Interesting question. I think your use of "organic-ish" says a lot. What can be called organic is a bit squishy so often you don't what you are really getting.

I buy hormone free milk. That's easy here because the local dairy store chain only carries hormone free. And they still sell it in bottles, which I like, so it's a no brainer.

I buy organic squash because I read that squashes absorb more pesticides than any other vegetable and peeling doesn't get rid of them.

Those are the only things I regularly buy organic, natural. etc. If I knew some trustworthy farmers who sold organic meat I'd buy from them but I don't.

Some "free range" cows wandered through my yard this morning. I don't think the farmer up the road would have appreciated me taking a steak or two off of them. lol

I try to buy organic whenever I can. I think that fungicides, insecticides, pesticides, herbicides and all the other "cides" are poisons by nature, meant to kill things. It can't be good for us.

Antibiotics in meat and milk are leading to antibiotic resistant bacteria, according to nearly all leading scientists and even the government admits that it's become a huge and far reaching problem and that people are going to die because they will have bacteria that does not respond to anything we currently have in our health care arsenal. Not that they'll do anything about it.

Grass fed beef is leaner and higher in Omega 3s, healthier for the heart, as well as being healthier for the animal

Of course, the stuff is pricey, and fortunately, I have the option of raising my own beef, raising and canning my own vegetables and our local organic dairy has readily available hormone and antibiotic free dairy products.

I started growing a large organic garden and raising beef when my girls were small because I wanted to know that what went into my children's mouths was as healthy and "clean" as I could make it. Now I have grandkids and I feel the same.

As Americans, we're used to cheap food. We've sacrificed quality for quantity, I fear. We are also sacrificing a bit of our humanity in participating in a way of producing food that is so inhumane and cruel, hardening ourselves to the torture the animals endure to feed us cheaply.

That's before I even think about high fructose corn syrup and a zillion other chemical additives in nearly everything we find on the store shelves. Sigh.

What's the answer? Darned if I know. I do the best I can. And I don't buy food from China either, because I don't trust the quality or the safety of it.

Annie

Antibiotics in meat and milk are leading to antibiotic resistant bacteria

Indeed - see link for the latest research.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dutch Study

I don't eat meat or dairy but all of my produce is organic. It costs more but I think nutritious food is the most important thing you can spend your money on. It's your health. It's more important than a nice house or a new car or your 401K. Feeding chemicals and pesticides to your family to save a few bucks doesn't make any sense to me. Proper nutrition (which most people don't receive) will prevent most major diseases. I understand that many people have income restrictions but feeding cheap,chemical-laden food isn't the way to do it. It's much easier to maintain your health than to try to get it back. Too many people accept that health issues are just a product of getting older but nutrition plays such a massive role.

Today I ate a pomegranate, wild blueberries, 4 oranges, half a pound of spinach, a pound of kale, an avocado, a cup of strawberries, a cup of black grapes, lettuce, cucumber and zucchini. I probably spend about $20 a day in organic produce but it's worth it to me.

I feel very lucky, because I have easy access to local organic, pasture-raised whole chickens for around $4-$6 a pound. I've been buying frozen hamburger patties and other meat from a family farm right around the corner - not "certified" organic but seems to follow the appropriate practices, and the animals are free-range as well.

We're not milk drinkers, but I'm looking for a good local source for when I do need it for cooking. There seems to be lots of questions regarding truth-in-advertising for companies like Horizon Organic.

I'm not consistent with vegetables, but tend to go with the whether-you-peel-it philosophy. Also joined a CSA this year.

I think the local-food movement is really making progress, at least in N.J., because I'm seeing farms expand their offerings this year, and prices have dropped for some items.

Sue

There's a lot of confusion of terminology about these issues.

Poultry--for meat birds, the term free range is a marketing ploy. All producers have to do to call a meat bird free range is to show on the plans a door on the poultry house that birds could use, regardless of whether the door is ever opened and regardless of the quality of the poultry yard. Meat birds don't walk much, so they could never be free range. For eggs, yes, it has meaning. Free range hens wander far over grassy fields and their eggs show the difference in the Omega 3-6 balance, the lower amount of bad cholesterol and the deep color of the yolks.

Organic meat birds are raised in standard poultry houses with no access to green grass and insects, the two things that make poultry really tasty. ONLY pastured poultry, which puts meat birds in small cages moved regularly, have constant access to grass and insects. Pastured poultry may or may not be organic depending on the ration, but it is far superior to organic. It is only raised by small scale farmers who manage small operations and almost always sell directly to consumers.

Beef--there's a difference between grass fed and grass finished. (And there's certainly a difference between a managed grass fed operation and the steer that just wanders about on a 40 acre field.) If beeves are grass fed but grain finished, all the CLA (Conjugated Linoleic Acid)and Omega 3 benefits vanish with the grain finishing. For more on this, check out the website, www.eatwild.com.

Dairy is much the same as meat. Even if no hormones are given, a confinement dairy or even one that feeds considerable grain loses the Omega 3s and CLA that a grass dairy provides.

Hope this clarifies some of these issues.

I buy grass fed and grass finished locally raised beef, pastured poultry, and free range eggs.

Like many, we're inconsistent but try hard to buy organic when we can see a benefit. We understand the confusion and discrepencies in the term "Organics" but just try to do the best we can.

After the last national egg "to-do" we switched to Pete & Gerry's Organic Eggs. We've used only organic dairy (no antibiotics, hormones, etc.) for years.

Fresh produce is about 80% organic. We're in the process of switching our food storage program to organics, fair-trade, etc. That's a longer term project though - can't switch overnight. It takes time. But, as we place each new order we consider how & where the product was raised. I've sent many letters & emails requesting product information. We do not knowingly eat food products nor use cookware/dishes from China.

I grew up on what is now a Federal Superfund Site. And, while we'll never know for sure the thought that the many contaminants I was exposed to 'might' have contributed to the array of health problems I have today (and my two nieces) is reason enough for us to support those trying to provide consumers with healthy foods. We also have 6 grandchildren & try hard not to knowingly feed them growth hormones, antibiotics, pesticides, insecticides, etc.

It's a tough issue because cost is a factor that can't be ignored. We help offset that extra cost by being conscious of serving sizes. A pound of poultry or beef usually makes 6-8 servings for us. We use animal protein more as a condiment in many of our meals & try to limit meat as the main component of a meal to, maybe, about once/twice a month. We do buy our poultry, beef, & pork from Whole Foods as we've found we just don't consume enough to justify driving 100 miles to fill our freezer with a whopping 5 pounds of beef.

Dinner tonight will be bean burritos...a food storage meal costing pennies. The salsa will be made with our own organic tomatoes from last season (that's unusual though...normally we buy organic heirloom tomatoes to put up). No meat at all in tonight's meal.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pete & Gerry's Organic Eggs

I think I just feel like, "organic" isn't defined or reguated enough to justify paying more for something that likely is not a lot different. So I don't buy it. I will if they ever really truly become organic. I'm not rich enough for Whole Paycheck to buy it there.

But, organic has been defined, and regulated. It may not be defined as well a we'd like, but a farmer pays dearly, and jumps through a lot of hoops to become certified organic. Many farmers may practice organic techniques, but never become certified organic because it's too costly and time consuming. That might be where the confusion is, because they can make other claims, such as natural. Talk about a word that's not defined!

I don't buy meat, so that's not an issue. DH does buy meat, and he's the proverbial monkey with his hands over his ears, mouth and eyes, cause he doesn't want to be made to feel guilty. Imagine being married to me, and not care where your meat comes from. lol

I 100% agree with Annie. I wish I were in a position to raise my own meat for DH.

As for dairy, I'm afraid I don't have a source for grass fed, free range dairy. I wish I did, because I do eat cheese and milk. I buy my eggs from a local farmer that allows his chickens to roam freely, and feeds them organic feed. Yes, they are expensive, but they're worth it.

Sally

It isn't as defined as I like. That's true. But, the more the farmers do it, the less expensive it gets. It'll get there. But I can't be the one to help this process along... YET. I will. Just not now.

I don't have a perfect system. For my day-to-day groceries, I shop at Trader Joes because all TJ-label products have no artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, genetically-modified ingredients, MSG or added transfats. So if I do get a "convenience" food (premade sauce, mix, cereal, etc.) it is from here.

For dairy, all products I buy are rBGH/rBST free. I don't necessarily buy organic labeled products here as there are many small dairy cheeses and yoghurts that are not labeled organic that follow stricter guidelines, but don't go through the government hoops.

For produce, I grow as much as I can, always pesticide-free, and trade with my neighbors who grow different things. Second choice is our weekly farmers market (I don't always choose organic). And third choice is organic from the grocery stores.

For eggs, first choice from a local person who raises chickens free-range (not certified organic), second choice, store-bought free-range, cage-free.

For seafood, I follow the Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch guidelines and then purchase from our local wholesale fish markets or from Trader Joes (working towards offering sustainable seafood only).

For meats, like many have mentioned, we use a small amount of meat compared to our overall food consumption. If I'm roasting a chicken, I buy free-range, no antibiotic, organic, cage-free, whatever is the best available. If I'm buying a couple of sausages to flavor soup, I get fresh made from the meat market, but not necessarily organic, grass-fed, etc. I don't ever prepare beef.

I will always choose locally-produced, un- or minimally-processed foods over national-brand organic products.

Oh, I forgot about the Monterey Bay Aquarium program. We also go by their guidelines. That's eliminated some fish that we used to consume. We eat dry diver scallops caught right here in town. Never eat the slimey things from the grocery store. Lobster also comes from Mystic/Stonington waters. We have a friend with a recreational lobster permit he uses as a hobby. We are the lucky recepients of his excess. Our DS & DDIL bring us Pinky Toe crab from Maine. Gosh, it's good but not produced in enough quantity to be nationally available. We don't eat much fresh fish.

/tricia

I am blessed to be able to buy grass fed and finished beef from "just over the hill" from me. We know the farmers, they also raise all their own hay so the cows are only fed pesticide free hay in the winter too.

Same with local pork from friends.

Chicken is a different story. While we do butcher and eat our older laying hens, roasting chickens they are NOT!
I buy conventional chicken as well. Looking for a reasonable source for organic/local.

Eggs are my own, free range, hanging out with the goats REAL eggs! LOL

Fish either comes from relatives who take charter trips, fresh seafood market, or grocery store (nothing from China).

Milk is local and hormone free.

I grow much of our produce and can/freeze/dry. What I don't grow, I buy mostly local. There are a few exceptions.
Bananas, citrus and a screaming good deal on something like asparagus. I'll buy a bunch of it and can or freeze.

For me, it's a constant work in progress to grow and buy more local/organic.

We use very few prepared foods, but I am definitely a label reader!

Deanna

Oops, meant to say we "don't eat much fresh water fish".

/t

I wondered about that, Tricia. :-)

I forgot to mention produce. I try to buy as much organic as I can, but don' always. I grow what I can when I can, but our weather doesn't cooperate. I often think about how spoiled I am to get apples and lettuce in June and tomatoes and peppers in January. (Although I rarely buy grocery store tomatoes.) So, right now I'm eating home grown tomatoes and peppers, and this winter I'll be eating home grown greens. In the meantime, I do my best to buy organic, unless it's just way too high.

Sally

Here is a quick article on milk.

As I read it - please read for yourself if you're interested - modern US milk is high in estrogen and other hormones compared to yesterday's milk. It supposedly has to do with the intensive production process of milking cows almost year-round. In one study, US milk was fed to Mongolian children who normally drank traditional milk, after a short period the children's estrogen levels rose. But apparently the hormones are in the milkfat, so skim milk has much lower levels.

This is, as I understand it, a different issue from the use of bovine growth hormone (rBGH). It is not hard to find milk from cows not injected with rBGH.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/12.07/11-dairy.html

laceyvail is right, there's a difference in grass fed and grass finished. My cattle get pasture in the summer, hay in the winter. That's all, other than an occasional powdered sugar donut from the day old bread rack, which makes them, of course, not certified organic. I also raise all the hay I feed them, so I know where their food comes from also.

It's pretty much impossible to eat entirely local/organic/chemical free, but I do the best I can on most days. I very seldom use pre packaged convenience items and if something has a bunch of ingredients that I can pronounce, I put it back 99% of the time. I don't buy food items from China because I don't trust the safety or the quality. I try to watch the fat, the salt, the high fructose corn syrup.

Occasionally, though, I have an A&W chili dog with a mug of root beer and that probably messes up a couple of months of healthy eating!

Annie

I buy almost all my foodstuffs at a major grocery store. I regularly get organic apples, celery, carrots and strawberries there but never pop for organic onions or bananas. Bovine growth hormones have never been approved in Canada for dairy cattle, so I don't have to worry about that in my milk. My grocery advertises their poultry and eggs as coming from local farms, so they can't be very free range or pastured unless they shovel snow or ice-skate for half the year. Organic meat is wayyyyy too expensive to even consider.

I justify feeding my family "conventional" food because I make almost everything from scratch and studiously avoid junk/processed food, which has all their needless chemical ingredients identified right there on their labels.

Funny you should ask just now... A couple of days ago I received a magazine from a local hospital with an article called " The Dirty Dozen! 12 foods to Eat Organic -- When shopping for pesticide free fruits and vegetables and other foods it pays to buy organic. "

12 MOST Contaminated Fruit & Vegetables

Peaches
Tomatoes
Apples
Sweet Bell Peppers
Celery
Nectarines
Berries
Cherries
Pears
Grapes ( especially imported )
Leafy Greens ( Spinach & Lettuce )
Potatoes

12 LEAST Contaminated Fruit & Vegetables

Onions
Avocado
Sweet Corn ( Frozen )
Pineapples
Mango
Asparagus
Sweet Peas ( Frozen )
Kiwi Fruit
Bananas
Cabbage
Broccoli
Papaya

Also Consider Organic for... Beef, Milk, Eggs

As for me... Well, I smoke so why should I pay extra for healthy foods... lol

Speaking of pineapple, before buying Dole products check the label... Same goes for Kellogg's Rice Krispies, the 12 oz. box is a product of Mexico.

Rita

"------As for me... Well, I smoke so why should I pay extra for healthy foods... lol ----"

But do make sure you smoke organic tobacco. :-)

I often wonder why populations in Hong kong, Macao, Singapore, etc. have the longest life span/expectance. Almost 100% of their food supply is from China, and they live in very polluted environments.

dcarch

I'm all over the map. I actually a weenie who enjoys reading up on food production methods, chemicals, etc. Natural resource managment is my field, and I teach a lot about various methods of growing things. Also thru that process I have developed local connections with people who farm. There's a whole controversy about the USDA label "organic" which many small growers feel is way to restrictive, and also way to bureaucratic and skewed in favor of large, commercial producers. I'm much more concerned about knowing where my food comes from, where the farms are and who the producers are than some type of label. I buy local or regional produce when I can. Most stuff I cannot afford to buy organic OR conventional out of season. For fruit, other than in-season, I mostly only eat apples and bananas which is all I can afford. I eat those conventional, and always peel apples. I can't afford many of the high pesticide veggies anyway. I buy organic celery, my one concession. I buy conventional potatoes and always peel. I can no longer eat green peppers so occasionally splurge on a conventional red pepper, which I can barely afford anyway so I don't buy organic. I'm lucky to have a great U-Pick place up the road for peaches, cherries, strawberries and some other fruits. I buy tomatoes in bulk from a produce farm and can for winter use. Also still lots of great farms in the area so local stores often carry regional produce.

Meat is mostly a non issue for me. I eat so little of it. I can't really afford most fish, I buy it rarely but then follow the Monterey Bay Aquarium's recommendations. Excellent Web site they have on the subject. Don't get me started on what's happening to the oceans, it is such a tragedy.

I've started buying the canned tuna and canned salmon in the health food store that is sustainably harvested. Since I use both the salmon and tuna as more of a condiment, even though they are twice the price of conventional, it isn't cost prohibitive for those small cans. I buy canned Pacific salmon for salmon patties. I eat freshwater fish from Michigan when I go every year. They have lots of contaminants, but I don't eat the fish that often. People say, "Aren't you worried about eating Lake Michigan fish?" and I say, "Well, that's why I have devoted my life to conservation!! As goes my Lake, so go I."

If I was a meat eater, I would try to develop relationships with local producers. I know a farmer who produces local organic meat if I was so inclinded. There are lots of cooperatives here where you can get organics, if you can afford it. Cheese, milk, eggs, produce, the whole nine yards. There are even businesses that will deliver it to you straight from a Lancaster cooperative. I can't afford most cheese anyway, only eat a few kinds and can't afford organic. But I limit my consumption. I buy organic milk. Meat is actually an area I would seriously want to buy organic, considering most toxins concentrate in the fats of milk, cheese, meat. But since I eat those things so rarely, that's my compromise. Also from what I have tasted, organic free range poultry is superior. I don't like the other meats anyway so I can't really judge.

For me, the most important thing in my food purchases is to support my LOCAL agriculture, and also local businesses. Even the local greengrocer, which has great prices, is a fun place to go. Most of the stuff comes from Mexico, but most of the shoppers are from there too! They carry stuff imported from the Middle East too. The store is filled with a whole variety of ethnicities. That's where I go for my out of season splurges. I enjoy educating myself about where my food comes from, and meeting and getting to know local producers and local business people.

Here is a link that might be useful: Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch

I rarely buy organic foods. If I'm buying some kind of packaged product sometimes I do because I try to buy the choice that has the fewest unrecognizable and/or otherwise "bad" ingredients. I almost never buy organic produce because of the price difference. Sometimes I do buy it at Costco because that just happens to be the best choice they offer and when I compare with the price at a regular grocery store it seems pretty good. I don't find any difference in the taste or "quality" compared with conventional produce.

In general I don't buy organic for a lot of reasons. I figure the best things I can do for my health are to eat a well balanced diet, exercise nearly every day, and not smoke or abuse alcohol. I try to make health related decisions based on sound scientific evidence not just whatever I read that may or may not be "true". Granted there are surely things that are "true" that aren't yet proven by sound scientific evidence but that's what I try to use to decide. I've yet to see any solid evidence that eating some organic food is going to do anything to improve my quality of life in the long run.

I have a different point of view than chi83. I'm more confident that saving for retirement might improve my overall quality of life in the long run - not to mention not being "organic food poor" now. I just don't think that starting to eat organic food halfway through my life - in a world full of pollutants in the water, air, etc. - is going to make any noticeable difference. So for me I don't find it to be a good "value" to spend a lot more money on organic food. I'd rather spend it on something else.

Of course everyone has the right to spend their money as they see fit. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. It's all about choices and priorities.

For me, my priority is my health. Including a wide variety of nutrition and avoiding things I believe are unhealthy, including meat and dairy. I don't use any chemicals in my home. I buy only organic. I use only natural beauty products. There are a lot of things that are outside of our control, like environmental pollutants, but I do everything I possibly can to reduce my own chemical exposure. I'm not perfect at it - I do slip up and use drugstore shampoo sometimes or eat some cheese. But it's my priority and it ends up being more expensive.

The way I view it is that disease and ill health is cumulative. You add up all the effects of malnourishment (and yes, the standard American diet is one of malnourishment), pollutants, chemical exposure, processed and chemically altered food and eventually the body can't handle it anymore. There's always a tipping point between what the body can process and what it can't, and that's where these tragic illnesses come in.

So I guess I don't understand the mentality of "well, we're already exposed through X, Y and Z so adding a little more won't hurt" because it can. There's always one point where it's a little too much. That's why I do all I can to control my own exposure knowing there will be things I can't control. Anyway, it's my opinion. Of course retirement is important, but in my viewpoint, it's more important to make sure you're going to LIVE until retirement. Most people disagree with me but I'm used to that. :) I'm grateful we live in a world where different opinions are okay.

I try to eat in a way that is not damaging to the environment. If we're not careful, we'll errode the earth's ability to sustain us in a high quality way. And I'm knee deep in the research, but it's not light or fun reading. Of course there are many other decisions and lifestyle choices we make that have environmental consequences, but eating is pretty high on the overall impact scale. Driving is higher though. We all have to make compromises, I'm not judging, I'm just saying that your own personal health is not the only reason to think about what you buy and where it comes from. There are many, many environmental and economic problems around the world caused by a toxin and fossil fuel driven agricultural system. Not to mention the almost total extinction of farmers here in the US due to economic reasons. I think we're somewhere around 2% of the population able to make a living farming. That's a national security issue, IMHO. There are a myriad of reasons to think about going organic, but I'm not saying you have to pick up my causes, just defending why I have them. Actually, unless you are exposing yourself constantly to some of the worst toxins, I'd say personal health is affected by such a myriad of factors that you can't expect just eating organice to make a huge difference. Eat organic but live next to a conventional apple orchard or busy road, and you'll still get exposed to tons of toxins. But spending time in areas with high quality air, water and soil and working with it, definately makes one feel better. I have lived both ways, with nature and against, and with is definately a whole other experience. But very difficult to achieve. At this point I'm pretty far away from it so I am certainly not judging anyone who says it's too much bother. But I can't say that it isn't fantastic to be able to access and eat high quality food either. However, I think the conventional approach to "organic" which is just to plop something with a label into your cart and think it's somehow better, is a bill of goods being sold to us by Madison Ave. There's a whole lot more to a "healthy" lifestyle than that. Meanwhile, I can't afford organic because BF and I are saving for our little cabin off the grid, lol! But I still spend as much time as I can out in the yard tending my tomatoes in pots. It's good for the soul, not just the body.

I agree, L, and I want food produced in the most sustainable manner I can find, maybe leaving some semblance of this earth to my grandchildren, so I'm not just thinking about my immediate lifetime. I also try to buy as locally as possible, to avoid the long distance trucking and petroleum use/pollution associated with that. Logistically, Canada is a lot closer than Brazil, if I'm buying imports.

There are so many factors to consider, and each person has to make their own decisions and do what they are comfortable with and can accomplish.

Think globally, act locally. I'm trying.

Annie (yeah, I guess I'm a tree hugger, and I stop and move turtles out of the road too...)

The why of buying organic and/or local foods comes down to an investment. How much are you worth, how much are the lives of any children worth? Not today but in the long run. Strawberries and peaches are two fruits that I enjoy the most but I wouldn't consider them if I had to purchase them at a store as they are the most contaminated fruits you can buy. Their soft skin absorbs everything and daily doses of chemicals don't do a thing for the human body. The cost can be mitigated by serving smaller or pret 1950 size portions which every one sholud doing anyway.

I have to say that I am all in favor of buying locally grown food and do so as much as possible. That of course does not equate to organic. Unfortunately I live in a major metro so no neighbors growing and selling stuff down the road. I tried a CSA farm one season but just didn't care for the variety/quantities - too much or too little. I buy a lot at the farmers market during the growing season however. Unfortunately that also sometimes does not equate to locally grown.