Wow, I missed a lot!

Jillius - Unfortunately, both of those layouts won't work. The space you have the powder room door opening into is a stair case going down to the basement. I couldn't figure out how to show that in the LO. That entire interior wall needs to stay as is. So if a bathroom is tucked in there, either the door needs to open to the south, or the wall needs to be extended and have the door open to the east, though that still gives the dead end problem I'm not the biggest fan of. We also NEED an exterior door on the west. If we don't put it out of the kitchen, then the only other possible option I could maybe see us considering is putting sliders off the dining room, but...I still think even just a door with a small space for coats (we're talking SMALL) would be useful for us.

I've tried thinking of ways to get the laundry to the second floor. Our main issue is actually vents. And tiny closets. LOL! I measured out the one space that I thought might work, and it's not wide enough for our current front loading washer and dryer. Trust me, I'd LOVE to have them up there since it's where the majority of our laundry is generated, but short of ripping apart another floor of our house (which we don't want to do), it's just not possible. The other challenge is that our dryer is gas, so we'd have to run a line up there. Not impossible, just not exactly ideal either.

I do like the idea of a more purposeful storage option in the foyer though! Sort of like this, but obviously to scale the space and reflect the bench.

Tudor Kitchen Remodel · More Info

Then just basically having a space in back with maybe a few hooks and space for shoes to be dropped while quickly going in or out. I don't need a massively huge mudroom on the back, even though I'd love it!

I took Sena's layout and adapted it a bit. I kind of want to keep the fridge and pantry closer to the dining room so it's easier for people to come in and grab things from the rest of the house without having to walk through the kitchen. I also liked the idea of a prep sink, though I think I like it better on the other wall. Basically, this leaves me with an L run that goes pantry - refrigerator - prep/counter, cooktop, wall oven microwave (trying to do the ice-water-stone-fire) thing on one L, and a clean up and storage zone on the other L with space for some upper cabinets for dishes and glassware (we need these for sure), a recycling and trash pull out (maybe we need a smaller one over in the prep zone under the sink instead?), dishwasher, and some extra storage and stuff underneath. It also gives a bit more breathing room in the bathroom, though I'm still not sure how I feel about cutting off that walkway from the front hall and foyer to the kitchen. I need to think about it more. The one REALLY nice thing I like about this is that the bathroom is easy to get to from the basement and kind of more cut off from the house. I actually use our finished basement for my business, and clients could now use the bathroom without having to walk through our house.

If you look at my layout notes, I actually did have doors to the backyard off the dining room, and I moved the basement stairs to be under the stairs going up. That is how the bathroom door was able to open the direction I put it in. It allows the bathroom more privacy and a better layout/shape.

If you can't read my notes, click on the link at the end of my post and then click on the image that opens to make it bigger.

Also, again, as much as you may be at a loss for where the washer and dryer could go upstairs, someone here might be able to come up with something. It can't hurt to post the second floor plan and make sure there is no possibility upstairs.

I think you need a little more distance b/w the fridge and the prep sink in your last LO.

Tried another one, not totally successful about the dead-end issue and pantry is not close to DR, but I personally liked the oven/micro placement in this arrangement. I'm a bit nervous when ovens are close to entries. Maybe you don't bake much now, but that may change as your family grows.

Jennifer, regarding the heavy bench, you can retrofit it with a soft close hinge for toy boxes etc.

@becky - thanks for the suggestion.

Alright, I still haven't gotten a chance to measure the first floor. But, I did measure our second floor bathroom and draw up both a sketch and floor plan, plus take a few pictures of the bathroom, and then also the exterior of our house where the kitchen would be. Hopefully I can post these properly!

First, the exterior - yes, we unfortunately inherited asbestos siding. We hate the look, but we are going to live with it. We very much need to paint though!

This is the view east, directly at the back of our house. That door is the current exterior door off the back porch. The small fenced in area is our AC - we'd prefer not to move that if we can.

This is looking north along that back wall. You can see the window in the current bathroom, plus the sewer vent, some electrical, and then part of the bay window in the dining room.

Alright, second floor bath. At this point, this bathroom is our kid/guest bath. It needs the tile completely replaced soon - it's cracking. There is a laundry shoot directly in front of the toilet, but we don't use it because it's too small. Here it is currently in sketched out form. None of the walls can be moved or openings, unfortunately.

Here's a layout with measurements.

And looking back towards the entry.

The one and only way I can conceive of getting the laundry up here is to basically flip the tub into the linen closet (which is currently a cave we hardly use and difficult to get into) and put the washer and dryer side by side where the tub currently is, and have some cabinets above for storage. But would that be totally strange to have like a 1/3 of the tub in that little nook?

what about stacking the washer drying in the linen closet?

Kitchen measurements!!!! Here they are as best I could do - I have my sketched out diagram, and then just a floor plan with manual measurements as best I could. There a lot of little funky gaps between door trim and corners (like 1-3") that are included. Basically every opening between a room has 5" trim on both sides, except when the door is in a corner (like the bathroom door from the dining room - one side is 5" and one side is less). I included trim measurements in the door measurements.

Sorry this is kind of small, I just tried to get everything in there as best I could. For clarification, if that back porch/bath wall on the western side is extended to line up with the north wall of the kitchen, it would be around 201.5", plus whatever width that wall is between the porch/bath (I think it's about 5.5, but I can't get a good measure on it).

My only concern is that getting rid of that wall there will be a HUGE head ache. The wall between the current dining room and kitchen isn't load bearing. But the wall that runs north south along the kitchen and dining room is an exterior wall...so, yeah.

If I'm missing a measurement or something else would be useful, let me know.

Can you please show a rough sketch of the rooms around your upstairs bathroom? And maybe a picture of the side of that bathroom from the exterior? I am not understanding why the linen closet bumps out the way it does.

Jillius - Thanks for your reply! The two windows you see directly above the porch are bedrooms. The one on the left (north side) is currently the smallest room, and that's my husband's office. It's directly above the kitchen. The window/room on the right (southwest corner) has been a guest room/kid room/office, that's the largest of the 4 rooms. The second floor of our home is a 4 square also - four bedrooms, landing in the middle, bathroom is sort of in between in line with the stair case. Here's a rough layout, but not exactly to scale or with measurements, but it gives you an idea of closets/walls/doors/etc. The linen closet and room on the southwest corner of the house bump out a bit over the bay window in the dining room, so there's no bay window on the second floor. The only other really feasible location for laundry on the second would be to annex some closet space from one of the two closets that is against the landing wall, but none of them are wide enough for stacked laundry or there are vents running through there. These old 4 squares were incredibly efficient about using every inch of available space!

As far as the adding a second floor and porch up to the third (yes, that third floor window is the master, and it would work to be right off the bedroom, the bathroom is on the other end of the house), I just don't think we financially can swing that. Plus, it would just mean so many drastic changes, and I know my husband would probably just say, "so WHY did we buy this house if we're going to tear it all apart?" LOL! A lot of homes in our town do have similar types of additions, so it's not completely outside the norm, but I just don't think we'd do it.

In all honesty, probably my major things I'd like to focus on are a better layout and use of the kitchen space, achieving some type of 1st floor powder room, and getting the laundry on either the 1st or second floor. The more I think about it, the more I think it would actually not be too big of a deal to get it up on the 2nd floor, either in that linen closet, or moving the tub.

I tried bath and laundry in the south corner and come up with this. I think the island can be around 48x36.

I hope you can move the laundry upstairs. That will definitely help with your kitchen LO and having the laundry closer to bedrooms would be a lot more practical. But I just wonder if you move the bathtub, will you be able to help your kid(s) when taking a bath in this new location? Maybe you can consider a slightly smaller tub if W/D would be too tight in the closet area.

how about using the closet space in dh 'office' space for the w/d?

have you tried a LO with a U in the kitchen? a cab run on each side of the center run (with window)?

and split the mudroom/bathroom space into 2 with doorway/hallway between them?

how much space from the front of the toilet (upstairs) to the wall (at end of tub)?

Here's the entry photo...

It's very nice, but I'd still think about the powder room and laundry in this area. I know, I know...but your other choice may be adding on a larger kitchen space, with room for bath and laundry. Do you love the entry enough to pay for an addition?

Older homes have lovely details, elaborate front rooms...and are notorious for small kitchens and utility areas. Many people love the charm, but want the houses to 'stretch' to fit modern lifestyles.

Usually a larger addition (maybe to the west) is needed for kitchen/family room area, as well as bath and possible laundry location. Older homes are not really 'young family' friendly, with today's great rooms and open spaces.

Everything is a compromise...but if you have a small child (and plan to have more children) you might need a larger kitchen/family room space for them. And so you can see them, while you're in the kitchen! :)

OK - I'm going to suggest something that others will probably veto, but may be your best option to give you a kitchen with plenty of work space, a first-floor PR, and keep your beloved Foyer & bench...

Put the laundry room in the basement.

I know, I know...but with a small house (floor space on the first floor) with limitations as in this case, sometimes you have to compromise somewhere. We did it - we put the Laundry Room in the basement in our house so we could have a pantry. The only time I really had issues with it was when I was 9 months pregnant - but then my DH was very solicitous and did most of the running up & down the stairs for me! :-)

If you could figure out a place for a laundry chute, it might make it somewhat easier getting the dirty clothes to the basement - but it might be against Code...it is in our area.

Isn't the master on the third floor? I'm not sure why the laundry isn't in one of the second floor bedrooms? It would make a great laundry room :)

Bushl/Lavender -- Yes, master is on the 3rd. Currently, laundry is in the basement. That's 2 and 3 flights of stairs from our bedrooms. With cloth diapering, it gets old real fast. Lol!

Lavender_lass -- that laundry looks stunning! And of course I'd love to do that. But again, I doubt I'd convince my husband. If it involves moving a wall or having to plumb something outside the scope of our current 2nd floor bath, I'm not sure he'd go for it.

And no, we're not touching that entry. Our living room is small, and the foyer basically acts as an extension of our living room. So even though it doesn't LOOK like functional space, it is.

Here's the thing - do we NEED all 4 of those bedrooms? No. Do we use them currently? Yes. One is a kids room, we have a playroom/office, and one is my husband's office, and one is a guest room. Granted, we could change that...but I'd like to see what options we have without encroaching on those spaces. If in 10 years we're done with having kids and we feel we REALLY need a huge laundry bath makeover, then we can do it then. And maybe that's the attitude we need to take - see what we can do with what we've got right now. I'm guessing the easiest thing to do at this point if we REALLY want laundry out of the basement is put it in the linen closet and find a better way to organize that space (it's terrible right now and we really don't use it for much).

Sena - wow, I really like that! And am I correct in seeing that you actually took off some of the porch? Lol! And that also means a bit less maneuvering of fixtures too, which would help save a bit of $. Hmmmmm. The only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the fridge right next to the wall oven...

So...if you want to keep the powder room...and a small pantry...what about this? You have a HUGE dining room, so maybe you can lose a few feet there?

And possible second floor...just move the office window over a foot or two...and use plumbing from bathroom.

Sena- That half bath looks a little tight! Can you actually sit down on that toilet? Not to be rude, but I'm tall....so I'm always a bit concerned about leg space :)

Jennifer (edited to correct spelling), yes new kitchen in the LO is old kitchen plus porch (made flush with the kitchen)--the red bordered area in the below drawing. Yellow part is bath etc, bump is about 50".

Lavender :--)) I'm both tall and faaat and you should see the PR in our summer house. One can easily wash hands while sitting.

The bath is about the same size as the first example in the below drawing.

Regarding getting the washer and dryer up to the 2nd floor... we just put a 38x40 shower stall in our main bath to allow room for a side by side washer and dryer. I obsessed for about a year trying to figure how to get the washer and dryer out of the creepy basement. We're very happy with the decision. So you could look into swapping the tub for a washer and dryer, putting a shower stall in the linen closet.

We have a 2 and a 5 year old, so I appreciate wanting to keep a tub. We put a handshower on a slide bar so we can lower the shower head to a kid-comfortable level. My in-laws only have a shower. If they need to give a bath to the littlest of grandchildren they put a small inflatable pool in the shower :-)

Here are two suggestions for fitting the laundry on the second floor and for the second floor bathroom when you remodel it. It is totally possible to fit a washer and dryer on this floor, and given how much more convenient it is to have it here instead of the first floor and how much kitchen you are trying to squeeze out of the space downstairs, it just doesn't make sense to put the washer and dryer on the first floor.

However, I do not think just stuffing the washer/dryer into the second floor bathroom is a great plan. You need some maneuvering space in front of a washer and dryer to place a laundry basket down and just to comfortably use the washer and dryer without dropping things in the toilet.

In both of the suggestions below, I made sure it would be comfortable to actually use the machines. Also in both, I moved the bathroom door and made it swing out to maximize the bathroom layout. I figured you'd want to reuse the original door/moldings in the new door location, but you could also put in a pocket door if you don't like having the door swing out.

The first idea's pros:
1) Side-by-side washer and dryer

2. Lots of room to maneuver in front of the washer and dryer
3. Increased closet storage in both the largest and smallest bedrooms
4. The location of the washer and dryer in the hallway is a totally normal placement for a washer and dryer and doesn't interfere with the use of any other space/room.
5. The bathroom tub is fully open on the long side, which is nice when you are bathing children.

The first idea's cons:
a) There is a fair amount of reconfiguring.
b) The largest bedroom becomes smaller, although still a fine size.
c) The bathroom is smaller, although it still retains all its current function (tub, single sink, and toilet).

The second idea's pros:
1) Minimal reconfiguration. Just the bathroom remodel you'd already planned and moving the linen closet door to the other side.

2. Lots of room to maneuver in front of washer and dryer
3. Bathroom gains a second sink, which is nice because this one bathroom is meant to serve 4 bedrooms. When you have more children, a second sink will be especially nice when multiple people are getting ready for school and/or for bed at the same time.
4. The bathroom tub is fully open on the long side, which is nice when you are bathing children.

The second idea's cons:
a) The washer and dryer are stacked (which I know you wanted to avoid if possible).
b) The washer and dryer are in a bedroom. This is weird and will not appeal to buyers. However, you don't use this bedroom as a bedroom and you are not planning to sell this place ever. So this might work well for your family specifically. Since this particular bedroom is so large, you have space for a drying rack and/or a folding table while still using the room for other purposes as well.

In your situation, I'd do the second option. It is the cheapest, easiest, and very functional for you specifically. I would buy a new dryer that isn't gas because you will spend more running gas lines than you would just getting a new dryer. Plumbing is already there, so then electrical would be the only question.

If they aren't hurting anything, I'd also leave the washer/dryer hook-ups in the basement where they are. If for whatever reason you have a sudden change in your family situation and end up moving, it'd be to your benefit to be able to offer buyers a choice of washer/dryer location. Those who want to use that largest bedroom as a bedroom won't have to deal with people entering the room to do laundry if they don't want to deal with that.

Here's another suggestion for the downstairs, assuming the laundry will be added upstairs. This one requires a slight addition (outlined in red over the original image), but you get everything you asked for. Namely, a half bath (in a relatively private, non-weird location off the main hall), a back door with a small closet nearby, and a great kitchen with all the bells and whistles -- multiple work stations, lots of counter space and storage, big windows, a big island with seating, a walk-in pantry, and double ovens. In the kitchen, there is a five foot walkway between the island and the window wall so you can easily pass each other. There are four foot walkways on the other three sides of the island.

Wow, thanks all for the suggestions - you've all spent so much time on this!

Julius - those bathroom configurations are basically exactly what I was thinking of besides the other current options - stuffing the WD in the current linen closet in the bathroom, or moving the tub. The only issue with option 1, which would truly be my preference, is that where you have the dryer is where the main venting/HVAC is for that large bedroom. All in the walls, not the floor. I have no idea how hard it is to move stuff like that, or how expensive.

Benjesbride - thanks for the helpful perspective. We have a jacuzzi in our master that is gigantic that we hardly use, but could certainly work for kids. And actually, now that I think about it, my parents only have their large master garden tub, and the kids (their grandkids live with them and have for about 8 years) use the shower upstairs because that's all there is. I guess I'd be open to the idea of making that linen closet a shower and ditching the tub. Personally, having just a shower on the second floor makes a LOT more sense than just a tub, with the shower off the dining room! I'm just picturing dripping wet teenage boys walking through my dining room and upstairs every day...oy. Even when we have guests, it's annoying. Everyone who is older than 4 or 5 uses a stand up shower either downstairs, or upstairs in our master.

Jillius - I've thought about doing a corner pantry also! I'm not sure I'm in love with where the prep sink is on the island though.

Just a note, I was thinking you'd be doing a tub/shower combo on the second floor. Tub for when then are little, shower for when they are older. You might even install everything now as if it is a tub/shower (tile all the way up the walls, install shower head, etc.), but leave off enclosing it with a glass door till the kids are older so the shower door is not in your way when you bathe the kids.

Jillius- That's a very nice kitchen layout! OP can place prep sink wherever she wants...but working with where the windows are supposed to be, I think you've done a very nice job :)

Thank you, lavender! :)

Here is one more idea for the upstairs. I like this one a lot. It's a quality over quantity approach.

Pros:

1) You gain a real laundry room on the second floor. It is accessed directly from the hall (no walking through bedrooms) and is a legitimate room that you can drop piles of laundry in, shut the door, and leave. No piles of laundry in the hall or in a bedroom.

2) This remodel would be minimally disruptive.

-Nothing in the second floor hall changes at all, which means you don't have to worry about matching the flooring or moldings or doors anywhere in that space.

-The only walls/doors that would change are in closets, where it is not critical for new finishes to match the old. (And you would have extra molding/doors to reuse there anyway.)

-The new bathroom happens to be directly above the kitchen you're planning to gut, making it MUCH easier (and cheaper) to run pipes/electrical to the new bathroom location. It also happens to be almost directly above where several people, including me, have suggested putting the half bath downstairs, so all the same plumbing could be used.

-The new laundry already has plumbing in it (because it was a bathroom), and you can run the dryer vent directly outside through the former linen closet.

3) Everything that would remain on this floor would be generously-sized and logically placed. There would be nothing small or weird or uncomfortable left.

-Currently, the bathroom is a little tight with narrow walking space through it and the bathroom door depositing you right against the sink. That same space would become a LARGE laundry room with a wide walkway (that the door opens into), room for side-by-side washers, and room for a utility sink.

-Currently, the smallest bedroom is especially small. That same space would become a LARGE bathroom with wide walkway, a huge 72" x 42" tub/shower combination, double sinks (lots of storage room in that vanity), and good elbow room around the toilet.

-Currently, the largest bedroom and the smallest bedroom both have closets that are half the size of the other closets on the floor. Those extra-small closets would become one big closet belonging to the biggest bedroom. (The biggest bedroom also gains the former linen closet as a second closet.)

4) Because of the relative lack of structural modifications, I suspect this would cost you a lot less than the option I suggested earlier that gave you a washer/dryer closet in the hall and made your bathroom smaller.

Cons:

a) There is only one, really. You would lose the smallest bedroom. But then you just make your guest room a combination guest room/office, so you wouldn't actually lose function. The luxury of having a guest room just sitting empty most of the time just doesn't make a lot of sense when you could be enjoying an true laundry room and big bathroom on a daily basis.

Oh, also, I had forgotten about your beverage station needs and that you stated specifically that you didn't want seating.

Below is a modification of my last kitchen suggestion to fix that.

-The counter that is backed up to the half bath is 36" deep with upper cabinets/appliance garages running the whole way down the back of the counter. This will be your beverage station and also can house any other appliances you want out on the counter.

-The main walkway in the kitchen is 6 feet wide.

-No addition is needed. This fits in the original foot print, plus the little bit that brings the north wall of the back porch flush with the north wall of the kitchen.

Jillius - wow, thank you for your suggestions! These are great! While I do like the revised kitchen you've suggested, I'm actually leaning a bit more towards what Sena suggested - the U shape with island...but maybe there's a way to get that to work without the addition? I can't really get my mind to make that work though, it would just be too cramped. And I *think* I'd be willing to spend the extra $$ on a small addition in order to get a more comfortable kitchen layout and entry from the back. The more and more I think about it, the more I don't like the idea of cutting off that walkway from the stairs and foyer into the kitchen. I was walking around our house today, and it would be a fairly big change, even though it probably doesn't look like it on the LO.

I LOVE the second floor bath/laundry idea. Love it. I'd probably switch the vanity and bath/shower just based on the window sizes, but otherwise, it's great. I do kind of wonder if it would be possibly to consolidate laundry in that space. I know I know...having a dedicated space is nice! I'm just thinking about rooms and eventual resale - we would lose a bedroom completely. And yes, we do have 5 bedrooms currently if you include the master. I'm just thinking maybe having a small office isn't a bad idea.

Holy cow, so many ideas to figure out! I think I've got a lot to think about!

Jennifer, Sena, Lavenderlass

What programs are you guys using? I've had to draw everything by hand and after my brother broke a bottle of water in my bag while I was in the hospital, my entire notepad and all the drawings are scrap. I'm struggling to redraw them while laid out in bed.

Any changes is difficult as I have to redraw a page for any changes.

I have a very basic version Home Design Interiors or something like that.

Alright, just measured out that little corner bedroom, and there is definitely a LOT more room than I thought. It would be no problem at all to fit a 60 inch double vanity, 60 inch tub/shower, toilet, and side by side washer/dryer with some cabinets over head and room or hanging space. And we'd only have to annex maybe about 4 inches from the closet in the larger bedroom to do it. The wall along the staircase is 100", and because the vent for the room is on that side of the room, we'd probably have to do a more open style vanity. Like this (well, not EXACTLY this, but open on the bottom)

Hampstead, London - Residential · More Info

Here's a layout - no moving windows or anything, just opening up that closet, and stealing a little room from the closet next to it. I know a separate laundry room is what many people would advocate for, but I think in the long run, this would work really well for us too. Plus, it creates a really great sized office. That's one problem with many 4 squares, rooms either way big, or a tad small, but there's never one that's REALLY small that's obviously the office. While this is definitely on the smaller size for an office, it would work for sure. I like this a lot!

And now is where you tell me how INSANE of an idea all this is from a budget standpoint and I go and cry in a corner because I can't afford it. Lol!

I'm sure it can be done in phases since you'll have the new bath/laundry at a different location than where you have them now. So maybe you first finish the kitchen, save and then start with the other project.

@beacham, I'm using the same program Jeniffer uses.

Beacham- So sorry you're in the hospital! I hope you feel better, soon :)

I'm just 'right clicking' the picture on the monitor (with mouse) and choosing 'save image as' then it goes up to the arrow at the top right of the screen, under downloads.

Then I click on the arrow and choose the download I want and 'left click' it to open the picture. Then I 'right click' the open picture and choose 'open with' and it shows 'Paint' as an option. Once you're in Paint you can do a lot of changes, by clicking the choices on the Toolbar. Hope that helps!

For resale purposes, I am not sure you could list the current bathroom as a bedroom and therefore retain your status as a five bedroom house. A single twin bed would take up half the bathroom, and unless you are Harry Potter, I think most would not count that as a bedroom. And considering you have a finished basement that is already an office, I am not sure what an office up here as well truly adds in terms of monetary value.

If resale is the concern, I would consult with a real estate agent what could be in that room that would add the most value. You could do a dedicated laundry room, an office, or even keep it as a second bathroom (with just a shower to make the bathroom roomier). That last would make it a four-bedroom, three-and-a-half bath house, which is quite marketable. Or you could make it a walk-in closet or an ensuite bathroom for one of the adjacent bedrooms. Or split it into closet space for both adjacent bedrooms.

Jillius - thanks for the ideas! After searching for homes in our small Iowa town 5 years ago, I can say without a doubt that real estate agents will list a room of that size as a bedroom. Good grief, we saw toilets in the middle of unfinished basements listed as bathrooms! We saw some insanely ridiculous stuff when we were house hunting. It was scary.

Our house that we found had by far the best of all worlds, and at the beginning, it was definitely move-in ready by comparison to a lot of the other homes we saw. Most houses in our same "market" (1900s Victorian's) are 4 bedrooms with 1-2 baths, usually one of those bathrooms being smallish our similar to ours on the 2nd floor and the other being randomly tucked into some space on the 1st floor (like ours is currently) and then a finished large attic if the people have ever gotten around to it. I'd say maybe 2/3s have finished attics, but rarely are they finished into a master suite of the caliber of ours. Our bedroom totally sold us on the house. We didn't see anything else that even came close. Most of the homes similar to ours do have large-ish additions on the back to either enlarge the kitchen, add a bathroom, or add a family room (or sometimes, all 3). We're actually kind of outliers by NOT having one, though the mostly finished basement and attic certainly help. Part of it is because we happen to live on the one city block that isn't as deep, so just the footprint of our house (and all the others on our side) is a tad less deep than most other homes.

We live in a college town, about a block from the college, so about 90% of the people in our immediate neighborhood are faculty with families. For most, a 4 bedroom is a must since one of those is invariably an office. A 5 bedroom is even better. But a 4 bedroom with an office, 2nd floor laundry, finished attic, and mostly finished basement? That would be like a goldmine.

Currently, our basement is used for my photography business, and I use every square inch of it that I can. Getting the laundry out of there would add even more space, and free up some 2nd floor work space I've currently taken over as well.

/long saga of our house LOL!

Here in our area (Oregon), a room must be 70 square feet or greater (plus a legal egress window, plus a closet) to be considered a legal bedroom. When a room doesn't meet that, but "could" be used as a bedroom, the realtor lists it as "non-conforming," I think.

I like have the washer and dryer in the kids bathroom as that's where a lot of their dirty clothes are generated anyway.

Benjesbride - I'll ask a good friend of ours that's a realtor. Truth be told, we don't plan on moving from this house for a LONG time, and from my point of view, I just think we should do whatever we want to make this house the way we want to live in it for the next 25-30 years. Because by that point, who knows what things people will want!

I agree that if a home is a long term residence, one should do what works best for them. We have no intention of ever moving. We don't have any built-in closets in our bedrooms because our house is small and we wanted the flexibility. I guess technically we have no bedrooms? Wouldn't that be nice if it reduced our property tax :-)

I like the idea of a bathroom/laundry over the kitchen and long term I don't think it would be deal breaker for resale at all. The cost may be a legal bedroom, but the benefit is a new bathroom with shower, a laundry space near the bedrooms and more space for a new kitchen.

Now I just need to convince my husband all these things and SAVE like crazy!

What are the actual dimensions of that smallest bedroom? I bet I can fit everything (bath and laundry) in there without taking any of the closet space, so the largest bedroom can have it.

Also, just a thought, but you might consider turning the old laundry area in the basement into a bathroom so your clients never have to enter your house. It is generally nice to have at least one bathroom on each floor of a house anyway. I imagine when you are working, it'd also be nice for you personally not to have to run upstairs.

Jillius - I can't remember exact dimensions, but most of them are on that LO I just posted I know the wall along the stairwell is around 100" and the corner window by the closet is 15" from the wall, and the little bump out from the closet towards the entry is 50". The north wall is 127". I just know the closet isn't quite wide enough. There probably is a way to do it without stealing closet space from the bigger bedroom that I'm not thinking of. Our washer and dryer are each 27 wide and 30 deep, so they are narrower than a standard 60" tub or comfortable 60" vanity, that's why I put them over in the old closet. The main thing is that there is that vent on the stairwell wall, about halfway across. And we wouldn't move windows or HVAC. Just add plumbing (ha! like that's easy!)

Oh, sorry. I didn't see that you had added those measurements.

I wouldn't write off moving HVAC or windows till you get an actual quote saying it'd be ridiculous for x, y, and z reasons. This smallest bedroom will be essentially gutted. It'll have new tile floors, the wall material (plaster or drywall) around the shower surround will be swapped for a proper waterproof substrate, and you will be opening walls to run pipes and electrical. I would be VERY surprised if the work crew doesn't start off by taking everything down to the studs in that small bedroom. When you are putting that many holes in the wall, it is cheaper and easier and produces a better result to just start from scratch rather than trying to preserve anything.

With the walls open, reframing a window or changing the HVAC a bit is much more affordable. And a kitchen and bath remodel starting from gutted rooms and moving plumbing/electrical around will cost many tens of thousands of dollars. In the grand scheme of things, choosing a layout that isn't your favorite in order to avoid spending a few hundred to move a bit of HVAC (or whatever) doesn't make sense.

Figure out your ideal layout, get quotes, and then adjust the plan if it turns out one of these things is really going to run the price up. (This also works in reverse where you find out that something you were going to do solely because you thought it'd be cheap or save money turns out to cost way more than you thought.)

It is smart to try not to change existing structure unnecessarily, but you never want to be in a situation where a change would actually have been financially feasible and worth it to you, but you assumed it wouldn't be and therefore never found that out.

It really never hurts to ask if it is possible to get what you want, even if you are 90% sure it's not.

Jillius - all true things. Frankly, I have no sense of scope of the cost of any of this. I can price out fixtures and all of that, but labor and plumbing and finishing is the part I have absolutely no idea about. I do know someone in my town who did a full kitchen + 2nd floor bath, laundry, and first floor bath remodel (their house was a HOT mess beforehand) and I'd be curious to hear what the final tally was for them. Since we are in a small town, labor does tend to be cheaper, but finding quality contractors can be difficult. The only other reference point I have for price is from my parents' reno (and they are in a much larger city), and they basically moved their kitchen to another side of the house and created a master bedroom/bath, custom walk in closet, new doors and windows, and got all pro appliances, custom cabs, the works. I'm sure their reno easily was closer to $175K or more.

I've been following this discussion without comment because I haven't had anything to add to the excellent ideas you've received from the more talented folks helping you. I just wanted to say that our previous home had a combo bathroom/laundry on the second floor by the bedrooms. It was never a problem as the only people who really saw that bathroom were us, the kids and the kid's friends. My kids and DH weren't always the best about getting their laundry actually in the hampers but I didn't growl too much about having to do that since everything was right there. No walking anywhere carrying dirty clothes. We had a shelf above the W/D that was long enough for a laundry basket for each of us. When I folded from the drier, the clean clothes were sorted into the basket for each person and then they were responsible for grabbing it and putting their own things away. Sometimes, they just grabbed something clean right from the basket without putting them away. Again, fine with me as long as their basket wasn't overflowing. If it got to that point and was bugging me, I'd just move their basket to their room. Again, easy, as the bedroom doors were only a few steps away.

My long-winded way of saying that while a separate laundry room would be nice, if it is going to cost more than you'd like to spend or take up space you need for something else, don't sweat having it all in one room. As long as you have a nice powder room for guests on the main floor, you're fine, imho.

And another vote for not changing your lovely woodworking in your foyer. My former home also had a similar foyer and no convenience would have been worth ripping out any of the lovely finish details in it for me. Some things are aesthetically pleasing enough to put up with a bit of inconvenience, imho, especially if you love it enough where it makes you smile each time you loo at it.

Thanks for your input funkycamper, I appreciate it! I did have a longer conversation with a real estate agent today who is a good friend of ours and also has an older home (with a SUPER funky layout) and he basically said "go for it." In particular, freeing up the space where the current laundry is in our basement actually makes it possible to add another powder room down there and changing area for my photography clients, so it's kind of a win win all around. Now...I need to convince my husband and save like a crazy person!