It's supposed to climb up the hook. Does the dough ball around the hook, pull all the dough off the bowl? If so, you're successful!

Yes, all the dough is on the hook. For example, the pita bread recipe that I use states to process with the dough hook for 10 minutes on "4" kitchen aide. My dough clears the bowl after 3 minutes or so and just whirls around on the hook. Is it done as soon as it comes together on the hook?

lucy, we've had this discussion before about KitchenAid mixers and some members say they grease the hook or spray it with cooking spray to prevent it climbing all the way up.

Annie

I think it takes a little practice to know when it's mixed well enough. I go by the the looks of the dough. I've been using my Kitchen Aid mixer for bread making for 25 years now and I've never greased the hook. If your dough appears to be mixed completely and it's easy to handle (not too wet and sticky), it's probably just right. If it seems to wet and sticky add a tiny bit of flour until it gets to the proper consistency. I think you'll learn that by experience! :)

I agree, it'll take practice. It's exactly why I don't use the mixer to make bread dough anymore, I was constantly fiddling with it to make it "work", it would just climb the dough hook and twirl around, but never hit the sides of the bowl. Of course, if it just twirls around it's not getting kneaded sufficiently and then it doesn't rise well and the texture was dense. I greased the dough hook and it worked better but the consistency of the dough is still important. There's also a difference with the newer KitchenAid mixers and the older ones, I'm assuming it's some design issue.

Now I use the bread machine to do the kneading and then shape it by hand and bake it in the oven, I'm too impatient to stand and fiddle with the mixer for long.

I do know that several members use their mixers to knead bread, (like Ann T) and a couple use the food processor (like LindaC), so once you get the hang of it, it's easier.

Good luck.

Annie

Not to argue, however I doubt there's much of a design difference between the hook and bowls of the newer Kitchen Aid mixers and the older ones. It just comes down to getting used to what consistency your dough should be. That is learned by working it with your hands when you take it out of the bowl. If it sticks all over the place, it's too wet. In time you learn by sight whether the dough is the right consistency. As they say...practice makes perfect. I think you'll get the hang of the dough (so to speak) without too much time passing. Once you do, it's fun to work with. Good luck!

And I never knead dough with the KA dough hook for as long as 10 minutes! I will knead *by hand* for 8-10 minutes but only knead in the mixer with the hook for about 5 minutes.

Just my experience (many years, too!),
Teresa

Sowngrown:

Not argue either.
I agree with Annies first paragraph , in the last Thread.

It is not mixing, if it is riding on the Dough Hook.
*************************

I had a Classic Model, KA mixer a few years ago.
The Dough would ride up the hook to the motor, no matter what I did.

I was used to the Commercial Mixer, where the Dough Ball would be on the bottom, rolling around, mixing.

It was kneaded the right way.

*********************************

I called KA and sent it back and bought the PRO Model.

Never had any problems with it.

They did not give me a hard time. It seemed they apparently had many calls on this Model.

LOU

Lucy,
I don't think I would use Speed 4 either. My machine is new last year, and the manual specifies never to go over Speed 2.

The new motors are nothing like the older work-horses.

My hobart uses Speed #1 for kneading dough. No riding up the hook either. My old Kitchenaid always did and it was a big 6 qt. Glad I got rid of it!

Years ago when I got my first KA, I read a hint about judging the proper consistency of the dough. The instruction book said that the dough should clean the sides of the bowl but that there should be about two inches of dough stuck to the bottom of the bowl. A little more if you want a really soft dough and a little less than the two inches if you want a stiffer dough.
I've used this a guide ever since and my dough has always kneaded well and not climbed totally up the hook. It usually just slaps the side and falls down...or moves around.
I never add all the flour called for if my dough looks and feels right, I just add the final amount slowly to achieve my my spot in the bottom of the bowl.

Nancy

Wizardmom, I had no idea about the dough stuck to the bottom. That's a great hint. Thanks!

Thank you all for advice. Annie, I checked the archives without much success, but you have given me much to think about. I think I will try using the kitchen aid at a lower speed to see what that does. Actually the recipe for PITA s was small with only 3 ish cups of flour and a rise in the fridge. Maybe a larger quantity of dough would sit in the bowl better. I went back to check the recipe, adapted from The Bread Bible, "mix with the paddle #2 KitchenAid 20 sec, change to dough hook #4 Kitchenaid, and knead for 10 minutes".
Despite the dough climbing up the hook, and my repeated attemps to pull it off, the pitas were again a great success, puffing up nicely with a good texture and taste. But I have always wondered how the dough actually kneads when it is flapping around on the hook. Prehaps this is why my attempts at standard bread loaves yields such poor texture.

additionally: since I actually have, The Bread Bibile, I checked the instructions and they are precisely the same for the use of the Kitchenaid speeds and the 10 minute knead... go figure

Thanks, Nancy, for that tip, I'll have to give it another try, although at the rate I'm baking wedding cakes, the mixer has been in use a LOT, it's probably not available for bread. (grin)

lucy, I seldom have success searching the archives, I hate the search function here, I'm operating strictly from memory, which ain't what it used to be either. I wish I could even remember how long ago we had that thread going.

sowngrow, I'm not speaking from experience, I've only ever had one KitchenAid mixer, the one Nancy (wizardnm) gave me and, as I've mentioned, I didn't learn to successfully use it to make bread, mostly because I'm impatient and just gave up! I agree that it takes practice to learn to get it right in a mixer, and although I've kneaded bread by hand for nearly 50 years I could never get the stuff in the mixer to "feel" like the stuff I kneaded by hand, no matter how long I mixed it or at what speed.

I think that everyone should learn to knead bread by hand so you get an idea of what it's supposed to feel like, then you can check dough in the mixer or the food processor or the bread machine and know when the hydration is correct, whether you need more liquid or flour or whether it's just right.

Lou, I'm glad it wasn't just my imagination, I KNEW we had a discussion about different KA mixers, so I guess it must have been the model instead of the age of the machine that was the discussion issue.

Annie

I make the honey-wheat all the time. Sometimes in the bread machine, sometimes in the KA. With the bread machine, I can only make 1 loaf at a time, in the KA I use the full recipe (6 cups flour; 2 loaves).

I would love to learn to make it by hand. Just so I have an idea for a guideline, would I knead it (the full recipe) for about 10 minutes? I realize it goes by feel, but I want just a general time so I know what to expect. (and take breaks!)

jasdip, most breads are "right" with 8 to 10 minutes of hand kneading, some whole grain loaves a bit longer or more diligently.

As with everything, there are some that require more, some less, but that's a pretty good average, IMO.

Annie

Annie :
I am not sure but I think I started that discussion ,
because I had the problem with the Dough riding up the Hook

Some Members said they did not have any problemn with the
older machines.
I think Dcarch brought up a lot of technical things about the motor and overheating.

Jasdip:
I have mixed as lot of Dough by hand, enough for thousands of Pizzas.

I even finish mixing the Dough by hand after I take it out of the Mixing Bowl.

That way I can get just the right amount of flour,
to make a Soft Dough but not sticky.
It is very easy to make the Dough by hand. Most of the time is spent waiting for it to rise.
Give a go !!! You will be surprised.

I have a Dough recipe, if you need it but I am a couch Potato right now.

You can Google " Lou-s Pizza Dough-Garden Web "
Have a good one,
LOU

Since one year I have an adapted spiral dough hook for my KA Artisan. I bought it through Ebay. Search for "spiral dough hook artisan". It works just great. SUPER!

I make bread in my Kenwood and it rides the hook but even if the bread is spinning round it is still needing the dough by the nature of the hook and the planetary motion. As long as there is sufficient mass of dough it doesn't matter. But I am sure you don't want to be on a high setting and that could be your problem. For the kenwood I use no more than speed 2 or even just 1. I usually try to mix it for the least time I can or it will harden the dough so 6 - 10 mins max. The consistency is usually a good guide if it is elastic, dry or wet to your preference. I really don't think riding up the hook is a problem. It's an optical illusion where I think it is still kneading but looks just as if it is only spinning. I used to use a bread mixer but now prefer to use the mixer as it makes it so much simpler and you have so much more control to the consistency. I use it for all breads even focaccia.

Which Kenwood do you have? A local store just carrying them (U.S., small town), and I am beginning to research them. Thanks.