Another Question about Yeast

17 years ago

What is instant yeast? Pardon my ignorance, but is it the same as rapid rise? I want to make the Beautiful Burger Buns but I can't find instant yeast.

Thanks for your help and all the wonderful things I've learned on this forum!

Whistle

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Comments (62)

hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Ann & Annie:
You are both right BUT ! it is only right also, to answer
the question that was asked.
Not just shrug it off and say they both work the same.

It is nice to know what is RIGHT, - - - - RIGHT !!!
Then with experience she can do whatever she wants.
But at least she will know the difference, as a beginner.

I don't worry about who or what either but
I'm so dumb,everything turns out Good.

Must have a Guardian Angel watching over me.

Have even put Baking Powder in with Yeast to see the results.
Nothing different, maybe a little lighter.

It would have been nice to have all this knowledge
available in an instant, when I was a lot younger.

I had to learn by experience.
Helping in 4 Pizzeria's; owned by different friends.( with out pay )
Used a little of everyone's Knowledge.

I have to go to WFD now.
Bye, Lou
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I have to say I'm with Annie and Ann on this one. I believe the original poster wanted to make a recipe calling for instant yeast and only had rapid rise on hand. And the answer is, yes - she could use rapid rise.

There's definitely a science to baking, but you don't have to be a scientist to bake.

Lori
Related Discussions
annie1992 - about yeast rolls?
Q
Comments (13)
Here they are with Annie's comments: I recently made a couple of batches of honey wheat bread that I really liked. My "white bread" family chose the honey wheat dinner rolls over the white ones at Christmas and it's wonderful warm with some honey or jam. HONEY WHOLE WHEAT BREAD 3-1/2 to 4 cups all purpose flour 2-1/2 cups whole wheat flour 2 pkg. active dry yeast 2 tsp. salt 1 cup milk 1 cup water 1/2 cup honey 3 Tbsp. oil 1 egg In large bowl, combine 2 cups all-purpose flour, 1 cup whole wheat flour, the yeast, and salt and mix well. In saucepan, heat milk, water, honey, and oil until a thermometer reads 120-130 degrees F (warm) Add liquid mixture to flour mixture and stir to combine. Beat this batter for 3 minutes. Then, gradually stir in rest of whole wheat flour and enough remaining all-purpose four to form a firm dough. Sprinkle work surface with flour and knead dough, adding more flour if necessary, for 5-8 minutes until smooth and satiny. Place dough in a greased bowl, turning the dough in the bowl to grease the top. Cover and let rise in a warm place about 1 hour, until double in bulk. Punch down dough and divide into 2 pieces. On lightly floured surface, roll or press each piece of dough to a 14x7" rectangle. Starting with shorter side, roll up tightly, pressing dough into roll with each turn. Pinch edges and ends to seal and place dough, seam-side down, into greased 9x5" bread pans, making sure short ends of bread are snugly fitted against the sides of the pans. Cover and let rise in warm place until the dough fills the corners of the pans and is double in bulk, 30-40 minutes. Bake in preheated 375 degree oven for 35-40 minutes, until bread is golden brown. Remove from pans and cool on wire racks. I like to brush the bread with butter when it's still hot from the oven for a softer crust. Well, now I'm going to have to bake some more bread, maybe that Onion Braid....or some Maple Oatmeal....or Honey Wheat. Annie Sybil, here is that bread recipe, our family holidays wouldn't be the same without these rich and slighly sweet rolls. Grandma made cinnamon rolls out of the same dough. I do use bread flour, or add vital wheat gluten to the regular flour for a better rise. I usually double the recipe, sometimes triple it. I also make a single batch in my breadmaker on the "dough" cycle, then just form it into rolls and bake them. BREAD (GRANDMAS RECIPE) 1/3 cup sugar 1 cup milk 1/3 cup butter 2 eggs 1 pkg yeast 1 tsp salt 4 Â 4 Â½ cups flour vital wheat gluten (optional) Mix milk, butter and sugar, heat until butter melts and liquid is very warm. Add eggs, then beat in flour, salt and yeast until stiff dough forms. Turn onto floured surface and knead until smooth and elastic, 7 Â 8 minutes. Turn dough into greased bowl and let rise in warm place until double. Punch down dough, shape into loaves or dinner rolls and let rise again. Bake at 350 until done (25 - 30 minutes for loaves, 12-15 minutes for dinner rolls) Makes 1 large or two small loaves or 18 dinner rolls Annie (posted by Carol)
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Grainlady - About the role of salt in yeast breads?
Q
Comments (5)
Sue- Is it the wisdom of the ages or science from the experts? This is what I've read from "experts" - I'm just the person sitting behind the keyboard typing after I've gathered a stack of books by my side. According to Shirley Corriher in "Cookwise", salt plays three roles in dough: It enhances flavor, controls bacteria, and strengthens dough by tightening gluten. She even suggests if the water you are using in your breads is soft (low mineral content), you'll want to be sure to add high-mineral salt - which are natural sea salts, not table salt. The minerals in natural sea salt also play into yeast activity. But what is too much salt... As little as 1/3 t. of salt per cup of flour can be enough to noticeably slow yeast growth. Salt can be added intentionally to slow yeast growth. More salt may be added to dough, such as in a bakery setting when you would want to slow down fermentation until the next shift of workers comes on. The small amount of salt we add to yeast and naturally-leavened breads doesn't really give a salty taste, nor does it contribute largely to the daily sodium intake in a normal diet or normal sodium amounts for people who aren't watching sodium intake, but salt helps to bring out the flavor of the fermentation. As anyone who has ever left the salt out of a recipe can attest, bread without salt is somewhat insipid - but that's because our taste is often trained to like salt and salty flavors. Then there's all the hub-bub about when to add salt. I wait to add salt towards the end of the kneading, along with the fat. I only add the fat early if I want a close crumb - or an almost cake-like texture (for sandwich bread as an example - breads that need to hold together when held in your hands and keep spreads from dripping through). The gluten will have an easier time developing, and will develop quicker (meaning you will need to spend less time mixing and kneading) when you wait to add the salt after gluten development. Once you add the salt, the gluten really tightens up. You can actually feel the difference in the dough. Peter Barham in "The Science of Cooking" says "...the salt acts to modify and control the action of the yeast. Harold McGee in "Keys to Good Cooking A Guide to Making the Best of Foods and Recipes" and "On Food and Cooking": Salt contributes to a balanced taste and intensifies aroma in bread, but it also affects structure and texture. Salt makes a dough less sticky, and gluten more stretchy, and the finished loaf lighter. In sourdoughs, salt helps control the growth of acid-producing, gluten-weakening bacteria. [So there's that bacteria mentioned by Shirley Corriher as well.] Salt isn't a leavening agent, but it helps control the leavening agent, as you thought. You can make perfectly good bread with very little or no salt at all (other than the naturally occurring salts in water, other ingredients, etc. - there is always a source for some sodium, even without added salt). But as one book pointed out, when it came to taste tests, people liked breads with more salt than less salt. As a person who doesn't use a lot of salt in their diet, I'd choose less salty flavor - so flavor is subjective. When using less salt in breads, you just need to watch the rise because it will be faster than normal. Peter Barham, in his book, intentionally made bread with lower salt amounts to see how little it could actually be, and he came to the conclusion you didn't need salt at all and that the bread tasted fine. "Fine" isn't what most people expect homemade bread to taste like, however. So you can use a long cold rise to develop flavors, instead of adding salt, or as much salt. And there is the old rule of thumb... If you reduce the salt in a bread recipe, be sure to reduce the yeast as well. So if you cut the salt by 50%, reduce the yeast by 50%. I was also taught in cooking and baking classes that a little salt makes sweet things taste sweeter, hence the ever-present "pinch of salt" in things you wonder what difference did that small amount actually make? There are a lot of factors to keeping bread fresh. Choose enriched breads and sourdough, instead of lean doughs. If you want your bread to stay fresh longer add fenugreek or rosemary because these ingredients are antioxidants, "they prevent oxygen in the air from combining with compounds in the dough, thus acting as a preservative by preventing chemical changes in the dough." I add an acid ingredient to whole wheat breads in the form of ascorbic acid, which is another antioxidant you can add to aid keeping bread fresher longer, but also counteracts the effects of Glutathione in wheat germ, which can damage the gluten strands. Yeast also works better in a mildly acidic mixture. But don't add an acid to naturally-leavened breads because they are already acid enough. My personal favorites for keeping bread fresher longer are coconut oil, agave nectar, and chia seeds - and you won't find these ingredients discussed in any books by "experts". Coconut oil was used in commercial baked goods until the mid-20th century because it helped lengthen shelf-life. As a medium-chain fat, coconut oil doesn't go rancid as quickly as polyunsaturated oils. When pressure was put on the market to use hydrogenated fats and polyunsaturated fats, the shelf-life was shortened, foods went rancid quickly, and they had to find new stabilizers and chemicals to use instead of coconut oil. Coconut oil was used for popping corn at the movies and sports stadiums. They popped large amounts long before it was needed and packed into containers to be used later, and using coconut oil in it kept it fresher longer. Nobody likes stale popcorn.... Coconut oil aids in slowing down mold growth as well. Agave nectar does an excellent job of holding moisture in baked goods, as does chia seeds. Both keep moisture in the crumb of breads from migrating through the crust, so they slow staling - which is an interesting read in and of itself. If you are going to freeze your bread, there is a lot of science about using honey in your breads instead of sugar. The honey will aid in keeping the moisture in the crumb, and I suspect agave nectar has a similar quality. Hope the experts have given you the answers you were looking for. -Grainlady
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Yeast questions
Q
Comments (6)
It sounds like you have moved from one type of yeast to another and you my not realize the difference between the two. "Big bag of yeast" - was probably ACTIVE DRY YEAST. If you are now using an INSTANT yeast and substituting it in a recipe that calls for an active dry yeast, you need to reduce the amount by 25%, otherwise it will rise too fast. Active Dry Yeast - The most common yeast used in recipes. Fleishmann's active dry yeast was developed in 1943. This type of yeast is most commonly proofed in water/sweetener before using. Instant & Fast-Rising Yeast - It comes in many brands, and each is a little different. SAF-Instant, Red Star Quick-Rise, Fleishmann's Rapid-Rise, and Bread Machine Yeast are all a type of Instant & Fast-Rising Yeast. SAF-Instant is a product of genetic engineering and are made from "super" yeast. This yeast looks like tiny worms. The others are made into smaller particles to hydrate quickly and work faster - but all work faster than active dry yeast. These types of yeast products were designed to mix directly with dry ingredients for quicker mixing (no proofing in water/sweetener necessary). When using an instant/fast-rising yeast, you can mix the yeast in with a portion of the flour and then add the liquid. You need to increase the temperature of the liquid to 125Â°-130Â°F to add it to this mixture. The reason the temperature needs to be higher is because it quickly cools in that much bulk of ingredients. You can also use a rapid method and eliminate the first rise. After you knead the dough, you cover it (I use the bowl I used for mixing) and allow it to rest for 10 minutes. Then it's ready to form/pan, allowed to rise, then bake. As Linda mentioned, slower rises yield more flavor - but "flavor" is subjective. Most people don't consume homemade bread often enough, nor from different mixing techniques, to notice the differences in "flavor". If you treat your family with a loaf of bread made in 1-hour in a bread machine, I'm going to bet they won't complain about flavor loss from using an instant type of yeast and fast method. Back to the subject... If you wish to go ahead and proof an Instant/Fast-Rising yeast in water and sweetener, that can also be done. Just remember to reduce the amount by 25%, if you are substituting it in a recipe that calls for ACTIVE DRY YEAST, and keep the proofing liquid temperature 100Â°-110Â°F. BTW - I have several recipes where I use 1 T. active dry yeast for 2# of dough (4 cups flour). If I use SAF-Instant instead of active dry yeast, I reduce the amount by 25%. -Grainlady
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Yeast question
Q
Comments (6)
What allows yeast to grow to abnormal amounts on the skin and ears, or other parts of the body is due to an off pH balance. An ear canal that is irritated from food or airborne allergies the dog starts scratching bacteria gets in with ear wax then attracts yeast spores to germinate. This whole process usually starts with allergies either atopy or food and until you get to the cause it usually becomes a vicious cycle. First you need to have the ear debris cultured, apply the meds given than try and work on the cause. From a diet perspective which is also the easiest fix is to try eliminating as may grains from the diet as possible starting with wheat. In fact finding a grainless diet is the most productive with ruling out food allergies. Second is atopy reasons which is the hardest to fix. Dogs that have allergies to grasses, pollens, molds etc. need to avoid these things as best possible and need some xtra care in treating the problems as well. Antihistamines, fish oil, desensitizing treatments are all that's available but not all work.When ever I am helping with a yeast problem I always try the diet route first and many times that's all it takes, but there are alot of hard core atopy allergies that require more treatments. Just remember not all ear problems are yeast and not all are bacterial, sometimes they are one or the other many times both and need to be cultured to treat both correctly.
...See More
annie1992
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lori, Like you I read the question as "this recipe calls for one kind of yeast, I have another kind, can I use it anyway?"

That is how I answered the question, as it certainly can be used anyway. It is why I was also careful to say that there could be slight differences in rising time or flavor, but that it would still work.

Annie
annie1992
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Oh, and Whistle, of course you can make bread, and it'll be darned good bread too. Heck, before you know it, I'll be reading that you are making bagels and croissants and who knows what!

Annie
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Sorry Ladies :
4 agains't 1. Guess I'm wrong. I have to be a real dummy, to think like I do.

I thought the Question was

" is Instant Yeast the same as Rapid Rise "

I never said she couldn't use it for her Burger Bunns

Whistle:
I apologise if I misled you and for all the confusion I have caused.
Lou

Lori: ???????????????
lindac
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
There are so many variables in bread baking and the rise....the heat of your kitchen the moisture in the flour the age of the yeast as well as the type of yeast that "in real life" you will notice very little if any difference.
Fleishman's Instant is what I use almost all of the time, and I keep it for years in the freezer....it does seem to lose a little oomph after a couple of years....but I just let the dough sit until it has doubled. Before the years of machines to bake "homemade" bread; machines that allowed you to load ingredients push a button and a few hours later have a loaf of hot bread,w ith none of the judgement involved in making bread "by hand"...no feeling the dough's texture, no judging when it had doubled in volume, no "window pane" test, no knead until smooth and elastic....manufacturers had to find a way of drying yeast so it would do it's thing fast and in a very predictable manner.
But if you are making bread with your hands....you can use any yeast you want...even cake yeast or a sourdough starter.....and you will have better bread than any you can buy!
Linda C
lowspark
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
As a complete neophyte to the world of baking bread, I just have to comment. At this point, I'm not as interested in making lots of different kinds of bread with lots of different kinds of flour & yeast and lots of different methods. I just want to buy one kind of yeast (in the envelopes) and find recipes that suit that yeast.

So, off I go, looking at lots of cookbooks and tossing the vast majority aside because they call for all kinds of things I don't understand. Oy!

And then I come here and get wonderful detailed explanations from grainlady, et al, that educate me about what it is I'm avoiding (LOL) along with great encouragement from Annie and AnnT, et al, that makes me think I shouldn't avoid those recipes after all.

What I'm saying is, I like reading both kinds of posts. The kind that give me the science and minute details and the kind that say, go for it! AND the kind that tell about how someone DID go for it and their great results.

And I also believe that getting in a huff every time someone on the forum says something opposite from you must be exhausting!
foodonastump
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
"What I'm saying is, I like reading both kinds of posts. The kind that give me the science and minute details and the kind that say, go for it!"

DITTO!!!
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I wasn't going to comment anymore on this Post but
I forgot something.

Grainllady;
I just wanted to " Thank You " for your Technical input.
for someone just starting to bake it is a good thing.

It is good for those who know it all too !!!
You know the kind.
I don't need your advice, I've done it all, " sure " LOL

There is always room in my brain for more ,
or it would be paralized.

Thanks again, from one who appreciates your input.
LOU
User
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou, I take exception to your suggestion that anyone sharing their own experience is some how unappreciative or disrepectful to Grainlady.

Grainlady has been around the cooking forum for many years, and her advice is highly respected. I have always appreciated what she has to offer.

The fact is that this is a cooking FORUM. Webster defines "forum" as "a public meeting place for open discussion", indicating an exchange of more than one idea and opinion. In answering Whistler's question, I wanted to let her know that it doesn't have to be complicated. That doesn't discount Grainlady's invaluable input. It just means that you can make a loaf of bread without a degree. It's as simple as that.

Good to know the background, but don't let all that information get in the way of you just putting a few simple ingredients together to make a simple loaf of bread.

As far as having an open mind, I have personally benefited greatly from this cooking forum. My mind is open to all kinds of new recipes, methods, and ingredients. I try many and stick with what works for me. And when my opinion or advice is disagreed with, I don't threaten to leave the forum or dismiss the discussion.

Seriously, Lou, this is not meant as an affront to you, but if you're going to throw stones occasionally, then you'll have to let the recipients explain their position. No offense is meant.

Ann
whistle_gw
Original Author
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I did it! I did it! I did it!!!!! I made those rolls tonight and had hamburgers, baked beans and sauteed onions! And they (the rolls) were delicious!!! And they got that way because of ALL the valuable information I got from this forum!!! If my original question was somewhat unclear, I apologize. I was indeed asking if it was okay to use what I had. And when I purchase the instant yeast, I'll try again. I do so appreciate everybody's input. You are all so knowledgeable. Can you tell I'm excited?
Annie, I don't know about the croissants and bagels. That might be a stretch. HA!
Peace and goodwill to all. Whistle
User
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Congratulations Whistle. We all knew you could do it. And Annie's right. It won't be long before you are making croissants, bagels and even your own sourdough bread.

Ann
annie1992
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Add another congratulations, Whistle, I knew they'd be great. Your next batch will be great too and then you just won't be able to help yourself, you'll be baking all kinds of breads!

Annie
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Another 'atta-girl' from me, too! I love making bread. Now you'll be experimenting all over the place! ;)

Lori
lindac
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
See? Easy wasn't it! Just don't over think it....bread is Pretty much flour and water....salt if you must and yeast, which can come out of the air....but using a couple of teaspoons of packaged yeast is a good thing!
Enjoy your home made buns. Pretty soon your family will come to expect it!
Linda C
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Ann:
I just came back and saw your last Thread.
Why is it always made to look like I am the guilty party.

The Original Question was :
What is Instant Yeast ? is it the same as Rapid Rise ?

It wasn't " Can I use Rapid Start, instead of Instant ".
True it was clarified at the end.

You changed it around to your own way of thinking.

In my first answer, It said, they were not the same.
It gave minor adjustments and the reasons.

I thought this was good for her to know for future.

You and the others are the ones, that more or less said,
OH ! don't worry, it will be fine.

You were right but that wasn't the right answer for some one just starting.

I thought it would have been the right thing to know,
you can do it but don't say ,
Oranges, Bannana's and Apples are the same.

Sure they can all be eaten and mixed into a fruit salad.

Or " don't let all that info get in your way "

Go back and reread the Threads.

I don't throw Stones, just the Truth.

Without all the tech info thru the years, you wouldn't be able to do what you're doing now.

You are critizing the wrong person, because you know I do everything, flying by the seat of my pants.

I don't think there is anyone on the CF who has done so many crazy Recipes,( of my own )
that are pretty good.

I'm sure there are many Cf members, who are reading all this but won't comment.
Can't make waves!!!

Whistle:
All this is not about you.
Keep doing your thing but learn some of the tech things as you go along your way.
It dosen't get in your way !!!

If something fails, make Bread Crumbs but at least, you may know why it failed.
LOU

PS:
Ann, I love you but I'm getting tired of defending myself!,
when all you have to say is,
GOOD POINT,LOU
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou, I have to jump in here. Ann didn't turn it around to her way of thinking - Whistler made the point that it was HER way of thinking, too.

Seriously, I honestly believe one doesn't NEED to know all the background and science behind baking. I love having all that knowledge now, but I didn't know a lot of that before this thread, and I've been making great pizza dough and breads for over 30 years. I've experimented, as you have, I've been advised by pizzaria owners, and by the family of my best friend in NY whose grandparents came through Ellis Island from Italy. I just don't feel the need to expound on my "qualifications" to make bread dough everytime I post my opinion about it.

I don't doubt that you feel defensive, and feel like "the girls are ganging up on you", but if you truly read all the posts objectively, you might see that you've put everyone else on the defensive as well. And why is that okay?

I say let's just say that everyone is allowed their own opinion and if it doesn't coincide with yours, then agree to disagree.

I've been registered on this forum for several years now. While I have just started posting here again after a bit of a hiatus, I have read most of the posts. One thing I've noticed is that you seem to consider anyone's opinion whose different from yours as challenging you. If you constantly feel defensive because someone else has a differing point of view, maybe it's not something the other poster is saying. Maybe it has something to do with how you're taking it. Just a thought. Whereas you would like Ann to say "Good point, Lou", it would be nice to see you say the same to her. I don't know why you see there's a difference.

I don't believe anyone here is challenging your knowledge. They're just expressing another view. Surely that's allowed??!

Lori

P.S. One other thing I've noticed is that you seem to always want the last word, whether it's to berate Ann or anyone else with differing ideas, or to go off in a huff and threaten to leave the forum. I hope that doesn't happen on this thread.
dixiedog_2007
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lori I don't know how anyone could have said it any better. Lou, I'm not trying to pick on you and to the best of my knowledge I haven't. All I have had to say is "sigh."

This forum is a wonderful board and I love to come here to get away from my "real" life so to say. I've had to deal with quite a bit the last few months since my Mom's death. To be excited to open up a thread to only find bickering going on gets old.

I'm not going to say any more as Lori did an excellent job in expressing the feelings that I have also.
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lori:
I don't have time for this, really.
Read the the Post from the start " carefully " and tell me if I said something wrong.
From my first Thread I put in the difference between the two yeasts ( someone elses info )
I thought it was good information for her to know.

From then on it went Downhill, not because of me.

I appreciate everyone expressing their opinion , BUT!!!
- - - - - - -

You are all right !!! I'm wrong.
Lou
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
AND, I rest my case...

You know, Lou, you should learn to be a little less predictable.
lindac
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Yes, Lou....we are right and you are wrong.
Not wrong in the information you gave but in posting further that ann, annie and I shouldn't have posted that "go ahead and use what yeast you have, it will be fine".
Why do you feel threatened by information posted by others? No one said you were wrong about the yeast....no one said your information was not good, but when some posted that a beginner didn't need to know the technicalities, you began to pout and make sarcastic posts.
Remember....we all cook, some of us for more years than others, some have studied Classic French cuisine, some cake baking some just family foods and others from the army....but we all have something to add and none of us needs to feel that the rest have to constantly praise and tell what a good idea and and a wonderful recipe was posted.
Lou....why do you feel picked on?
Linda C
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
LindaC:
Would you please reread the Post from the beginning and tell me where ,
I began to Pout and make Sarcastic remarks.

I think I spoke nice and just wanted her to get the right info, just like you have told me a lot of times.

And I don't constantly need praise for what I Post.

I have heard your credentials and how long you have been around, many times.
Many a time, I have talked nice to you, only to have you come after me again.

The latest was the Ant Problem. I put in some advice on ridding of them
and it was completly ignored.
Didn't mind that but then you came after me on the very next Post.
You are like a Buzzard waiting to jump on some one.

Then make up a bunch of Meadow Muffins,or Carp, as you say

I come on this forum to Post things and have a little fun,
but it doesn't seem to be working.

Just the same as,
Dixie Dog: who, I guess thinks, I am a Bad Boy.
But I don't think it is all my fault.

Dixie, I know how you feel for your loss, 5 times over.
Sorry
- - - -
I will never be made to feel Belittled or like a Dummy.
Then I have to answer back.
Maybe you don't know all the details, so it no use trying to explain.

I will never go through this again.

Dixie: Maybe I can make it up to you somehow.
- - - - - - - - -

I hope everyone is satisfied with themselves.

LOU
User
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou, I did go back and re-read the entire thread. And although Whistle asked, what is instant yeast and whether it is the same as rapid, it was obvious that she wanted to know if she could use what she had on hand. And that is how I answered her. What annoys me is that you are trying to tell me what I can or can't post. You don't have to agree or like what I said but don't tell me I didn't answer the question right. You should concern yourself with answering the question your way and I'll do the same. Even if I go off topic what do you care?

What I have always enjoyed and encourage on this forum is the sharing of others experiences and nothing I like more than posting a recipe and having others post their versions of the same or something a little different. Some of my favourite threads are those that go way off topic.

No one was belittling your or putting you down, just presenting another opinion. No reason for you to threaten to leave every time that happens.

Ann
foodonastump
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I know I shouldn't jump in the middle of this. I know it. But Lou, since you suggested re-reading this thread, I did. And I can't help but point out that BEFORE you said, "Ann & Annie: You are both right BUT ! it is only right also, to answer the question that was asked. Not just shrug it off and say they both work the same."

...Ann said....

"You lose out a little on flavour when you have a fast rise, but not enough to worry about with hamburger buns."

...and Annie said...

"I use them pretty much interchangeably with acceptable results. I can tell the difference in rise times or long risen flavor, but most other people can't, probably because I'm looking for a difference and they aren't."

...and even YOU said...

"I was going to tell you to go ahead and use it..."

Especially since we're talking about a bun that's going to soak up the burger grease, ketchup, maybe mayo, maybe pickle juice, etc., I really don't see a need for this pissing match. You and Grainlady provided some valuable insight. Others suggested not worrying about it for this particular application. Everyone's right.
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Ann: And what annoys me is you are changing everything around again.
There was nothing obvious in her initial question.

She wanted to know if there was a difference in Yeasts.

In the next thread, I put in the differences.

If I had as much experience as you, I would have said, to a beginner.

Especially, after you read my first Thread,

" There are some differences in Yeasts. You can use it for your Buns but it doesn't hold true for everything".
" There are adjustments you can make ",that will become second nature to you, with experience "

What you said, sounded to me like," Don't pay attention to what Lou Posted.
You don't have to be concerned with technical things."

What I posted was only a minor adjustment for different Yeasts.

I am not saying what you can, or can not Post but with your notority members take note .
Right or wrong. I know you are never wrong. That's besides the point.

The point is I don't think I've said anything in my first Threads to cause all this.

I'm glad a few members understand what I said.

I wish you would please let it rest.

Lori:
You really surprised me with your comments.
If you really read all the Posts thru the years,
I don't see how you can say these things.
Everybody to their own way of thinking , I guess.
Lou
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou, Lou, Lou. You can't admit when you're wrong. Ann, Annie, Linda, and I all understood the intent of Whistler's original question. She verified that towards the end of the post, regardless of how she worded it. Call it women's intuition, or whatever. All the other information that you and Grainlady gave her was fine. But the bottom line is she wanted to know if she could use what she had on hand. And the answer was YES, she could.

Several people on this thread have noted to you that you were overly defensive. Any chance they're right? Or are you so arrogant to think that things are only the way you perceive them in your own head? That would surprise me, Lou - I think you are a very giving person. But you do tend to get your feathers ruffled when someone prefers a recipe or technique different from yours. Your opinion is just that... an opinion. It differs from fact. Nobody said "Ignore Lou." That's your own interpretation. Nobody said "Lou doesn't know what he's talking about." That's your own insecurity.

The forum is an interchange of ideas and opinions. If you get mad every time someone has an opinion other than yours, you're going to spend a lot of time being irritated, and in the process, irritating others.

Your opinions are valued. But so are everyone else's. Instead of having the last word all the time, why not stop and ponder on some of the last few comments made. More than one person said you sounded overly defensive. Is there any chance you could be? More than one person said you tend to get your feathers ruffled easily and get huffy, threatening to the leave the forum. I've seen that from you on a few threads. Any chance you can see a pattern of that in yourself? Can you be humble enough to see that we all have personality flaws that need to be adjusted sometimes??

If not, then there is no real exchange with you. It's your way, or the highway. That's not pleasant. From anybody.
JoanM
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou, you remind me a lot of my brother. He is very sensitive. I think maybe sensitive people have some troubles communicating via the written word on the internet. I went back and reread the thread as you suggested. I have an open mind here since I am a novice and don't often give advice. If you were my brother, here is what I would point out to you.

Ann wrote:

"Go ahead and use the yeast you have on hand. I wouldn't even worry about adjusting it. About the only difference is that the rapid yeast will rise faster. You lose out a little on flavour when you have a fast rise, but not enough to worry about with hamburger buns."

You wrote:

"What you said, sounded to me like," Don't pay attention to what Lou Posted.
You don't have to be concerned with technical things."

I think you are just an overly sensitive type and you are reading into things stuff that just isn't there. No one has every said "dont pay attention to Lou" That is in your head.

So tell the truth Lou. Are you just Mr. Sensitive like my brother? If you are, just try not to take this stuff so seriously and "literally". It really is a fuzzy way to communicate. People sometimes read into the words stuff that just isn't there.

And so you don't take this the wrong way, let me be real clear. I like you Lou! (and I use garlic powder) LOL I just hate to see you get yourself upset when no one meant you any harm.
foodonastump
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
If I may be so bold, I'd like to get back on topic for a second.

While re-reading Grainlady's post, I noted that she discussed "the difference between active dry yeast and fast-rising yeast products."

I realized that this didn't seem to answer the original question (here we go again, LOL!) which was, "What is instant yeast? Pardon my ignorance, but is it the same as rapid rise?"

So I did a search and found the following statement on thefreshloaf.com: "RapidRise yeast is Fleischmann's trademarked name for their instant yeast. It is not a distinct type of yeast."

Next I went to fleischmannsyeast.com to verify, and lo and behold! "Fleischmann's RapidRise Yeast - Same as Instant and Bread Machine Yeast."

So there you have it. Whistle, the correct answer to your question seems to be, "Yes, it's the same freakin' thing!!!"
lindac
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
A quote from Lou...
"The latest was the Ant Problem. I put in some advice on ridding of them
and it was completly ignored.
Didn't mind that but then you came after me on the very next Post.
You are like a Buzzard waiting to jump on some one."

And I have linked the thread about my ant problem. Yes, your advice was 'completly' ignored. Do you think that every time you post that the next post should comment on what you said?
And please point out again where I "came after you"...

Lou, we wouldn't go to all this trouble if we didn't want you to be part of this forum. No one is waiting to jump on you, no one is calling you wrong when they post additional information and let me assure you that no one feels the need to speak positively to anyone every time someone posts a recipe or gives an idea about something.
Linda C

Here is a link that might be useful: Ant problem thread
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Foodonastump : Touche!
Thanks for doing some research of your own.
I didn't know this at the get go and I don't think anyone else did.
I called Fleischman's Consumer Service myself and you got the same info I did.
Sorry I'm late, just got out of bed and ate breakfast.

Seems like the Info I put in ; on the first Thread, from that guy was wrong.
But no one knew this at the time.
PS:
I always wanted to ask you "How did you get that Handle" ?

Lori:
I don't have any feminine qualities or Woman's Intuition.

Don't even like doing all the OH's and Ah's on WFD Post.
So, you see I took the Question as asked.

Even though she verified it after.

I am not overly defensive or arrogant. I am a very nice person.
I know, because I asked myself that Question.

Had many , many , emails telling me something like that.
Can't say who they are. Wouldn't be right.
They just lurk now or have left the CF.

I don't get my Feathers Ruffled when someone prefers
another Recipe,
unless it is put in Subtle belittling manner.

I've always put in recipes and said " there are other ways to do this " or,
" everyone has their own way to do this but I like to cook and Bake using easier methods,
Long as the results are the same."
I have also put in many fun Posts and useful Posts, eg.
" Kitchen Tips "

Remember ???

I haven't threatened to leave the Forum, I stayed away for a long while after the Celery Post.

I think that all came about because, I sort of stick up for the Underdog. That's my Nature.
Or maybe it was a Depressional problem. lol

Can you name any instances and bring them to my attention ?
So I can correct them?

I've read these Threads over about 5 times, to see what you are talking about.

I think I answered the first 5 Threads respectfully, truthfully and to the point.
Do you think maybe it may be someone else, who might be stubborn and not admit to what is right ?

I know all about winging it to make Dough.
You are right it isn't complicated.
I've said many times , most of the recipes for Dough,
are Basically the same,except for minor changes.
That's it I quit.

What are you doing tonight ???

Ann:
Many members look up to you as sort of a Role Model and use you input.
I don't know why ,yet ???

I love you BUT !!!I think you have to say things in a way,

so as the Members don't get wrong impressions.
Especially newcomers, who don't know.
Read your second Thread , the last sentence.

I'm probably wrong again !

Joan:
Your right ,I am sensitive but I can comunicate Via the written word.
Can you read what I just told Lori. I don't feel like typing it again.
You and everyone are putting words in my mouth. I just spit them out. LOL
Could you please go back and read my second Thread.
I didn't say anthing like mentioned.

Don't say you use Powdered Garlic, you might be associated
with me. That's Bad.

Hey ! I just remembered that song, Thanks.
Bad Boy, Bad Boy, Watcha gonna do, Watcha gonna do, when they come for you, Bad Boy !

You Women are all alike !!!
When my wife did something wrong, she would sit at the table,
rest her chin on her hand and blink her eyes.
I'd call her Drip Face and she would call me a S#!T Head.
LOU
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
LindaC:
Does this mean you love me ???
Lou

Is " Believe it or Not " still around ?
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou, I think I would have gotten along with your wife splendidly!!!
bubbeskitchen
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I am waving, Lou!

Waves ≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈

Bubbe
annie1992
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou, you mentioned that many members look up to Ann T as a role model and that you didn't know why yet.

It's not just "seniority" although Ann certainly has that, she's been here probably as long as you and I have together. She registered in 2001, I registered in 2002, and your page says you registered in 2007. I was here before I registered and so was Ann T, you probably were too.

The real reason people look up to Ann is that she isn't just a "one hit wonder" cook. I get stuck in a rut and tend to cook the same stuff, plus I'm picky and so avoid some dishes and cuisines. Some people only bake white bread or mostly cook things that are quick and only take a few ingredients or stick with local favorites. Ann cooks Mexican, Greek, Italian, Indian, and then she switches to comfort food and diner fare and nearly anything else you can think of. She does all of them well, and I've never gotten a bad recipe from Ann.

She's as likely to make sourdough baguettes as she is bagels and might make chocolate filled croissants today, buttermilk biscuits tomorrow and cream cheese danish next week. She uses various yeasts and sourdough leaveners, bigas and sponges, long cool rises and quickly risen breads and is happy to share her experiences with them all.

In addition to sharing her time and her recipes and her expertise, she's gone out of her way to orchestrate swaps and she's called more than one member to help them with a problem or a technique when the written word just isn't enough.

She's endlessly patient and never minds posting and reposting a recipe or an explanation, which is how I use her as a role model. If she can be that patient, so can I, and since the search engine is just awful, I keep posting recipes or comments or whatever instead of saying "We've already discussed that, go look for it".

So that's why so many members look up to Ann T. She's patient and mostly ignores contention, it takes a lot to get her dander up. She's a great cook, creative and willing to try new things, then tell everyone how it went, even if it was a dismal failure.

So, that's why people look up to Ann T and listen to her advice and point of view. It's because she thinks before she posts, considers how her posts will sound and doesn't over-react. She's calm and considerate and helpful plus she's a great all-round cook.

Annie
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Annie:
What's wrong with you ????? I know all that.

I was only Joking when I said " I don't know why ".
Lou
annie1992
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou, you GOTTA start putting a smiley face or something when you'd joking, sometimes I actually take you seriously!

Annie
JoanM
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Wow! I thought you were serious too Lou. I was shocked that you wrote that considering that Ann is one of the nicest people on this forum. Just goes to show. The written word can be really really misunderstood. A good thing to remember.

The good news is that I think you gave us all permission to call you a S#!T Head when things get all confused :-> Yup, just like my brother!
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Joanm!!!
lindac
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Lou if you really were joking, it would be nice to apologize, because it seemed to many that you were serious.
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
You're right! I should Apologise
I thought about it when I said that, in the thread.
Should have put " LOL " after, then I thought Nah !!!
no one would think that, they have women's intuition.

Ann : I apologise !!! I kidded you before remember?
" if you keep practicing Baking Bread,
you will get good at it."

Joan:
Don't get over confident with women's intuition.
I didn't give anyone permission. Except my wife!!!

Lori:
I don't think my wife would have gotten along with you.

She didn't like people who wouldn't tell the whole truth.

That's why she loved me . I told the truth and stood up
for what was right.
Especially the Under dog.

I tired , have to lay down for awhile.
LOU
Rusty
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I have read & reread this whole thread, trying to figure out what in the world is wrong with everyone.
A person asked a very simple, direct question, others gave pretty simple and not so direct answers. Several gave a lot more information than what was asked for. And that's okay! But then all heck breaks loose. No one seems to understand what anyone else is saying. Why? Was there a full moon that night? Or maybe some of those that so easily took exception to some very inoffensive comments, had a little too much scotch in their water? Maybe it was vice versa, they didn't have enough scotch in their water. ;-)
But I did learn a lot about dry yeast, and also about the people on this forum.
Which basically enforces my decision to do a lot more lurking than posting.
Rusty
PS....
Lou, I for one really do appreciate your sense of humor, and I hope you keep it up! Even if you do have to spell it out and draw pictures sometimes.
Rusty
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
. . . . another "P. S." to Lou.

I always look forward to reading your posts. Your innovative use of ingredients is creative, interesting and amazing. Plus your willingness to try new things, new ways, and experiment with old ways is very refreshing, to say the least.
Rusty
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Rusty:
I appreciate what you are saying but don't let up on your input because of this thread or me.

Maybe I'm the one who should be lurking. I have many bad
traits, don't cha know !!!
I want the last word , get my Feathers Ruffled for no reason.
No one say's " Ignore Lou " or " Lou dosen't know what he is talking about ".
Right !!! No one says that directly, it is all said in a very Subtle way,
that no one would even notice, But I take notice !!!

Then things get turned around "with words" and I'm made to look like I'm a screwball.

Do you know that I can't admit when I'm wrong ?

Well neither can a lot of others. Just keep sticking the daggers in me, instead.

Rusty Thanks!
But I'm getting very tired of all this Bull.

I've put in thousands of hours into the CF, putting in info and typing up Recipes, for what ???
Have a nice Holiday
LOU
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Right on cue, Lou, you had to have the last word. Well not yet, buddy. You're calling me a liar now?? Not only do I tell the truth, but I do my best to do it in a non-aggressive manner.

You have no reason to say I don't tell the truth. I've been nothing but truthful. And on behalf of women, let me say that you're right - you have no feminine qualities whatsoever. But I'd be happy if you manifested a couple of friendly ones without doing it in a backhanded manner.

Jeez-Louise, Lou. Just when the thread was coming to a friendly end, you had to stir the pot again. Do you not have enough fiber in your diet or what?????????
foodonastump
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
"I thought about it when I said that, in the thread.
Should have put ' LOL ' after, then I thought Nah !!!
no one would think that, they have women's intuition."

I just have to say, that literally made me crack up.
whistle_gw
Original Author
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Have Mercy!!!! Never in a million years, would I have expected my question to generate this much activity. Again I must say how grateful I am for all the information I've gotten, and not just about my yeast question. I appreciate that someone went to the Fleishman web site for information.

Now, you all play nicely or I'm going to put you All in time out and you won't be allowed to bake bread for a week!! LOL :):) (I taught in public school for 30 years!)

Whistle
bubbeskitchen
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
My first instinct was not to bother posting, but I spent too many years here not to say my piece.

This is not the forum I once loved! I pop back once in a while to see what's going on and I have found it a shame to see all the club-like behavior replete with kowtowing. I don't know why anyone lurking would be attracted to join anymore. There is very little modesty. If you aren't a food stylist, you dare not post a photo.

Granted there is much in the way of kitchen expertise to learn from all of you; but your generousity of spirit is missing. You give, but you are pedegogical in the doing, or competitive. No decenting voice is allowed to be heard. There are few new ideas or arguments allowed. Just the ubiquitous, know-it-all approach with narrow-minded views and bullying. Maybe it is time to rethink leadership (if there indeed needs to be any), and to employ some "critical thinking."

Critical thinking employs not only logic but broad intellectual criteria such as clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, significance and fairness. Let me underscore fairness

I hope you all figure it out.
I'll be checking back in to see how you're all making out.

Ren (AKA Bubbe)
Rusty
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Very well said, Bubbe

Rusty
lorijean44
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Oh Renee, I couldn't agree more. I'm tired of being bullied because my view is stated in a different way than another poster's.

There is a very small minority who think their recipes or techniques are the be-all/ end-all, "ubiquitous, know-it-all approach with narrow-minded views" of the culinary world. That is when unpleasantness rears its ugly head. When that happens, it is unfair to the whole forum.

I for one would have left this thread a few posts ago, especially when I realized that one particular member refused to see the passive/ aggressive nature of their posts, then devolving into personal attacks to other posters. It's difficult to not defend one's integrity when it's called into question. Imagine how you would feel if someone referred to you as condescending, superior, a liar, a know-it-all.

I believe that everyone but one person in this thread has agreed to disagree.

I, for one, appreciate the beautiful photos many of our talented contributors generously post. It certainly takes additional time on their behalf to photograph the food, choose the appropriate photo for their post, then to share it with everyone. I learn how to plate food to make it look more appealing. I don't find it competitive, I find it encouraging. I think it has given a lot of us in this digital age the impetus to become more artistic, not only in our food preparation, but also in the art of presentation. How is that ever a bad thing?

I think the main spirit of this forum is quite pleasant - these kinds of threads are very few and far between.

I think that there will be a few of us that will be checking back to make sure no one else is being treated unfairly.

Lori
hawk307
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Bubbe:
I second that motion.
Maybe you can tell me, How I can change, so I don't upset everyone.
I don't think I'll Post to this anymore, because I can't seem to get my points across.

Maybe I'll just come back later and try for one last time.
I always have the last word, doncha know.

Any way, on the brighter side,
I found Kermit and his little brothers.

They would like to sing you a Little Ditty.

Ready Kermit !!!!! OK , Lou ! here we go.
Ana one, Ana two

You are my sunshineeeee, my only sunshineeeeeeee
You make me haaapyyyyyyyyyyy When skies are grey

You'll never know Deaarrrrrrrrrrr how much I love youuuuu !

Please don't take my Sunshineeeee AAAawayyyyyy !!!!!!!!!!!

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