Ah CT - here we spent $90 last month for 4000 sq feet - with just ASHP.... but that was mostly A/C (and lights etc). Are you still heating in CT? To respond to the previous poster. Geothermal works great in the South (just like the North) - its just that it is overkill most of the time. My audit suggested I'd save $300 a year with geothermal but that was based on a reference house - it was down to about $100 compared to HE ASHP. Try to get $100 a year to ever payback - sure it saves money but you could save more clipping a coupon a week without the $20k upfront cost. How is this thread still alive? The savings of geothermal compared to oil in the North is amazing. Compared to ASHP in the South - it is pennies. There is an ad line that says installing geo is like taking 2 cars off the road. They must be some pretty efficient cars.... Unless you are comparing to oil in the North. The average car driving 12,000 miles a year costs about $2000 in energy (20 mpg at $3 a gallon). The average house uses less than that for HVAC. Cost is not the only concern but there is nothing clean about gas in a car - at least electricity can be clean.... CONC: Insulate and use geothermal if you can do horizontal loop or live in the North and your alternative is not NG. And drive a hybrid and/or right sized car. And don't use incandescent bulbs for lights on frequently.

It boggles my mind that people think 10 years is a long time. After installation, you pay each month (including financing) about what you were already paying anyway (probably less). You do it for 10 years, (especially with all the new government incentives, rebates, and low-interest financing now available) and after 10 years you're paying a ridiculously paltry amount for heat. Of course it makes sense. Think of the payback over 20 years once that loan is paid off! Even if you only end up paying even 1/2 of the normal cost over that period (including the cost of your system and electric), you're still saving substantially. I know not everyone lives in a home for that long, but seeing low energy bills does increase home values. I've seen homes sold almost immediately with their main advertising point being their geothermal system even in our horrible present climate while others still linger on the market. Not only that, but why not decrease your monthly bills slightly (before the loan is paid off)? Slightly lower bills, a higher sales price which will pay off the rest of that loan - still makes sense. We had someone come out to our house and they specifically calculated everything from current estimated heating costs, heating/cooling with geo, then savings/payback period. This was a full service option, including thermostats, etc. Finding that should not be difficult. One argument I saw above made no sense. If it really is worth insulating your home to use a normal system, it is a no-brainer to insulate your home using geo. Whether you decide to use geo or not, you can't say, "Well, normal is better, because we insulated, too." That makes no sense. Insulate either way. Then compare. The financial analysis does not make much sense, either. Yes, it would be wonderful if we could just stop paying the oil company, live without heat, and invest that money! Realistically, while you could want to put away the whole $25,000, you really are still using it for heat either way over those 14 years as projected. Geo, with the loan, electric, etc, will cost about the same each month as heat before the loan is paid off, so you can't just pretend that money could be invested elsewhere. Use it upfront with geo, use it over several years with oil, it makes no difference. That money is being spent on heat. Should it be spent on something worthwhile, or just, at the end of 10 years, have you still spending the same amount on more heat with oil? Geo will typically initially cost you a little less (including the loan and electricity) per month than you would be paying otherwise, then suddenly drop dramatically to only the cost of using the system as soon as that loan is paid off. That's money you would have spent anyway each month with your normal system (even though some of it went to financing, it is still less that what you would have paid for oil). Then suddenly, once the loan is gone, you actually DO have perhaps $1,000 a year in money saved that you can invest if you wish over 10 years. If, with financing costs, it does cost more per month than your normal heating system, that's one thing; but if not, the argument that it is wasting money is not valid. You're spending it anyway. Might as well spend it on something that will, in the future, save you tons of money. (Not just a little, a lot.)

where does one find "degree days Centigrade scale" for their climate? I am in Sarnia, Ontario and this is an area where a heat pump supposedly feasible. (i would mate it with a high efficiency furnace), but all the techs i speak to have advised against it saying i am wasting my money, it won't work...etc. I have gotten a couple of quotes for 16 seer 2 stage heat pumps with HE furnace and they have been 11-12K. i can get the same setup with 16 seer ac for about 8K... doesn't that seem like a huge jump for a heat pump over an a/c condensor? i'm about to give in and just go with an a/c unit, but the math says it is about 30% cheaper to heat my house with at heat pump over a 95% efficency furnace...and that is using a COP of 2.5 at 30 deg f. i am thinking about importing my own equipment from the states where prices seem much more reasonable (96% amana furnace 16 seer 2 stage heatpump, coil, txv for $3800) and just having a local guy who is willing to install it. that blows some of the rebates that are available, but it still might be worth it. all i know is it would take more than a decade (and likely much more...) to recoup an extra $4k.

Niabiaxxmoi, Upkeep on a ground-source heat pump is going to be a lot higher than on a gas furnace/air-air AC combo. A furnace has much lower complexity and higher economies of scale of manufacture. Note that zoning is not something that will save much money in a well insulated and sealed home compared to a poorer structure. I am going to disagree on some points. It is better to knock on doors than place flyers; ask any professional community organizer. Best to do both door to door and flyers. Just be sure to have a woman in the mix for door-knocking. Other women are much more apt to open up for a woman than a man if they are alone. Stay away from the mailboxes. Some mean-spirited person may rat you out to the Postal Dept. No, they won’t send you to Gitmo, but the max fine is the postage that you’d use to mail the flyers. Take into account the difficulty of an added flue pipe for an added gas water heater when counting your chickens. It should not be a problem, but on rare properties, it can be. OFF TOPIC WARNING: This may be splitting hairs in some views, but New York State does not have property tax. All property tax is local and it is not particularly high in New York State (I.e. the real New York.) National average property is about 1.3%. There are lots to quibble with in these numbers since there are so many exemptions and technical differences. According to my information, New York City and fellow travelers in the far Southeast (the other New York) has a very low property tax expressed on a % basis. That is part of the reason they must constantly siphon off revenue from the rest of the state to support themselves. They have a tiered system for residential properties. Adjusting for other vagaries, the rate varies from 0.6% in Brooklyn to 0.8% in NYC. I believe that is for homes with 1-3 families. If there are 4 or more residences in a building, the rate skyrockets. By contrast, in Monroe County, on the North coast of New York, the effective tax rate is more like 3%. In Rochester, more than half the property tax goes to public schools. Of course the assessed value of the property plays heavily into the actual dollar amount that you pay.