Do you have any air vents on your system? They are usually found near the boiler. Usually one on each loop. Sometimes 1 for the whole system. They wouldn't be used to release large amounts of air like when you drain the system but for small amounts of air. If you don't have one that would be a problem. If you have one it might not be working.

Did you know every time you introduce water into the system you let air in? The system should be filled one time. No need for garden hoses. Air causes noise.

You have not purged all the air out of the system. The garden hose method is the one I prefer, but the end of the hose has to be higher than the highest baseboard. Start purging with the lowest zone, up to the highest. Then if it circulates properly, the bleeder will remove the rest of the water. The best place for the bleeder is inserted into the top of the boiler. You can put a T on your safety valve and put the bleeder in the top of the T. The valve cap must face upward.

If you keep bleeding air, you will have to check for leaks, because you are losing water at that point. It could be being drawn into your house drinking water. If so, install a backflow preventer.

Leaking boilers have a reduced lifespan because of the oxygen being introduced into the water. You want to find the problem and fix it for good.

If the water coming through the garden hose is pressurized (as in, hubby hooks up the hose, turns on the fill valve to the system, thus water runs through the loop and out of the hose), why should it matter if the end of the hose is higher than the highest baseboard? This was exactly how the HVAC technician showed us to do, and he had the hose running into the basement sink, not up from the second floor.

I don't use the full house pressure in the hose. It's rare that I even have to deal with purging, but this way I can let the boiler and lines fill up slowly and push all the trapped air out and up through the hose.

By running a hose in the sink, I'd have to have high pressure to counteract the gravity flow into the sink out of the hose. Maybe you'd like my method.

The situation you're describing could have EVERYTHING to do with the expansion tank not working properly.

It may well be waterlogged (filled), not have the proper amount of pressure in it, or if it's a bladder tank, the bladder might have failed.

I don't suspect the tank, but tap on it anyway. Does it have a hollow sound to it? Put a bicycle valve pressure tester on the end. Is it equal to your system pressure?

Well, we bled the system again last night.

I passed along all the suggestions posted here by you wonderful people, but my beloved husband insisted on repeating his garden hose method. (Will someone please tell me why men can be so danged bull-headed and know-it-all?!?!) According to him, he did something different this time-- turned off the circulating pump or something, I don't know; he's never clear on explaining that stuff to me when I ask. Anyway, so far so good, the "waterfall effect" has disappeared. The heat kicked on sometime early this morning and all I heard was the occasional "tink" and "ding" of the pipes expanding, which was a blissful silence compared to what it used to be.

If for some reason this DOESN'T work, I'm calling a technician whether hubby likes it or not. I'd say six or seven failed attempts is reasonable before calling out a pro, wouldn't you? Sheesh!

What was the outcome?

We are having the same problem. Our system worked fine - very quiet, until we renovated our four story townhouse a few months ago and the plumbing contractor ran new pipes and baseboard in every room. The running water sound is very loud on the top floor of our house and it keeps us up all night. The plumber has been back four times to bleed the system and it doesn't help. He also installed a new expansion tank when he did the original work - could this tank be the problem?
He's now proposing adding some sort of expensive add on to the furnace, which will automatically bleed air out while refilling the system with more water. This drives me crazy, because the system worked really well for 26 years and suddenly developed noise after he ran new pipes.
We need advice. Thanks!

He's probably talking about an air scoop with air vent and a Fill-trol tank. I'm surprised you don't already have an air scoop and vent.

Why would we suddenly need an air scoop with an air vent and a Fill-trol tank after all these years? I just don't understand!

Are you getting hot water to all radiators? Did he change the circulator?

It could be that he still didn't get all the air out of the lines or the circulator could be noisy. I don't know why a new expansion tank would make noise, so I don't suspect that.

It sounds more that you need an air bleeder at your highest floor than at the boiler. Ask for specifics on the names of these items.

Hello CNVH,

Paul Meller from West Bloomfield, MI. (Just north of Detroit)

I too have the base board/hot water heat. I have three heating zones (White Rogers zone valves) with one circulator motor (Taco brand.) When I bleed my system periodically (in the summer), I turn off the furnace, attach a garden hose to the drains (one drain is located beneath each zone valve) I manually open up one valve at a time (with the manual dial on the valve) and let it bleed. I do this to each of the zones.

While bleeding each zone, I open up the pressure reducing valve so the water flows at full house pressure (60PSI). Before I close the drain, I put the pressure reducer valve back to normal. As you know, the system operates at 15 PSI.

I repeat the process on all three zones. Then turn back on the furnace. Make sure your air vent on the furnace is not corroded shut. They are inexpensive to replace.

It is important to periodically "flush" the system. If water gets old, it eventually gets corrosive. The valves, pump and lines begin to degrade.... which can cause leaks.

Then some may have an enviornmentally safe "anti-freeze" added to the system. This is in case of power failure during a deep freeze. What a disaster should pipes freeze in a hot water system. Good reason to have a back-up generator. Consult a professional if you may need anti freeze. It has to be the "safe" kind of anti-freeze, so if it may by chance feed in your house supply.... you will be safe.

Here's how to see if your system has a leak.... Just shut down the water feed to the system. Your system should hold the 15 PSI pressure on its own. You can do this during the summer, when the furnace is off. This will tell you if you have leaks, espeecially if you have pipes buried below cement on a lower level (like I have). The cement and ground touching the copper pipes will eventually cause a leak. I had leaks, so I had to "by-pass" some runs.... That's is another story, for another time.

I installed my Peerless Cast Iron Bolier myself about 10 years ago... with the above by-pass. It works just fine, very silent.

Hope this helps.

Paul Mellerowicz

Paul Mellerowicz said:

"It is important to periodically "flush" the system. If water gets old, it eventually gets corrosive. The valves, pump and lines begin to degrade.... which can cause leaks"

I refrain from entering negative remarks on the forum, but this is something that you should NEVER do.

Ideally, you will fill your boiler when it is new, add some boiler water conditoner, and never add water again. Each time you add water, you introduce oxygen, which results in rust on the steel. Adding fresh water to your system will reduce its lifespan proportionately.

A leaking boiler is doomed to failure; a well maintained leak-free boiler can last 50+ years, as evidenced in the field.

Hello baymee

I don't regard your remark as negative.... It has much logic. When we bought our house, the system was never flushed (running for about 17 years straight). That water was as black as old motor oil. I can't believe that it was good for the system. I thought it logical (on my own) to flush the system... but perhaps once a year may be overdoing it.

What is the boiler conditioner you speak of? How much and how do you add it? I should probably do this for mine.... immediatly, if not sooner.

And I will run the idea of "flush or not to flush... that is the question" through two boiler people I know here locally. I'll let you know what they think.

Again, your comment is not negative, but very thought provoking. Perhaps I'll not flush anymore as I do.

Paul Meller
West Bloomfield, MI.

I think your boiler men will agree not to flush the boiler. The black water is oxygen-free and won't cause rust. Sometimes steam boilers will have dirty water which will cause wet steam rather than the proper dry steam. This water should be drained, but only when necessary.

The product we use to condition water systems is Hydronic Formula No.5, with silicone SK-471. Made by Silver King Manufacturing Co. Warrington, PA 18976.

One quart, retail about $8, will do a 30 gallon boiler. The chemical action lasts one year and they say to use once each year and don't drain it.

Claims:

Removes sludges, frees and lubricates zone valves. Protects the pump by lubing the seal. Removes insulating sludge on submerged coils. Prevents clogging of automatic hot water valves and frees and lubes stuck flow valves. Makes you want to go out and get some today !

It deposits a non-insulating film throughout the entire heating system. Corrosion is reduced to a minimum. Contains no petroleum or petroleum distillates. Protects rubber, metal, plastics.

Hello Baymee,

That's sounds like good advice. I'll add some of that boiler additive very soon. As a note, I wasn't flushing out my boiler system totally every year as I might have said above. I would just run out some water through each zone to see the "clarity" of the water. It was always clear.... so I wouldn't run out much water. But as you say above, I should not have been doing this.

My system has been running on just water for the past ten years. I hope the annual addition of one quart of the boiler additive will help for the rest of its operation.

I have a 3/4 inch pipe plug right on top of the boiler (on top of the pop off valve)to add such an additive. Too bad I wasn't aware of this additive sooner. I would have been doing it.

Live, observe, and perhaps learn.

I see you post in other threads in the Heating and Air conditioning section. You give some indepth advice. Where do you find the time?

Paul M.

Find the time? I guess if you enjoy doing a little writing, sharing some knowledge, it's not too bad.

Paul,

Your approach to "flushing" the system would be correct for a STEAM heating system, but it's not for a forced hot water system.

If you have a residential steam boiler, it's advisable to remove at least a 5 gallon bucket of water a month. The water in the boiler becomes saturated with rust, scale, and minerals that precipate out, which serves only to waste fuel.

As bayme says, you want to add as little fresh water to the system as possible.

Water that's been in the system for any length of time is chemical dead -- it won't cause corrosion.

The "blackness" of the water could be due to many things depending on the kind of system you have. It could also be an additive put in the water, such as a lubricant for the circulator impeller or even an anti-freeze.

In short, though, don't add any more fresh water to your system than is absolutely necessary.