Kitchen lighting design assistance

10 years ago

(I've posted this in the Kitchen forum as well. Please ignore if you're already seen it.)
Greetings!
We did a kitchen remodel some time ago and, suffice to say, we gave insufficient consideration to the lighting. The remodel involved the removal of a wall between the square post at the bottom and the wall at the top of the layout. There is a beam between those two points where the wall used to be.
The existing lighting consists of overhead lights about 2-1/2' to 3' north of the sink (in the middle of where the dining room used to be) and about 2' to 2-1/2' south of the stove's eastmost corner (in the middle of the old kitchen). There are under-cabinet lights, both relatively inexpensive (and relatively ineffective) flourescents, under the white cabinet (wine rack) on the west wall and under the white cabinet on the west wall of the peninsula at the southernmost part of the layout. There are also a couple of very nice and effective task lights in the range hood.
The switch for the overhead near the sink is on the wall above the base cabinet to the west of the stove. There's an outlet there as well. There is a switch and outlet for each of the under-cabinet lights and there is one more outlet in the corner to the west of the sink.
The relative lack of light between the pantries and fridge at the north part of the layout and above the sink and peninsula is the source of most of our dissatisfaction and we thought we'd see if we could improve things.
We first thought we'd just take some power off the existing overhead light on the sink side and run it over through the ceiling to install a couple of potlights, one above the sink and one above the peninsula. However, we didn't like the idea that in that solution all the lights would be controlled with the same switch and thought maybe we could do something a little more comprehensive.
At this point our thought is to install three pots, evenly spaced along the counters and sink at the south of the layout about a foot from the wall behind the sink, taking power from the switch in the southwest corner AND installing one other light (pot? something else?) in the area between the pantries and fridge at the north end of the layout taking the power for that from the existing overhead.
Taking power from the overhead would probably be relatively simple, even though there would be some joists to go across. Taking power from the existing switches/outlets would also be possible (I think) but much more difficult because it would involve going up the wall to get into the ceiling.
I've read a number of David Tay's posts and was very impressed with his knowledge. I'm hoping he might be able to have a look at my kitchen layout and let me know what he thinks. Thanks in advance!

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (3)

David
10 years ago
Can I presume that the ceiling is up and you're planning on retrofit fixtures? If you have full access to the space above, you could use new construction cans.

What else is on the top of the diagram? Is it open to another space or is it closed in by a wall?

If cans are too much of a hassle (for the north side - top of the diagram),
1. It might be possible to have cove lighting hidden above the crown molding.
2. Some other form of lighting - pendant, surface mount, ...
As for the switch issue - you could use an enOcean solution to eliminate the need of running wires inside the wall. The remote (looks like a regular switch) can be placed on any nearby wall and moved at will.

The upfront cost of the enOcean solution will be high compared to a regular dumb switch. But, if you factor in the cost of pulling wiring inside the wall, patching, possible mishaps and the ability to relocate the switch, it might be worth while.
RabinCa
Original Author
10 years ago
Wow! Thanks for the fast response!
Yes to retrofit fixtures - the reno was done in 2009. The kitchen is on the first floor of a two storey home. I'm afraid full access to the ceiling is not on.
The opening at the top of the diagram is, in fact, an opening and not a wall. It leads to what used to be our living room and is now our dining room. The dining room is lit by by a single chandelier of sorts on a dimmer. It works fine in all respects.
As for that north area, the trim at the top of the pantries and the top of the upper cabinet above the fridge leaves a space of about 1-3/4". The trim itself is about 3/4" so there's about 2-1/2" up there. Would that be enough for a cove lighting solution? And, if so, do you think cove lighting would provide adequate light in that space? (It seems like the light would be pretty indirect and then, of course, there'd be the problem of getting power up there.)
The space is pretty confined with only about 5' between the left and right sides. There's some but not a lot of natural light there. I don't think a pendant would work at all in terms of aesthetics. Plus it would likely get in the way when the pantries are pulled out. So it seems to me it's either the cove lighting solution, surface mount or can(s).
If I were to use cans there, I'm not sure how best to place them. Seems to me the possibilities would be a) one in the centre of the area, b) one on either side or c) four placed near the corners of the corridor formed by the pantries and fridge, spaced a little less than four feet apart and forming a square. If I went cans, I'd probably lean towards a) or c).
At this point, I'm leaning towards surface mount and replacing the existing overhead light with a matching light. So there'd be the three pots over the sink area, the existing overhead (replaced with a new surface mount) and a new light in between the pantries (matching surface mount). I'd probably have to find a way to go through three, maybe four joists, to run the power over to the new overhead light from the existing one. A bit of a pain but not undoable.
That would leave one wall fish to get the power to the pots by the sink from the corner switch or the enOcean solution. I had a quick look at enOcean's website but I'm not real clear. How would that work? Would there be self-powered lights and a wireless switch?
Oh, I'm also thinking about replacing our current wimpy flourescent under-counter lights with something newer, better and brighter. Any suggestions?
I have absolutely no experience with lighting design so, although I've thought about it and done a bit of research at this point, I'm not at all invested in the solution I'm leaning towards at this point. I completely defer to your experience and expertise and would love to hear recommendations, if you have them.
Thanks again!
Related Discussions
Small galley kitchen needs design assistance to maximize utility
Q
Comments (19)
Herbflavor- I will try the 3 sketches. I've heard of the Liebherr, might be a bit out of range, $3000 for a freestanding 24", also sounds like service maybe expensive too. I do like the counter depth and compactness it would provide though. Katsmah- great idea, although the fridge door swinging how it does makes easy access to beer when I'm in the next room over (living/dining room). Moving the fridge towards the right may address this though. roarah- Another great idea! Except my sink/cooktop wall is an exterior wall, I may not be able to do this depending on what's behind there, but I can do it on the opposite wall. Also- a standard studded wall is 3.5" deep, how did you fit a toaster here? fori- Aisle is 49" wide from edge of existing countertop to countertop. I may be able to get a few (3) more inches by taking out studs on the fridge wall. It's a non-bearing wall, I planned to do this with the 'fridge anyhow so it doesn't stick out as far as it does now. I'll see if I can fit 30" depth cabinets but I dont think there's going to be enough space, not to mention the added expense. Yes, cabinets all the way up to the ceiling is in the plans, and yes I can, there's nothing behind there but air. On the existing fridge wall, the soffit stops at the pantry. I made a graph paper sketch, I'll have to find it and scan it.
...See More
Kitchen design assistance - Small kitchen
Q
Comments (33)
I came up with a plan that does not require changing doors or windows so it's budget friendly and then two variations of it. They do require some work to recess cabs into stud space but that's it and the plan can work even if you're unable to work in the stud space. You get 3 seats at the counter. Oops, I forgot to add length and depth of peninsula. It's 40 1/2" deep x 83" long (includes 1" cab side to support counter at end plus 1" counter overhang at end). I gave you much better clearances between fridge and counter; 42" between fridge face, not fridge box, nearly 10" more than your plan allowed, which keeps that area from becoming a pinch point. I also gave you more aisle space between perimeter and peninsula - 42" vs the 36" your plan had between perimeter and island - plus a larger section of counter between sink and range for prep work. I gave you a separate spot for the MW. It can either be a counter unit or a GE Spacemaker II, which is sized to fit into an upper cabinet. You can just see one of these in the upper cab in the right of this photo: Here it is in a larger kitchen: Yes, you could do a MW hood but moving the MW to another area means that one person can use the MW while another is at the range. I suggest you add shelves in front of the window to increase your storage like this: Use all your vertical space possible. Also, check into Ikea hacks to add toe kick drawers; Ikea hacker Super Secret Toekick drawer for kitchen cabinet Here is what is meant by between stud storage. A GWer recessed a 9" or 12" cab into her stud space so that the cab only stuck out 6" or 9" from the wall. It gave her lots of storage but ate up very little floor space. The only difference between Plan A and Plan B are the cabs in the upper left corner and along the side perimeter. Plan C has minor changes to the cabs in the lower right. I'm assuming that is your only bathroom; moving the door to the bedroom would route all bathroom traffic through that bedroom. Not too big a deal if you rent to a family or childless couple. Big deal if you rent to single, young professionals. If you can add another full bath elsewhere, then go for it and create a master suite, but if you can't, I would leave the bathroom door where it is. If you think you'd recoup the additional expense of moving doors and windows, etc, and adding another full bath that opens up more possibilities, including the plan benjesbride suggested above.
...See More
X-post from kitchen forum- need lighting assistance
Q
Comments (5)
hey namarie, both the fixtures you posted are so nice. where are they from? how about the goodman light from circa? it comes in a bronze finish which might work for you. it's one of my fave pendants.
...See More
Kitchen Design Assistance and Ideas!
Q
Comments (23)
Benje - thank you for your design(s) as well! Completely removing that door and moving to the family room is still an idea and if we go that route I do agree that it really has a great flow. It has no double wall oven though so that is our main concern with the design. Also a little concerned with storage space. I never feel like we are going to have enough!! Buehl - Thank you very much for your work on this! Sorry it took so long to get back to you all, we have an 8 month old so timing isn't always great! To answer all of your questions first: We are currently a young family of 3, my wife, myself, and our little 8 month old. We are planning on having one more child down the road a bit. I added a quick sketch of the first floor layout of the house which I have added to this post. Hopefully this will help everyone. If you need more measurements or identifying anything on my less than stellar drawing please just let me know. We don't have our fridge yet but it is going to be counter depth, not built in, most likely. That could change pending a few items but at this point we are going with counter depth and staying away from the ultra high end appliances. We were originally going to go with the subzero / wolf line but found that money better spent elsewhere. We do have a separate pantry area but it is in between the garage door opening and the powder room. It isn't ideal but we had none when we moved it so I made it the make-shift one for now. I think there is a good amount of opening (65") going into the family room so we wouldn't be opposed to closing up that half wall to the ceiling if it allowed for the island we really want. Worst case we could use that angled supp pantry you put in your KD and keep our old pantry the way we have it currently. The DR door could be moved down as far as I know. I am assuming you mean down as in away from the range. Obviously assuming that their wouldn't be any cabinets along that wall. Didn't open up the walls yet but assuming there isn't any duct work or plumbing over there. I don't NEED the 36" cooktop, it would be a nice to have as I prepare a wide variety of meals and always curse at my lack of space on the current 30" one. I could make do with a 30" though. I think the door staying in the kitchen is the best idea though, just making it a single door instead of the slider. We'll put an all glass door so we get a good amount of light in. We have no neighbors behind us so privacy isn't really an issue. Double wall oven is a must - we host most parties, holiday's, etc at our house and making a big meal without 2 ovens has really hurt us! Buehl - we LOVE your design with the large island. You removed the bar which will hurt but we understand if it's at the cost of the larger island we can always move the bar into the dining room. What are the overall dimensions of the island? I can't really make it out from the drawing. We would most likely bring that half wall to the ceiling and door wall to ceiling pantry there. My initial concern would be the storage space but if we get that full pantry over by the 1/2 wall, the spice rack, and the pots/pans under the cooktop I think it works GREAT.
...See More
David
10 years ago
Following is a provider of enocean products

http://www.loxone.com/enuk/extensions-accessories/extensions/enocean.html

Leviton also has a range of enocean controllers.
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=37824&minisite=10251

The idea is that there is a controller (Line voltage receiver) embedded somewhere in the ceiling with the power lines. A remote switch will control that just like a switch.

The solution depends quite a bit on how much effort you're prepared to invest. If that space on the north side is not used much, you might be able to defer the decision/ shop around.

UCL - your best option is to use a hard wire solution.

Possible options - HO t5, maxlite, eW Profile, uniLume in the approximate order of cost.

Kitchen lighting design assistance

Comments (3)

David

RabinCa
Original Author

Related Discussions

David

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Kitchen lighting design assistance

Comments (3)

David

RabinCaOriginal Author

Related Discussions

David

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

RabinCa
Original Author