I have a Frigidaire Affinity 7000 and love its performance. Here is a quote from the website "Integral heater boosts water to the correct temperature for consistent results." It also heats the water to 152 F. for a sanitary cycle. Another feature is an automatic temperature control when the machine fills. I can hear the cold water being turned off and on while the machine fills for a warm or cold cycle. This machine can be stacked with its matching dryer if you have space considerations. I purchased the pair from a local appliance dealer for around $1200.

Here is a link that might be useful: Frigidaire Affinity product page

You're seeing (and saying) what I've said for quite a while now. Just having a heater doesn't mean that much. It's what cycles it works on. An effective heater can be a valuable feature. But if it only works on a cycle or two, it doesn't mean much, especially when it only heats to 150° or so.

Good news from LG customer service: "The heater operates on every cycle except tap cold, IF the water temperature is not the optimum for the wash setting. At any cycle including sanitary, water valves supply cold water to protect wash load damage by hot water, water valves supply hot water or cold water to reach target temperature at each cycle, then if the water temperature does not reach the target temperature even though hot water was supplied, the heater turns on. The built-in water heater in the washer assures that incoming water is the correct temperature to optimize cleaning performance. Most laundry detergents must be activated at certain temperatures to work correctly. We use thermisters (electronic thermostats that have a high degree of accuracy) to detect incoming water temperatures. The 1000-watt heater adjusts the incoming water to ensure superior thermal action performance. The function of the heater when the "Cold" setting is selected is utilized in areas in which, for example the winter climate decreases the normal temperature of the water coming directly from the tap. The heater will raise this temperature in order to provide and maintain optimal cleaning action. The built-in heater will work on any setting to ensure the correct temperature of the wash, except for the "Tap Cold" setting. The "Tap Cold" setting provides water directly from the tap, with no temperature adjustment."

Sounds like typical Asian-culture translation attempt for English-speaking market.

Interesting, though. Until reading this, I had thought the Bosch/Siemens units were the only ones that did this. It has always been one of their selling-points.

In my experience, most folks have no idea what the deal with built-in heaters in HE machines really is. For many (most?) install locations, it's important. Without it, the actual temperature in the washer can be about anything -- but almost always cold rather than warm or warm rather than hot. ATC just doesn't do the job without a heater.

My LG WM2455H was delivered yesterday. BTW, it came at 6 PM, and was the crew's 20th (and last) delivery of the day. So if your Sears installers seem rushed, now you know why. They did a great job, though.

The washer's temp control is not living up to the description from LG customer service that I posted above. Too bad, because I like most everything else about it, and none of the other brands appeal to me.

Here are my observations so far. Note that my hot water supply has to run about 3 gallons to flush out the cooled water in the pipes.

Warm wash: Ran it with medium-high soil level, to extend the cycle. The load felt cool after the initial filling process, and just as cool right before the rinse. So it didn't heat at all.

Hot wash: The load felt warm after the initial fill. When I went to check it again, just before the rinse, the door wouldn't unlock, so apparently it had been heated up. That's good, but there's no evidence of a temperature hold, to extend a shorter cycle as necessary to let the water heat up.

LG customer service, via the phone, tells me that the heater does not boost the water temperature for temps other than Extra Hot, it just "maintains" the incoming temperature. They opened a case, and are supposed to track down who supplied the incorrect info that I posted above. I also submitted a question/complaint via the same channel (the website) where I got the incorrect info. No answer to that one yet.

I expect that Sears will agree to take the machine back, if it comes to that...they took back a dryer from us 8 or 9 years ago with no hassle. But first I'd like a further explanation from LG. The incorrect answer didn't come from nowhere, it must be based on some previous design or future intention.

Couple of other observations: Go to the WM2455H user manual available online, and search for "167". That temperature table is not in the manual delivered with the machine. Also, probably not so relevant, this model is no longer called a "Tromm", whatever that means.

Anyway, I'm otherwise thrilled with the machine, but I'm afraid the heater issue is a deal-breaker.

New Energy Star regs took effect last year, right? Maybe that's why LG apparently changed how they use the internal heater. Then other manufacturers might be affected too. Regarding Bosch, do you (Asolo) have personal experience with Bosch washers heating the water on all cycles and all temperature settings? If it's just from reading the literature, then at this point I'm a wee bit skeptical...and if you can vouch for it personally, I wouldn't count on current models working the same way. Hey, given my recent experience, I wouldn't count on it even if some rep at Bosch told me they do.

Now I'm thinking point-of-use booster heater... That's not simple either. A small tank is the cheapest and easiest to install, but another tank of hot water sitting around 24/7 is hardly energy-efficient. A tankless heater doesn't waste energy, but there's a gotcha I'm concerned about: The LG fills itself in short bursts, and the tankless heater would have to activate for each burst. I've sent an inquiry to a few manufacturers, asking how long it takes for their heaters to detect the water flow and turn on the heating element.

I have the Maytag Epic set, which have automatic temperature control (ATC). The manual describes this as soemthing along the lines of not starting to fill the washer until the warm/hot water from the water lines reaches it's optimal temperature. Maybe not as energy saving as I had hoped, but at least ensures that I am not washing clothes that need warm/hot water in icy cold when it's 40 below here in Canada in the winter! I didn't know much about FLers when I bought these, but my next set will have a heater for sure. If I can ever convince DH we are having another baby, I'll need it for cloth diapers!

I have a Maytag Bravos HE toploader, and I have not had any problem with the temp of wash water when I wash with hot water. My laundry room is off the kitchen, and I usually run some hot water in the kitchen first, just for a few seconds, to be sure the wash water will be good and hot. That works for me.

Yeah, flushing the pipes, if there's a convenient faucet, would help with the wash temperature. Warm rinses still wouldn't be warm, and my wife really wants warm rinses. She used them on the old top-loader, and they're probably even more important on the front-loader.

alldaylaundry > The manual describes this as soemthing along the lines of not starting to fill the washer until the warm/hot water from the water lines reaches it's optimal temperature.

"Automatic temperature control regulates incoming hot and cold water."

It adjusts the hot & cold water mixure, but doesn't heat it.

suburbanmd, what would keep your washer's rinse water from being warm, assuming the wash water starts out hot or warm?

Mara, the water in the hot water pipe will have already cooled off when the rinse cycles start.

If it takes 3 gallons or so to get hot water at your source, you might want to consider one of those 'instant' hot water devices for the bathroom. It circulates the hot back through the cold until the hot reaches the right temp, then turns off.

suburbanmd, does your hot water heater have an insulation
'blanket' around it? When dh put one around ours, it made a real difference. Our hot water stays hot longer, and our electric bill went down.

When I choose the warm rinse on my toploading HE washer, there is a noticeable difference in the temperature of the laundry when I unload it, as compared to a cold rinse.

Mara,

If there is a 100' pipe (or some particular length) running through the house's attic/foundation/walls from the water heater to the washing machine, placing an insulation blanket around the water heater has NO EFFECT on loosing heat from water standing static in that length of pipe.

If 3 gallons must be run-through from the faucet until the water runs hot, that 3 gallons is the amount of water standing in the pipe. After that water has run hot into the pipe and then cools down completely again, it'll take 3 gallons run through again until until hot water runs again from the faucet, whether the water heater has a blanket or not.

That makes sense, dadoes. I have no idea how long the pipes from the hot water heater to our washer are, but they are at opposite ends of the house. Our house has copper pipes; could that be an issue?

I just know my laundry is definitely warm to the touch when I use a warm rinse, as compared to being cold when I use a cold rinse.

Also, if the water comes out of the hot water heater hotter because of the insulation blanket, couldn't that make a difference, particularly in copper pipes? And I would think our warmer southeastern climate might make a difference, too. Our hot water is even hotter in the summer.

I think this machine has a temp control issue, independent of my plumbing quirks. I flushed the hot water pipe by filling a couple of hot washes. Then I tried a couple of warm washes, holding one fill hose with each hand, right near the machine, to feel where the water was flowing. It filled with mostly cold water, just one prolonged burst from the hot hose. The resulting wash water was cold.

My old temperature-controlled top-loader, when filling a warm wash, would fill with mostly hot, and occasionally add a burst of cold. The new machine isn't acting nearly as smart.

mara_2008,
the insulation blanket won't make the water hotter in the tank, that's the job of the Water Heater Thermostat setting.

Sears just told me that "hot" is now 90 deg F, and "warm" is 75, due to energy regulations. So even without my hot water delay issue, the machine's hot wash will be cooler than the old warm wash.

regus, I realize the insulation blanket doesn't make the water hotter - it does help to keep it hot longer. My last post was typed late last night, and I was very tired, wasn't clear.

Dear hubby reminded me today that our copper pipes are also wrapped in insulating material.

I just know that our hot water is so hot it burns me if I'm not careful, our warm water is good and warm, and our cold water is cold. And it's the same in the washing machine.

suburbanmd, what kind of washer do you have? Did you mention its type and manufacturer?

"...."hot" is now 90 deg F, and "warm" is 75, ..."

This kind of thing has been a constant annoyance to me on these forums, at CR reports and forums, and in most literature and manuals. Seldom are the terms defined. In the "old days" most folks kept their water heaters at about 130-140F and that's what most folks considered "hot" to mean. "Cold" meant whatever came out of the cold-water tap. "Warm" meant somewhere in between.

In my washing considerations, I regard "cold" as anything less than body skin-temperature -- say, 90F or so - but higher than 60F which is about where even "cold water detergents" become less than useful. I consider "warm" to be about hot-tub temperature -- say 105F or so. "Hot" is too hot to dip your hands in -- say 130F - 140F.

By setting "hot" on my Duet with 130F water entering at the first drop, my actual wash temperature with full load is about 105F. If I want hotter than that, I must select a cycle that engages the on-board heater. That's easy enough to do, of course, but the buttons that say "cold", "warm", and "hot" are essentially meaningless in terms of what's actually going on in the machine. The manual for the machine says next to nothing about these considerations. CR says nothing. Salespeople are oblivious.

Water temperature is a principal component of cleaning performance in any machine, HE or conventional. The manufacturer's, especially, should do a better job of saying what they mean. And CR and other rating sources should, too. Otherwise its more or less impossible to know what they're talking about.

Mara, it's an LG WM2455H. I imagine that other brands are also affected.

Sears took back the LG, but charged a 15% restocking fee since we took a refund rather than an exchange. We decided to try a Miele W4840, which arrived a couple of days ago. I figured that a machine of European heritage would be most likely to provide effective temperature control, and the Miele seemed the safest bet. The wide range of offered temperatures (86F, 104F, 122F, 140F, 158F) was also appealing. I did read the past threads here, detailing how the W4800 series doesn't heat the water on Normal cycle, and that was ok with me. Interestingly, so far I've noticed one difference between the online manual and the printed manual that came with the machine, and it involves the Normal cycle. The online manual says the Normal cycle can spin only on "High Spin", and the printed manual says "Max Spin". Clearly the Normal cycle is the one designed to give the best Modified Energy Factor, and the increase in spin speed has tweaked it a bit more.

I've observed only a couple of the available cycles so far, concentrating on doing laundry rather than exhaustive testing. I can report that I saw the Custom cycle actually pause the duration timer while it was heating the water to 140F. Of course that's just what I wanted to see.

My wife, who originally wanted "another Kenmore", i.e. another agitator top-loader, is very happy with the Miele. Her clothes came out visibly cleaner than ever before, and that was a regular warm 104F wash with no prewash or extended wash or extra rinse or anything. We're using the Sears free-and-clear powdered HE detergent.

It didn't take long for me to misuse my newfound hot washing powers -- We have a couple of all-cotton bathmats that were pretty ratty, and I figured it couldn't hurt to wash them at 140F, though they were labeled for cold wash. It was ok fabric-wise, but not dye-wise, because the turquoise mat ran onto the white one. I did manage the salvage the situation with an even greater show of force -- washed the white one alone at 158F with chlorine bleach, and it became white again :)

Isn't 130F scalding, asolo? That's too high a temp for most families to set their hot water heaters.

Please let us know how long that white bathmat hangs together, suburbanmd.

The Speed Queen TL, as many people here know, is an old-school non-ATC machine. The installation manual says "Recommended hot water temperature is 140 to 150 Fahrenheit". My point being, the Speed Queen folks apparently also think some laundry tasks require truly hot water. Obviously you can't distribute such hot water safely throughout the house, so the washer needs its own boosted supply. An effective internal heater in a washer eliminates this problem, especially if it can supply a range of temperatures, not just the "sanitary" temperature.

As far as I know, the bathmat is all-cotton, and nothing seems to have puckered from the washing. Why would it fall apart, from the temperature or from the bleach? I've been regularly bleaching some cotton whites, albeit at a lower temperature ("hot" on my old TL), and nothing has ever fallen apart. Maybe some elastics have been affected over the long term, but the bathmat doesn't have any.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.speedqueen.com/sq_con_tech_pdf/201471en.pdf

My account was finally credited for return of the LG. It took a month, and lots of phone calls.