Is there a reason not to do a range instead of a cooktop?

Thanks course411 :)
My main reason was that I have more room along the front wall and I wanted enough room to store pots and pans near the cooktop....but maybe I’m over thinking it? Lol

It's a good spot for them. There's counter to plop turkeys onto if needed. And really, it isn't that far from the rest of the kitchen. Bonus: being slightly hidden means you don't have to get matchy matchy with them--you can get whatever works best regardless of appearance!

Just make sure the aisle/galley has enough space for one to stand in front at a safe distance with the door down (unless you get a door than opens to/hinged on the left.)

The wall ovens don't necessarily need to be in the middle of the primary work zones and, in many cases, they work better on the periphery. However, yours are pretty far from everything. In addition, the aisle they're on appears to be too narrow for them...it looks like less than 36" (33" to 34.5" wide).

If that's a dead-end with a wall right after it, it might be OK, but if there is traffic passing through there, it's much too narrow.

I hadn't considered how deep the isle needs to be...there might be some wiggle room with the pantry...I'll talk to our draftsman/architect. The area is 3 feet as it is.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts :)

Buehl, what do you think about a single oven gas range and then a single wall oven in the other area by the pantry? ...since it it so far ...do you think that would be better? other ideas?

Thanks again! ~ Rachel

I think it's a fine space but you do need way more than 3 feet. I wouldn't give up drawer space by your stove.

Regarding your aisle measurements...they don't appear to be measured correctly. Aisles are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest, not cabinet-to-cabinet. The items sticking out the farthest into the aisle could be an appliance handle, a wall, or even the counters.

24" deep cabinets are for the boxes only, not the doors/drawer fronts, hardware, and counter overhang.

Counters overhang cabinet boxes by around 1.5". (To cover the doors/drawer fronts and hardware and to protect your cabinet boxes and doors/drawer fronts from damage from spills.)

You appear to be measuring your aisles cabinet-to-cabinet, so that means your aisles are narrower than they appear in your layout:

• The aisle b/w your island and wall is really only 33" when you account for the 1.5" overhang on each side (36" - 1.5" - 1.5" = 33")...and that's not accounting for the range and refrigerator handles!
• If the refrigerator is a counter-depth refrigerator, then subtract another 4" to 5" from the aisle measurement. Counter-depth refrigerators are only counter-depth in the box/carcass -- the doors and handles are not included in the "counter-depth" label. Doors & handles stick out b/w 4" and 6" beyond the box, depending on the particular model. That's b/c in order to open fully, the doors must stick out beyond the items adjacent to them - walls, counters, other cabinets, etc.
• If it's a built-in, then they're usually as deep as the counters, so you can count them as the same as the counter depth.
• The range or rangetop will also stick out into the aisle, so account for that as well.
• To determine how deep your appliances are once installed, check the specs for not just the appliance depth, but also any air or other clearances needed behind the appliance.
• The aisle b/w your pantry and counter is no more than 34.5"...even less if you count the handle of the ovens.

For the aisle, it's still too narrow -- I would make it 48" wide if you're going t have an oven there plus allow traffic to pass b/w the oven and the pantry.

Regarding general location, yes, it would be better if you have the main oven in the range in the main part of the kitchen and the less-used, secondary one that far away. However, I still think it's too low. I have a couple of suggestions to fix that:

• Option 1: put the oven + MW in a stack along that wall. That way, the oven can be raised so it's more functional. It will also put the MW at a more functional height. I wouldn't build in the MW, instead, I would create an alcove to place a countertop model in it. That way, when it dies, you can easily replace it.

• Option 2: Raise it and the counter 6" for just that cabinet...similar to what they do for DWs for the handicapped.

BTW...I'm working on a layout for you, but I have to go...we're off to dinner and then see a movie. I'll be back later tonight or tomorrow morning.

Thanks so much for the clarification about the aisles! Good to know :) That's so nice of you to help with the layout, Buehl! :) I look forward to seeing your ideas :) Have fun tonight!!

Thanks, Flo :) ...Good to know ;) ...We are in the process of working on construction documents...so now is a good time to refine the layout for spacing.

Thanks again to everyone for your ideas and advice :) ~ Rachel

The minimum recommended aisle width is dependent on what is going on in the aisle. In your case, this is a through-aisle with the potential for being busy at times.

• 42" is the minimum width for an aisle where one and only one person will be in that aisle.

• 48" is the minimum for more than one person.

This is a case where you should have a minimum of 48".

There are no NEEDS that apply generally, other than basic safety issues involving water and power, etc. Otherwise they're all recommendations, and you can vary from them based on your circumstances and situational requirements. A lot of lovely and useful rooms break the recommended guidelines and no one gets hurt or even unhappy.

ourlifeinthesticks...I haven't forgotten you! Our refrigerator died Saturday morning and we've been working on getting another one ASAP.

Grrrr...only 10 years out of it!

I love the pantry behind the kitchen! Aside from the measurements, consider putting the frig at the other side of that run. Generally, people go from the frig, to the water, then to the prep, then to the stove top. As it stands, if two people are preparing together, they better take some dance classes as they will be doing a lot of dancing around between the frig and prep sink.

ETA - Consider carving out a space in the pantry to push the frig back so you can get a bigger and less expensive one.

Trash - consider keeping one trash as the prep space and a secondary trash under the cleanup sink. If you get an offset drain sink, it is a great use of space. Just do a search for trash under the sink.

Buehl... Oh no! Bummer about your fridge! What are you going to get?? :)

Nightowl...Thanks! I'm excited about my pantry too! I was thinking of having the fridge near the "cleanup sink" because our dishes (including cups) will be in the drawers just to the right of the dishwasher...would it still be better to flip it? I was thinking about kids getting a drink from the water dispenser while I'm cooking and wanted them out of the way, lol. Good point about two people cooking though...hmmmm. Yes! We were planning to do just what you recommended with the fridge! I have 4 (hungry, lol) kids and I can't imagine having to make do with a counter depth fridge, lol...good eye ;) ...I was thinking about getting a farm sink for the cleanup sink...can I put trash under a farm sink? I was unsure? Thanks so much for your advice and comments! :) ~ Rachel

This one is my own kitchen

Outinthesticks - While I agree with Bhuel that 48” would be ideal for an aisle with ovens, traffic and multiple cooks, I can attest that 42” (counter to counter) works fine if that is all you have. In our remodel we had to push to get 42” and couldn't get 48”. I was a little worried because we definitely have multiple people in the kitchen at a time and I have seen it quoted here frequently as 42” being a one cook kitchen, and I know 48” is the NKBA guideline for a multiple cook kitchen. We have only had the kitchen back working a week but we have had multiple people in it working together, ovens and DW open and people passing through and it has been fine. In fact it is SO much better than what we had before it is amazing! Once last night I had to walk around the island to get where I wanted to be when my daughter and sister were working back to back in the asile and I couldn’t squeeze between. I could have asked my sister to step to the side so I could pass if I had been carrying something hot or heavy, but I wasn’t and she was working so I just walked around.

We have a 9’ island so there is plenty of room for multiple people working side by side, the issue is only with 2 working back to back AND a 3rd wanting to pass through between them. At 42” we can easily work back to back, walk past a working person or an open DW or oven, though you would have to wait or go around if someone was standing behind the open oven/dw door.

Since it is a new build if you can do 48” that would be ideal, but if all you can get is 42” I wouldn’t hesitate, even if you regularly have more than one person working in the kitchen at once.

Here's a version of nightowl's suggestion to recess the fridge and move it to the other end of the pantry wall. That little section at the top, drawn to fill in the space, could be used to display a collection of serving trays or hanging skillets, could be a phone charging station/command center, or could just be part of the framed stub wall, with a piece of art hung on it.

Since the island and pantry are shortened, I omitted one of the trash pull-outs, and left the one on the corner, to be shared between prep and clean-up. I placed a MW drawer across from the fridge, just out of the prep zone, so that someone can use it without interfering with prep and cooking.

buehl, hope all is going well with the hunt for a new fridge.

I just measured my kitchen "aisles": The one that includes my range is 38" from the range handle to the other counter, and the one with my fridge is 34.5". There's only one cook, but I am a larger than average woman. I have no regrets, don't feel confined, haven't ever regretted having a narrower-than-recommended aisles, and wouldn't have ever even known what I did was a "bad" thing if it weren't for some Houzz posts.

I also have narrower than recommended aisles (42" or less), which work fine in my kitchen, with multiple cooks and grandkids running around but--I had to use the space available in an existing kitchen in an older home. In new construction I would try very hard to meet NKBA recs.

I didn't change the much as far as overall layout is concerned, but I did tweak it.

I wish I had time to do a detailed analysis, but I don't right now. I think you'll see the reasons for what I did when you study it.

Separation of work zones, plenty of space to work in, etc. You will shortly have 3 or 4 (maybe more!) of you working in the Kitchen at one time, so plan for that!

This works for both a one-person and a multi-person workspace.

(I added a "Baking Center" for pizza dough making! It's just a label to show you possibilities, you'll come up with what works best as you work in your kitchen.)

Scale: 1 square = 6" x 6"

Zone Map:

buehl usually posts this, but since she's pressed for time I'll add it:

Prep Zone...This is the zone where food prep takes place. Food prep can be anything from making a
sandwich to preparing a multi-course meal. It includes cleaning/rinsing food, cutting,
mixing, processing, etc. For many
people, especially those with small kitchens, their Prep Zone is also their
Baking Center for rolling out dough, etc. 70%
or more of the work and time spent in the kitchen is spent prepping. It's the most often used zone in your kitchen
– and you spend the most time in this zone.
(That's why it makes the most sense to put the Prep Zone in the most
pleasant spot in your kitchen.) ---Kitchen FAQS--What are zones?

Since more time is spent prepping than in clean-up, it makes more sense to keep the prep sink on the island, if you want to face your guests and the living areas.

FYI - With the exception of frig placement and ovens vs range, buehl's plan is essentially my kitchen for the last 2 years. LOVE IT ALL

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/nightowls-2016-kitchen-reveal-dsvw-vd~3702196[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/nightowls-2016-kitchen-reveal-dsvw-vd~3702196)

Nightowl, what a cute lil dog. Looks like he's waving hello.

Beautiful kitchen, too.

Thanks everyone for the advice on the aisles! ...good stuff here :) I'll chat with the person who is drawing up our construction documents (currently in process).

nightowl...thanks for the pictures! I'm so happy that we can have trash under our Whitehaven! That is exactly what I needed to see! Thanks for the pictures!

mama goose...thanks for the visual that's really helpful. Yes! We are planning on doing what you recommended with the fridge and pantry :) ...cute idea to use the space behind...I think it would be cute to hang our cast iron skillets there :) Thanks!

buehl...That was so nice of you to take the time to put this together for me! So so helpful! Yes! I see what you mean about the layout creating multiple work areas...perfect! Thanks so much! Hope you got your fridge problem figured out! :)

Flo...Yes! I was thinking the same thing...I like the main prep area on the island so I can see my kids running around the back yard, have a view to the living room and dining area, the back porch and even the front porch yard from there...our architect designed this area specifically for this purpose :) ...I love it :) I also like that the kids can be doing up dishes in an away area at the same time

nightowl...thanks so much for sharing your beautiful kitchen with me! ..and for trying on the layout for us as well, lol...they really are so similar!

Thanks again to everyone for your ideas and thoughts and time!!! ...great stuff here! :) :)