Here's the original kitchen elevations:

This post was edited by chris401 on Sun, Jan 12, 14 at 23:11

Here's a couple revised versions of the kitchen elevations, showing some options.

Thanks again for any thoughts

This post was edited by chris401 on Sun, Jan 12, 14 at 23:12

Where's your MW? What are the clearances between the island and wall cabinets? How many people will work in this kitchen? Where will the china storage go? I only see enough cabinet room for everyday spices and some staples. I can see the bulk of foodstuffs going in the pantry, but I don't see a place for dishes.

The mud room and pantry and coat closet locations also seem odd. Are there two separate entries here? Because the mudroom and pantry usually need to be in close proximity at the family entry, as well as the coat closet.

Your kichen aisle looks a bit narrow if there is any chance that more than one person will be using it at the same time. Cozy if you're still lovey-dovey newly-weds but irritation making when there two of you trying to get the family launched out for the day. It would better if two could pass each other straight-on rather than sidling by each other. It doesn't look like you're pinched for space on the other side, either. W/o dimensions it's hard to tell the width but I would consider 54" about the right size. Four feet at a pinch. Much over five feet could be too much, though. Be sure to take into account counter over hang (usually 1.5 inches for each counter edge.)

The most useful thing you can do is draw a plan on graph paper, with careful dimensions plotted on it. You'll get better advice, if you do. Elevations don't portray spatial arrangements very well.

Have you considered a range/w single oven (devoted to roasting and broiling) located under your vent hood, as well as another single oven generally devoted to baking. It can be mounted at any point in the wall, either under counter or part way up.

Roasting meat/fish and broiling same can generate smoke, odors and grease (HOGS). If the ovens aren't under the hood, especially in an open plan set-up like yours then they will likely migrate around the house. The HOGS generated by baking gingerbread (in another wall-oven) aren't objectionable, so if they aren't exhausted there's no problem. It's also very useful to have an oven really close to your cooktop if you do any sear-roasting or finish dishes cooked on top or in the oven on the other surface. I do that a lot. Plus I use my range's ovens to hold things at temp while I finish other parts of the dish. I hate traipsing around the kitchen with hot stuff in my hand. Having two different ovens allows you more freedom to choose varying sizes, fuels, multi-purpose features, etc.

HTH

L.

with a pantry half the size of the kitchen,one assumes daily frequent retrieval of shelved items will occurr.[saying that-there is a lot of just "space" in the pantry].I would swap fridge with ovens because the cook will be less inclined to bump into other people at the fridge as she/he moves along path from pantry back to sink/cooking/prep area. Fridge use is frequent and regular....oven use is episodic.I'd get a range and non integrated hood-generally centered on the back wall,but a little this way or that is ok. Don't know where to put microwave-maybe on end of island,facing out, if the paths are wide enough. Jam-ups of people in this kitchen strikes me as a big potential on a regular basis. I like the modern feel and open-ness you're going for but maybe do some fine tuning.

I would offset the sink from the range so they were not back to back. A person at the sink will be elbowing someone at the range and vice versa. If you don't have 42" between the perimeter and island, I would suggest that you have at least that much.

Wow, some really great thoughts, suggestions and questions! Thanks! I will respond in a bit with some replies after I look at the drawings, which are dimensioned.

As live_oak mentioned, if at all possible, I would swap the pantry and the utility room. Is there more than laundry there (i.e., hot water/furnace etc?). It is far more convenient to enter from the driveway and dump things off there than walk all the way around to unload. If infrastructure is in the way, you could use a smaller pantry and utilize the under utilized area just opposite the existing utility room. A 2nd fridge in the pantry or in a butler's pantry could allow you to shrink the main fridge down, saving some space.

I would consider making the pantry & utility a walk-through space rather than two separate rooms.

Ok, the aisle between back wall appliances and kitchen island is 42", which is better than our last house (36") but short of the minimum suggested by liriodendron. Good point about counter overhang. I will keep that in mind.

Live Wire Oak:
MW was intended to be a drawer on the island facing "In" to the appliance area (i.e., in to the aisle). It would go to the left of the sink, with DW to the right. Not pictured in the elevations, however.

I realize the layout of closet/mud/utility/pantry might not fit for everyone. I will attach a larger shot of the floor plan to show the front entry. To be honest, it was tough on whether to flip the pantry and utility (which would allow for food drop off from garage), but we went this direction to allow the clutter-prone sections to be closed off with a pocket door (which hides the mud, utility, and a desk area). We thought a pantry was a better to have near the powder than utility. Coat closet is still relatively close to entry for when guests arrive. And our daily use coats will be hung on hooks at the mud room for exit through garage.

Dishes were intended to go in drawers, with glasses in upper cabinets. The island houses a lot of drawers. There are definitely less uppers than our last place, but we found it difficult to use upper cabinets anyway. China would go in a few lower cabinets on the other side of the island (not pictured) along with some table linens. Or worse case, in the incredibly huge pantry. :)

L-
Great suggestions; I will think about doing a 36" range plus a separate wall oven mounted below counter. That might work and also avoid having to do a "dual column" with the fridge on one side and the double wall ovens on the other.

With respect to increasing aisle, I'm hesitant to move the island further because I like how it lines up with the entry and the space between kitchen and living is where the dining table goes (very open plan), so I feel it needs to have breathing room. But I may think about moving the "back" wall with appliances to allow for an additional 6-8" or so. The trouble there is that it reduces the size of the utility, which right now just barely allows W/D to be side-by-side on the indicated wall (60" of space). And my wife really likes the idea of a larger utility/laundry with room to lay out clothes on the counter opposite the W/D.

herbflavor-
yes, the pantry is pretty large. Maybe too large. We originally had it smaller and utility bigger, but switched to this with the intention of using pantry as a secondary kitchen area. There will be a full counter with electrical outlets to leave out a few appliances that can sit out full time without cluttering the open kitchen area (mixer, toaster, can opener maybe). So kind of like a butler's pantry but not really I guess.

Good suggestion about moving fridge to the other side. That might work. We originally placed it there because we only had one full length column (the fridge) and leaving the bottom of the kitchen "open" (w/out fridge) was thought to let more natural light in from the windows at that end. With two columns (adding the wall ovens) that defeated that point. Might revisit now. Also would be closer to garage entry for loading in groceries.

MW drawer, as mentioned, intended for island facing aisle. One of the Sharp drawer MW.

Palimpsest-
Good suggestion. We lined it up that way for symmetry; seemed to make sense to have the sink directly in the middle of the island. If we go with the suggestion of range+separate oven (rather than double wall ovens), that opens up the options on where we can place range along the back wall.

Again, many thanks to you all. It's very helpful. I was thinking this was a very good size kitchen relative to what I had before. But maybe not.

Here's a larger view of the floor plan. Showing the entry, garage, etc. If that helps.

This post was edited by chris401 on Sun, Jan 12, 14 at 23:08

Gooster and palimpsest:

Just saw your two posts, written while I was posting my lengthy entry. Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions. I agree that a pantry upon entry would be more convenient for groceries, and that was our original instinct. We went with utility, however, because we didn't want the utility to be opposite from the powder room. A pantry just seemed like a better thing for a guest to wander into than the utility.

The current set-up let's us shut down the messy zone (mud, utility, cluttered desk) when guests come over with a close of the pocket door. The utility will house the W/D, all cleaning supplies, broom closet, etc.

But you have me re-thinking whether to swap these again.

FYI, the "bump-out" at the bottom is a built-in desk alcove. The flow of the house is intended be: walk in from garage; drop off coat, school bag muddy shoes at cubby in mud room; drop off mail, car keys, and other sundry things in desk (we used to accumulate piles of "stuff" in our kitchen island; this is desk will take that place).

And I know this sounds stupid, but I have really sweated the grocery issue relative to the pantry. So much so that I tried to convince my wife we could use a "pass-through" door or dumb-waiter set up between the garage and pantry. She rightly told me that was pretty dumb.

I am going to also think about the combined walkthrough room that you suggest. But my wife has a thing against keeping chemicals and washing in the same area as the food stored in the pantry. So it's probably out.

thanks again. Really appreciate the thoughts.

Ok, you guys have caused me to doubt this kitchen layout (more specifically, how the pantry/utility/mudroom is arranged). But I have tried to think of a better option and I cannot. My architect likewise thinks this is the best approach. Does anyone else have a better suggestion?