich Regency English country home breakfast buffet set up. I keep trying to fit something like this into my set up, with upper cabs to hold teapots/tea cups, stemware, etc., the bev center below, coffee pot and toaster on the counter, then drawers next to the bev center for coffee, tea, cookies, bread, snacks, etc. I think it should look like a little hutch. Here's my inspiration pic:

Inspiration Bev Center I think this is only 36" wide, so it fits my space (although I would do a smaller bev center -- we're not big wine collectors) and larger storage. Since you have the room, you might also want a little bar sink, too. Oooh. :-) With a MW, snack drawers, a bev center, there's no need to bother the cook!

I like 8' for the island much better. I really think you'll want a decent aisle between the fireplace and the island (don't want to cook your island).

Oh, I like the artwork idea. Make it realllly tall to flank the entire side. If you don't have lots left over for artwork, check out the posters at the MOMA or MET museum stores (we have a really huge one framed and it looks great going up the stairwell). Then maybe a smaller mirror over the mantle, and a bookcase on the other side.

Sorry, if I were you, I would still want to correct the direction of the flooring so that it's all going the same way. Otherwise it really feels hodge-podgey, if you know what I mean. But, maybe it's just me.

I think the frig solution will be great - you could really get creative with making it a feature and by bringing it over, it's closer to your work zone - good all around!

To the left of the sliders, why not make it a "furniture-looking piece" - similar to the red hutch in my current kitch? Along with it being a "pretty" thing for the kitch, it could be a real workhorse w/ micro, coffee, etc. (mine has the hidden uc frig in it)

I think extending the counters at the range make total sense and mixing the counters there will be cool! As for shortening the island, I think you'll still be very happy w/ 8 feet!

On the left of the FP, what about a corner glass front unit? I think it would break up the linear nature of the kitchen, draw the eye over there and around the room and provide a wider walkspace by clipping the wall corner by the island instead of having something flat against the FP there.

As for the flooring....I guess I'm not that hellbent on it having to be changed - I think w/ the new layout you can come up with a creative way to transition that floor - am I correct in thinking that it's already different directions (based on your pics above) - yes? To me, changing it is an expense that you may just want to spend elsewhere on a "wow" piece for the kitchen - you might even get your GC to think about putting in an inlaid decorative transitional strip between the two? I just think there's a way to embrace it with some creative thinking!!

I think I've done what you wanted. As always, if not, let me know what to adjust. I obviously didn't do much different, in color or materials, with the area to the left of the slider. I do think it's a possibly good place for the microwave if you're only having one, but it's also a place I don't think you want it out and obvious, since this is what you'll see from the foyer. I think it's one thing to see a fridge or range, but somehow different to look at a microwave...But maybe that's just me.

Oops, I did forget the 'chunky mantel,' so I probably don't have the fireplace wall like you imagined.

I really like this. Couple things that are still bugging me, though. I would even out the drywall sides for the refrigerator box (I know one side is thicker to accommodate the plumbing, but it looks a little off with the other side skinnier. They you could use that space in the wall closest to the range to build in a nice oils/spices niche. Not too close for the heat to ruin the spices, but close enough for easy reach, and they would be out of view on the side of the refrigerator box.

I LOVE the hutch. As far as the MW -- I think it depends on how you use it. Will it be mainly for snacks, or do you cook with it? What about an advantium next to the range? MW, oven & warming drawer all rolled into one. I still think you'll want a cheapo MW in the snack zone.

I would either add a window next to the sliders or carry the cabs along that wall. Could be glass cabs or open storage, but it looks kinda ... naked.

I liked mnhockeymom's idea of a decorative inlay border between the two rooms. Question, though: if you're tearing out your current kitchen, won't flooring have to be changed anyway? Maybe you could take up the flooring and mix the pieces, put it back down going in the same direction with a new finish? or is it engineered?

This is just lovely. I can't wait to see the finished product!

I like the way this is moving. I like the corner sink at the snack end better, and if you are going to look at drawers anywhere, I would put them there. That's where you will have plates and glasses. Any larger bowls, mixing bowls, pots or things that you put inthe washer would tend to be inthe kitchen -- either because you use them there or putting away leftovers, etc.

The end cabinet by the fireplace could be a funky wider drawer over a smaller drawer to get full use of the space. Also in the make every inch count mode -- would the space in front of the plumbing bumpout be deep enough to make a spot for a broom or some other tuck away there?

Just thought of something while seeing the new 3D layout (love it!) - what about using the facade-type bricks and "bricking-in" the refrigerator? Also, I LOVE the idea of the side by the range having a niche for spices/oils, etc.

I also agree that something needs to be put/done on that wall in the snack zone - would a window work for you? I think that would be a great option; otherwise, something funky to dress-up that area.

Completely agree on the drawers in the snack zone - they will give you the most function for that area's purpose.

As for the corner past the range against the brick - I know I'm starting to repeat myself but what about clipping that corner w/ cabinets as well - could be a beautiful spot for some sort of disply...like large vase w/ flowers, etc.

I know that you, Malhgold, are into balance over symmetry, but I'm wondering about the layout of the range, the island, and the sink in the island. If we widen the walls on the left side of the fridge to match the bumpout side, do we move the range down to adjust? If it's 'centered,' do we center it between the brick wall and the fridge? (Which means moving it quite a ways to the left from where it is now) Any move in that direction and the shortening of the island move the range and island more off center of each other. Is this a problem?

If we leave the range where it is, does it need a wall cabinet next to the fireplace, maybe down to the counter, to balance the fridge at the other end?

Wow!!!! This really is coming together. I'm so excited I can't even tell you.

1)I actually went to look at appliances this morning and am leaning towards the Liebherr freestanding frig. It gives me the sort of "industrial" look I like in a frig. It is a top frig, bottom freezer(both with doors). They are coming out with a 36" wide version this spring, so that's what I'm leaning towards. It is tall...81 1/2" high and 36" wide. If I get this frig, I probably won't drywall in it. Would just let it sit in that spot next to the bump out.

2) Then I started thinking, maybe I'd be better off with a 36" range top and then a wall oven/advantium combo to the left of the window. That would help balance out the off centered look. I was thinking of drywalling in the oven and advantium. I am going to start to make myself MORE crazy than I already am.

3) I do think the island needs to be centered on the range. So, I guess it needs to go to the left a bit.

4) Mnhockeymom - I think that's a nice idea, if we angle the end cab against the fireplace. It would help with the balancing of the range wall and would also be a nice focal point. I can totally see a big vase with flowers in it!! If that doesn't work, I do think as Rhome said that I need a tall cab down to the counter. It just doesn't look right with that longer run of counter to the left of the range.

5)Sarschlos - I am keeping the hardwood flooring, just getting it refinished. So.....I would PREFER not to change it, but will do so if it will make or break the final outcome.

6) I had thought about using the those facade bricks SOMEWHERE to try and tie the fireplace in with rest of the room. I don't know that I could find brick that matches. I'm not sure how using a different brick would look.

7) Is there enough space for me to be standing at the clean up sink and have the DW open? I agree, something needs to go there. I think I vote for a window. I guess a casement that would match the ones near the range.

8) Rhome - I guess if we made the opening match the Great Room opening, I'd lose about 18" on that end wall, right. do you think it's worth it?

9) Love the hutch!!! Now I just need to figure out the functionality of that spot vs the area against the wall. If I go with a slightly more contemporary look for that hutch, what if we drywall it in on the other side next to the slider. It would look like it's own "separate area." I agree...I don't think the micro would look good there. Maybe the UC frig should go there, but I guess that depends on what I want the end use of that area vs. the clean up area to be.

Using your reference points:
1) I haven't seen the fridge, but photos of kitchens with fridges just standing there, with nothing around them, makes me think it looks like they forgot about finishing there. JMHO, of course.
2) I think that's an OK idea if that is the appliance configuration you'll prefer, and could be a good use of the weird spot by the fireplace.
4) I'm completely lost on what cabinet should be angled and how and where this fantastic vase of flowers is going. Something I'm missing and need spelled out, apparently clearly and slowly. ;-)
8) 18" loss of uppers, no big deal. 18" loss on base cabs there would mean it comes out of the big bank of drawers between the UC fridge and the corner cab for the sink. It depends on how much you wanted to count on those drawers, or if you're ok with having mostly everything down there in the uppers.
9) Lost again: "functionality of that spot vs the area against the wall." ?? What spot and what area, and what are you comparing or considering? I don't think I'd like the UC fridge in the hutch spot any more than I wanted the micro there. It looks too nice as furniture...Could be more contemporary and could look ok drywalled in, though.

4) I think MNhockeymom was saying the lower cab against the fireplace could become an angled cab instead of going straight into the fireplace wall.

9) I was trying to say that I need to figure out what I want to use that hutch space for vs. what I want to use the clean up area for.

Is the hutch space for dish/glass/bowl/cutlery storage(may be a pain to carry over from the DW), or does that really become the snack area with coffee maker/toaster oven, kids snacks. Or, does the clean up area house all the snacks/coffee maker/toaster oven/UC frig? In that case, I don't really think I can afford to take away the 18" of space.

I think the UC fridge would be fine in the hutch, but I'd rather see it over in the snack area. Check out mnhockeymom's hutch. She hid the fridge with a panel so it looks like a cab door. You'd only know it was a fridge if you went looking for it.

What about using the hutch (drool, drool) as a baking center? Like a hoosier or napanee(sp?). Could even have a slide out countertop for extra counterspace (not that you really need it).

Or make it your wine/bar hutch, with stemware and a wine cooler.

I'd keep anything the kids can make a mess with over by the sink and dw...Toaster oven, etc. I'm not sure you want to create 3 different messy spots. The hutch should be something more classy/dressy/clean...Maybe a nice coffee bar would be ok, but I was originally thinking of it more as storage. Maybe for things that you might want to access from both areas...mixing/serving bowls. Or maybe it's large enough to serve both purposes... serving dishes, and coffee/tea with associated big, colorful mugs behind those glass doors.

Just for context, let's take a look at mnhockeymom's hutch. It's clearly a bev center, and I'm pretty hard pressed to come up with something classier... Have been trying to find a way to steal, er, borrow, the concept for months. :-)

mnhockeymom, please forgive my posting your pictures!

Here is a link that might be useful: Mnhockeymom's Hutch

Mahlgold - I have this overwhelming urge to drive out and walk through your space with you ;-)

Some thoughts:
For the Hutch - I see it as a place for serveware, stemware, entertaining items, non-everyday/extra stuff. By way of example, here's how mine is used (I can't believe I'm posting pics of the INSIDES of my cabs - ugh!)

As for the frig (love your selection) - I don't have the best pic from my last house but I had a freestanding frig that was 'partially' drywalled in (similar to what you'd have w/ the plumbing bump-out) with a cabinet 'box' around it and a display arch above it - since yours will be in the line of sight from the front entry, the arch might be neat - otherwise, I still like the idea of the thin brick (which I don't think has to match *exactly*) - hopefully this shows it somewhat:

For the snack area, I see drawers for dishes and cutlery, glassware in the uppers, also room for paper products (thinking of kids in the family room snacking etc). This is also where I'd see the MW - I think the UC frig should still be on the end as shown above and then I'd have a pantry cabinet going up above the UC frig w/ the micro OR just uppers but a MW on an open shelf there. The only reason I'd put the MW in your main island is if you think you'll use it a lot for your meal prep - worst case, you have one built-into the island and a small, inexpensive one at the snack area.

With respect to the corner sink and DW, I think you'll have more room than you think - my trash compactor is at an angle to my sink and I can stand there and work just fine when that is open and it's being used - in this pic, the compactor is to the left of the sink (on the angle) and the DW is to the right (on the same plane as the sink):

I see the coffee on the counter over the DW rather than at the hutch.

LOVE the idea of a baking center but instead of in the hutch, I'd use that corner at the end of the range wall at the FP - what about having an angled base cab there (great corner storage for mixing bowls, etc) w/ recessed uppers above with either open shelves or glass doors but either way the upper there would be used either for display or storage (canisters, etc) - the counter could still be a great spot for a vase w/ flowers but would serve the dual purpose of a baking spot, which would be much closer to the range where the actual baking will happen - would be fun to put a small marble top on that corner...okay, I'm digressing!

As for the left end of the FP wall, I'd put an angled cab there too - but I wouldn't have it match the range wall cabs, I would tie it in w/ the hutch or even have it it's own color (do you have a fav color that's just you? I'd paint it that!)

Lastly, I'd encourage you to stay with a range instead of rangetop and wall ovens - I just think it helps you keep the balance of the windows and it keeps the space very open, more "unfitted" looking.

Now I must go make dinner or my kids will have a mutiny!!

Sarschlos - we posted at the same time and were clearly thinking along the same lines!!!!

Also, not to go off on a tangent, but didn't you (sarschlos) have a thread about corner prep sinks? If so, I posted there recently - totally spaced that I have one ;-P

First, I have to make clear that I didn't see Sarschlos' post before I posted mine, so wasn't arguing anything she said. (I'm slow at thinking and writing, I guess.) There certainly isn't anything unclassy about mnhockeymom's hutch, and I think the point may be that it is not 'clearly a bev center' from the exterior, since no one would guess what was in there. ;-D It is lovely.

I think what wouldn't be classy is to have the toaster oven with crumbs and p, b, and j out at that location. I see my 'coffee bar' suggestion and sarschlos' beverage ctr suggestion as similar. But I do think I'd keep the UC fridge over by the toaster oven, etc., since it'd be more valuable for bfast and snack items...necessary and used daily...rather than in a beverage ctr, which I see as more of a non 'need.' Unless you want two... ;-)

I can't keep up today! The posts get ahead of me too fast.

I was about to post that I loved the hutch as a baking center -- until I went back and looked at the range placement. Not good. Even worse if you put stacked ovens at the far end of the kitchen.

I think I agree with keeping the range if a range works for you. I bake a lot, am tall and have bad neck/back issues, so I love the look of a big range but have wall ovens. I'm afraid you are going to get too heavy on that side of the room, lose the best counter run you've got and start getting a stacked, boxy feel instead of the more open, edgy, eclectic, somewhat unfitted look you've talked about.

I have a fridge hidden in my hutch also -- as fridge drawers. They help hide someting and are so much easier for me to reach into and find things. I agree that I do not like the obvious fridge inside what was built to look like a furniture piece.

I think I like the openness of the fridge alcove pictured above over the built-in box. Sounds like it might work better with your fridge choice also.

Gotta run -- DH just got home and we're headed to the high school musical tonight.

Step back a minute and think abotu what you've really wanted from all this -- give yourself the Sweeby test and see what passes.

I might try to use the hutch for dishes/glasses/cutlery and other storage items. Not sure if it would be annoying to carry these items over from the DW. Only a few steps I think. Would love to use it for wine/bar area, but we hardly drink. It would get much more use if I stored 2 liter bottles of diet soda there!!!

Here is one photo of a freestanding frig. Also, in the link you can see Tyler Florence's kitchen. He has a Viking that is not surrounded by any cabinetry, so to speak.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tyler Florence Kitchen

OK...took me way to long to get this post sent as DS took over playing his Webkinz on the computer. I didn't get to read from Mnhockeymom at 17:15 thru Lascatx until after I posted this.

Mnhockeymom - come on down. You're only about a 3 hour drive. I'll take you into NYC if you've never been before!!!!

Agreed that the hutch is better left free of snacks/drinks, etc. Possibilities are message center area, which I don't have at the moment and really need along with overflow extra storage. Since I will have so much more space with this kitchen than I do now I can't imagine I'll be in need of "overflow" space.

I'm going to take a step back now(as Lascatx suggested), enjoy some pizza and family time and reread thru the latest posts. I will be back!!!!!

Love ALL the ideas!!!

I know this is just personal preference and I am never trying to talk you into my opinion over yours. To me, though, the Bellacasa kitchen looks like more of a behind-the-scenes pro kitchen...One not part of the more formal living areas of a home. It seems kind of colder and more utilitarian, and I still think the fridges look bare. Love those white hutches, though. Although I don't see a clear shot of the bareness or not of Tyler Florence's fridge, his kitchen also seems more austere and utilitarian with the concrete floors (I think they were...I looked fast), the open racks with rusty pans, etc.

Just not 'my thing,' but you can have whatever you want! :-)

Hi Malhgold,
I just popped in to see how it was going. Looks like your making progress. Can't wait to see how this all pans out.

Just a warning on putting your message center in the hutch -- if you have countertop space, it could wind up being a clutter collector in full view of the entry.

I prefer the drywalled refrigerator box to the stand-alone box. To me, it looks like they forgot to consider the fridge placement and stuck it along the wall. But, that may just be me.

I agree on the message center not going in the hutch - my experience is that it will turn into a choke-point if it is there. If you feel you'd need one, I'd either put a narrow base cab (like 12" deep) along that wall between the two door openings opposite the kitchen table - could put the phone, a message board, etc there and use the inside of the cab for phone books, paper, etc. OR you could put it over in the left corner of the FP wall in some sort of corner unit.

Flooring will look much better all in one direction. Just tell yourself that as the square footage goes up, the price per square foot should go down. Since you're doing the floor, might as well kill the problematic raised hearth.

The fireplace still can't be seen.

Why double-thick wall on one side of the ref?

While I like the look (not necessarily the layout) of the mpstiel kitchen, I really don't get the concept of blocking the view of the firebox portion of a fireplace. I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all - but can somebody explain to me why someone would want to do that?

I don't have any better ideas for the fireplace. Not sure if the base of the box can be raised. Thoughts??

The plumbing bump out on the right side is that thick because that is the thickness of the plumbing bump out right now. I really need to open it up and see if it can get trimmed down at all.

I would think moving the firebox up, if that's what you're asking, would pretty much mean reconstructing the whole thing.

I agree that it would've been nice to be able to come up with an intimate, cozy space at that end for at least a pair of comfy chairs, but that proved difficult. It's now to be enjoyed by the cook or from the island seating. Didn't main fireplaces used to be in the kitchen? ;-)

Can you talk to a mason?
If you use a pre-built gas fireplace?
{{gwi:1625041}}
They vent directly out the back of the wall. The existing opening can be bricked up.

From what I understand from talking to people about my own fireplace atrocity raising the firebox is very expensive.

I think what Bmore is saying is just forget the wood burning fireplace altogether, and put a direct vent fireplace in there instead. It can be vented out the back of the house. I'm assuming it would have to go to the left or right of the chimney.

In order to have full view of the fireplace, it would have to start at 36" above the floor. Seems awfully high for a fireplace. Maybe a pizza oven??

I still think the FP will be fine as is....

Have to point out that you should be having a little chuckle, mahlgold, over the fact that since we're talking about only the FP and its aesthetic appearance, you've definitely made major progress on the layout because clearly it's no longer the main topic :-) YIPPEE!!

I have made major progress and am so grateful to all!!! Did come up with a few thoughts last night as I lay in bed(isn't that when we do our best thinking) but haven't had the time today to actually formulate them here. Nothing major, just some tweaking. Running out again and DH has been gone all down helping his BIL 1 1/2 hours away install a flat screen for the big day tomorrow so I've been the carpool queen!!!! GO GIANTS!!!!

MAHLGOLD - GIANTS????????? You're killing me!

Can you have a gas pizza oven? I thought those were always wood burning for the flavor?