Are you in very far north west Jersey? Unless you have a house of glass or 4000+ SF (even then), it sounds a little big.

Did anyone do a load calc? I'm in Camden County w/2500 SF, good insulation & Andersen windows. Calculated loss at 14* design temp is under 60,000 BTU.

Your furnace on high will deliver 116,000 BTU.

Would you mind sharing your location, SF, and model #'s/sizes of equipment being changed out?

V

Thanks for your quick reply!! This is in Tenafly, NJ. No they did not do any load calculations. The house is 2600Sq ft with the ducts exposed to 750sq ft of basement. The equipment being replaced is a 1988 carrier 120K BTU furnace. The house is 70 year old and we have a an addition which is 20 year old. The addition and old house have seperate duct work branching into the main duct. I already paid the advance for them to have it installed. My only concern now is if the price is good or not. Please let me know so that I can do some post negotiations.

Furnace is oversized. I would drop back to at least the 100k mdl.

In fact, I would demand a load calc-you might could even get by on an 80 K model.

Pricing is always on high side in Jersey. Did you get any other competitive quotes.

IMO

Yes, I got 3 more quotes from Trane. All of them are in the range of 10K for single stage AC and Furnace to 13.4K for 2 stage AC and furnace. None of them did any calculations. Surprisingly everyone suggested 120K BTU furnace. Not sure if it has anything to do with my home.

The price seems to be on the high side. Are new linesets included in the proposal? Are you getting the Carrier 10 year labor warranty?

I would rather have the 58MVC 3 stage furnace than the one listed in the quote.

What is wrong with your 13 year old furnace? I assume it has an efficiency of 80%. If that is the case the 96% 120K BTU furnace puts out more heat than your current furnace.

Yeah they included a new refrigerant line set. The old furnace is 23 year old. I only got 5 year warranty on the labor. Is 10 year warranty standard or does it vary by region? Appreciate your replies.

The furnace is oversized.

Don't let dealer install the 120K model until they perform a load calculation.

Drop down.

This is very telling about your dealer.

IMO

You will end up with an expensive single stage furnace. Could also be noisy.

Does the addition suffer from insufficient airflow?

Please let us know of your experiences with the new equipment.

V

They just installed the furnace today. He says I am covered under carrier 100% satisfaction guarantee. He also said since my walls do not have any insulation (baloon framing) I need a bigger furnace.
Yes, the addition is always cold and receives less heat. This is also one more reason he pushed for a bigger furnace.

Also can someone please tell me how much I overpaid as per nj standards. Just wanted to get a ballpark so that I can negotiate some extras.

Carrier includes a 10 year parts warranty if the unit is properly registered with Carrier. I assume your dealer will do this. The standard Carrier labor warranty is one year. You can purchase a Carrier 10 year labor warranty. You want the warranty directly from Carrier and not the dealer.

Do a search on the prices in the forum of Carrier Infinity furnaces and AC condensers. I live in NJ and had my equipment installed in April 2009. The equipment was smaller and different Infinity models, so it is hard to say how much you may have overpaid. Also consider we are now into the heating season. Dealers are not willing to negoiate prices when they are busy. Did you get quotes for similar Carrier equipment? When I was shopping I saw a 25% variation in prices for the same equipment.

actually i did not get any carrier quotes this is the only one i got. I never thought i would go with a carrier since it was expensive, I wanted to install a Trane. But the quotes Trane folks gave me were 2K more vs carrier when adding all the rebates.Anyways, I just want to make sure they installed the right equipment which works properly. I will make sure they do based on feedback here since they were bragging about 100% satisfaction guarantee. I just emailed the installer for Manual J calculations. Will keep you posted.

"Yes, the addition is always cold and receives less heat. This is also one more reason he pushed for a bigger furnace."

NO, that is due to the fact that your duct system wasn't properly modified to consider the addition.

Keep us informed.

V

Bozerready

V is absolutely correct.

This furnace is oversized. More BTUs will not solve your problem and in fact besides the higher operating costs, you might even see a decline in comfort and an increase in noise.

Dealer should have thoroughly examined ductwork system both design, size, insulation and then balanced air flow.

Dealer went the easy and incorrect route and has not served his customer well.

IMO

It such a shame to install high end stuff half ass,
Manaul j is what I would have given you before discussing size,Because it is a 3 stage unit you should be ok with the cold room problem. Not becuse it is bigger but will run longer at lower stage.If they had not bother to do a manual j they most likely will not bother addressing the duct work.

Here is a snapshot from the Manual J calculations provided. Ar there any loop holes. Please let me know.

Winter Design Conditions
Outside db 5 deg F
lnside db 70 deg F
Design TD 65 deg F

Heating Summary
Structure 45387 Btuh
Ducts 40289 Btuh
Central vent (256 cfm) 18428 Btuh
Humidification 0 Btuh
Piping 0 Btuh
Equipment load 104103B tuh

Infiltration
Method Simplified
Construction quality Semi-Loose
Fireplaces 2(Semi Lose)
Area (ff) 2530
Volume (ft") 5060
Air chanqes/hour 1.03
EquivA. VF (cfm) 87

Heating Equipment Summary
Efficiency 96,7 AFUE
Heating input 120000 Btuh
Heating output 113000 Btuh
Temperature rise 64 "F
Actual air flow 1600 cfm
Air flow factor 0.019 cfm/Btuh
Static pressure 0 in H2O
Spacet hermostat
Make Carrier
Trade Infinit9v6
Model 59*N*NA12oV24**22
GAMA ID 193455

I am not sure why my ducts are taking up 40K BTU of heat. Half of them are exposed in the crawlspace, but insulated. Is this the reason why? Please advise. I feel that the numbers are cooked up as they never did any measurements in my home.

Bozereddy

As far as sizing, I strongly suspect you have been grossly ill served by your dealer.

What Man J software was used to generate the information above? Did you see the actual report on the software's letterhead?

Did you ever see dealer ake any measurements? Did dealer ever ask you any questions relating to performing a Man J?

IMO

They used WrightSoft Right Suite Universal 7.1.06. No they did not ask any questions. I just moved in a week before into the home. I atleast have a written proof from them (Manual J) if I pay a third party to do an independent Manual J calculation.

A third party independent load calc should prove very interesting...

Where did the 5* winter design temp come from. Closest areas around you (NJ/NY) show around 14 - 15*.

V

I install Bryants evolution system( same as infinity)and duct work properly sized is crucial.If they are not sized properly your gonna get errors on the thermostat a duct test every 24 hrs. You will be able to see the results on the stat. I installed it in jersey 2400 sq 3 tons including duct $ 12,000 and 2 zone. My load calc called for 2 ton but homeowner was getting quotes for 4 tons. I ended up installing 3 tons and then rebates were a problem because they did not match the man J 2 ton. The man J is for the heated space and if 40K loss is for duct work hmmm.Im a small co. so prices do vary depending on the co. I normally just keep it at zero degree outdoor for nj for my own peace of mind and still install smaller furances

The NJ Cool Advantage Rebate is a $500 rebate for an AC which has a minimum SEER of 16 and EER of 13. The application requires a Manual J and S be submitted as part of the application. The equipment must be within 15% or one half ton of the calculated size.

My theory is this contractor has bought a copy of WrightSoft software and is fudging the numbers so he can submit the report as part to the rebate application. I say this because from my experience with two contractors back in 2009 who said the Cool Advantage rebate was "too much paper work". I realized later they did not want to be bothered with creating and submitting a Manual J calculation.

The delear just called and said that they are ready to take the system and refund me the money (not sure how much and if it excludes the labor etc. I will post the exact number shortly) rather than install a 100K BTU furnace. I am not sure if this is a ploy. He says the only way he can have the current system function properly is to add infinity dampers and zone the system for an additional $3500 since the current system is not heating the house evenly (I told them initially before install that if they can get the whole house to same temperature whithin a few degrees I would be satisfied and they agreed).