LPink and others-Good sources of protein-not red meat

14 years ago

My son is incredibly small. Just this week, they were suggesting HGH for him. He doens't want to do it, neither do his father nor I want him to do it. Ed (his father) thinks, and I agree, it's probably a lack of protein. The little fella refuses to eat red meat or pork. Always has. He eats chicken and fish, loads of veggies and fruits, but a burger? Aint gonna happen. My thought is, protein shake to supplement things. But surely, we could bolster protein intake without adding red meat fat. I'd be more interested in a long term solution for him as it's likely to be a lifelong struggle.

Suggestions?

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Comments (22)

grainlady_ks
14 years ago
It's not just protein, but the Biological Value of protein that you may want to give careful consideration.

Biological Value is the measure of a protein's ability to be used by the body. So if you want the biggest bang from your protein, choose those at the higher numbers. I could see a lot of smoothies made with whey protein, egg-based supplements and milk - and you'll get the first three on the list. I have a friend who has been making low-carb protein powder supplements into ice cream type mixtures and using those for frozen pops and ice cream substitutes. You can add whey protein powder to all kinds of foods and baked goods to increase the protein level. If you start looking at low-carb recipes made with protein powders, you will probably find a new group to choose from.

How about good old broth, beef tea, and calves-foot jelly - which is sometimes called "meat jell-o" - and was considered an elixir years ago, and an easily digestible form of protein for the sick and ailing...

Whey- 100-159
Eggs - 100
Milk - 91
Beef - 80
Chicken - 79
Beans - 49

-Grainlady
rob333 (zone 7b)
Original Author
14 years ago
I'm leaning towards the protein shakes (but with soy milk instead of cow's milk, he already has more than enough of that!) adding some good fats to it, like coconut oil, etc., but don't you think it'd be better to add a good habit to his repetoire instead? I don't see him eating calves foot jelly or broth tea. I might be able to get him to eat edamame. Maybe.
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lindac
14 years ago
Has he seen a pediatric endocrinologist? He should and if he is low on growth hormone he should be given it.
And you need to start well before puberty or the growth plates will close.

Eating red meat instead of chicken and fish won't make him grow tall. Growth is determined by hormones not entirely on nutrition. Get it checked out.
grainlady_ks
14 years ago
I'd avoid soy milk and all soy-containing foods, especially for a male. It's not the miracle food we have been fooled into believing it is. As a protein source, it's not as high in absorbable protein as many other foods - soy protein is 74 on the BV chart.

Soy protein is also one of the most highly processed "frankenfoods" in the world. There are also hormonal problems associated with high intake of soy products; and soy has been shown to impede the sexual maturation of boys due to soy estrogens in the diet. Check out the book "The Whole Soy Story" by Kaayla T. Daniel, PhD, CCN.

-Grainlady
centralcacyclist
14 years ago
Genetics determine height as well. If you and his father are both small, he's never going to be a pro basketball player. If one of you is tall and the other on the small side, he will land in the middle most likely.

It sounds like he gets enough protein. However red meat supplies nutrients that other protein sources lack. Iron, B vitamins, and other things the body needs. Maybe he also needs more calories. Is he thin as well as small? You can easy add supplements and/or calories.

My son was small, too. Partly because he was just a late bloomer. Both of my kids matured later than their classmates. He had his big growth spurt at 16-17.

How old is your son and has he seen an endocrinologist?

Eileen
annie1992
14 years ago
I agree with Grainlady on the soy, I wouldn't go overboard on that either, but I'd not go overboard on anything, moderation in all things.

I can't imagine a kid actually eating that "meat jelly" or happily sipping on a cup of beef tea, but will he eat things with meat in them, like beef barley soup?

Don't forget good old peanut butter and beans of all types, as well as eggs.

As for the whey protein drinks, Amanda used them during the years she was a vegetarian. The local body builders used them and she was dating one, so her Dad got the "mix" for her through the store.

there are lots of healthy vegetarians in the world, so it's not really necessary that your guy eat beef or pork to be healthy. As Ashley's doctor used to tell me, "some kids are just petite". So, if the problem is just height, well, he might just be short. If there are other health problems as well, those will need to be addressed. Knowing how much you love your fella, I know you'll do whatever you think is best for him.

Annie
arley_gw
14 years ago
How old is he? I agree with linda: get a pediatric endocrinologist involved to see if it's an HGH problem or not. While HGH has been abused by athletes, it does have its legitimate uses. If the pituitary gland isn't producing adequate HGH you can end up with short stature for the rest of your life. And HGH treatment can be effective. Once the bone plates seal off after puberty, though, I don't think you can do much, and the greatest nutritional plan in the world won't help that much.

Here is a link that might be useful: NIH on growth hormone
ynnej
14 years ago
If he is willing to drink protein shakes, which tend to taste a little "off," why not have him drink green smoothies instead? Spinach is full of protein, and you hardly taste a difference from regular smoothies. I agree that he should stay away from or limit soy. Nuts, beans, leafy greens.
rob333 (zone 7b)
Original Author
14 years ago
Linda/arley,
Yes. He's been seen by endocrin guys. Since he was 5 (that's almost 8 years now). He's borderline on taking HGH. He gets tested every year, xrays, etc. The works. At one of the best places he can get treatment. It might interest you, and anyone else reading, the max HGH can add is 3 inches overall. All of that (shots, costs, joint pain) for 3 inches? And no one knows the long term effects of HGH still. I have done my research. So did Ed without my input. And we ended up in the same place.

Barn,
Everyone in my family and his family are taller than tall. I'm the shortest female and I'm 5'4". His dad is 6'. His grandfathers were/are 6' and 6'4". My grandfather was 6'3". Mommy is 5'9". He is liklely just a late bloomer like your son :)

I'm just sure he's gonna tower over me someday. I have faith! It's coming. I just want to make it the healthiest help-up he can get. Just like our baby plants, what you put in, comes out. One year, he was falling off the charts and we decided to do a vitamin supplement, double food intake and exercise for six months. He shot up. Coincidence? I don't think so. Maybe it was mind over matter. Minds can do amazing things with our bodies. Thanks for the other nutrient ideas-nuts, beans, leafy greens. I think one soy shake with protein stuff added per day and upping other stuff, like an extra peanut butter sandwich a day, will help him.

Here is a link that might be useful: typical journal-5.2cm growth year 1 with falloff after
teresa_nc7
14 years ago
If he will eat chicken and fish, I would try different forms of those and other recipes that you typically think "beef" when you think of those recipes.

Examples:
burritos made with ground turkey, refried beans, finely diced summer squash, onions, garlic

ground turkey burgers and meatballs or small patties that can be used in meatball subs or pita pockets

taco meat made with ground turkey or chicken or fish tacos

fish cakes or salmon patties

turkey meatloaf, etc.

I've started to experiment more with ground turkey to get away from red meat. Recently I made "wet" burritos that were very good, using ground turkey instead of ground beef. When I get a hankerin' for a beef burger, I just go get the best I can find from a restaurant and enjoy it - without adding any more ground beef to my freezer.

Teresa
centralcacyclist
14 years ago
About the genetics issue. I'm 5 feet tall. Maybe 5'-1/2" on a good day. The kids' dad is 6'-3". Alice is 5'-6" and Daniel is 5'-9" ish. All that tallness on his side could not completely undo the shortness on my side. The kids' dad grew 3 inches in college. Boys can keep growing for a longer time than girls. Daniel was smaller than me at age 13.

E
rob333 (zone 7b)
Original Author
14 years ago
I wish this discussion was in person, I think it'd be interesting!

E,
You're making me smile. I work with genetics folks, all day long, every day. I just organized a meeting for the NHGRI (last month) and the discussions were so tantalizing. In other places, I've heard many talks, and they seem to be going towards, gene studies are proving that what we knew, we truly knew--which genes are having effects on health issues. But the other theme I keep hearing is, it's much much more than one gene. There are folks that have X gene or Z gene and never get the particular disease everyone else in their famliy or risk pool has and we still don't know why. That there must be gene X+gene Z, for example, that is triggering it. Not just one factor. It's gonna take a lot more than just a simple DNA run to find the answers. And you're right, everyone being tall will not keep him from being short. Necessarily. But I can hope to help as much as I can. I will only do what we did before, since it worked.

Teresa,
I love those ideas. I will try to add protein in as many things as I can as I do think he's lacking.
centralcacyclist
14 years ago
Don't forget the things that red meat offers that other protein sources do not like iron, B-12, etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link.
annie1992
14 years ago
Rob, you've met me. I used to be 5'2", now I'm 5'1". Ashley is 5' 1 1/2", in spite of her Dad being 6'1". My mother is 4'10"! Tall doesn't make up for short, LOL, Amanda towers over all of us at 5/7"!

As Barnmom pointed out, there are a lot of nutrients in red meat that aren't in other things, so it's not just a matter of replacing steak with turkey. Amanda had big problems with creatinine levels while a vegetarian and no problems at all now that she's decided to eat beef again.

If it gives you any hope, my ex was 5'2" the summer he was 15. By Christmas he had grown 10 inches, so maybe your boy will have a growth spurt.

Annie
rob333 (zone 7b)
Original Author
14 years ago
I have a friend who works in my lab who grew so fast, he has stretch marks on his back. Isn't the human body amazing?! No worries, his shake will include the other stuff too. I'm not planning on making replacement meal out of it, it's a supplement. I'll report back in another six months!

(smiles!)
coconut_nj
14 years ago
Hey Robin, the LF is lucky he has you to check out foods for him. Personally I'd stick beans in wherever you can and brown rice. If kids like beans, they're pretty easy to put into a lot of dishes. Some beans in a turkey or chicken burger, for instance. You'll figure out what you can do to his favorite foods to bulk them up nutrition-wise. I make turkey or chicken chili with so many beans it's amazing. LOL. I use different types in the same dish so others [Christy] don't freak at all the kidney beans. Light and dark kidneys, garbanzo, cannellini, pinto, etc. Since I make my chili brothy I'd probably throw in a small amount of barley too, for him.
compumom
14 years ago
Good luck, it sounds like you're coming at this with a vast pool of knowledge!
Teresa, we eat quite a bit of ground turkey. I can't do the all white meat, it's too dry, but the organic, dark is a frequent base to a meal. In fact, tonight's dinner was a ground turkey scramble with parm cheese, rice, fresh spinach and some seasoning. (If it wasn't my body, I would have added mushrooms, onions and some garlic).
sally2_gw
14 years ago
I'll add my 2 cents worth to concur that anything can happen with boys. My oldest son was a skinny tiny kid up until 8th grade. Then he grew a foot, and has ended up the tallest in the entire family, at just barely under 6' tall. I'm 5'2", my dh is 5'9", but my father was 5'11" and his mother was tall. I have no idea how tall his father was, but I suspect my son gets his height from my father's side of the family. We thought he was never going to grow. HGH never occurred to us.

Why not focus on being positive about his height, rather than treating it like there's something wrong with him for being short? Look at Robert Redford, James and Dean Caan, (Dean Caan currently on the new Hawaii 5-O) Tom Cruise, I don't know who's popular these days, but I bet many of them are short.

If he's willing to eat a variety of foods, but just doesn't like beef, he's probably better off than people that eat a lot of beef. As for suggestions of what to eat, I think others have had good suggestions, and I don't have anything new to add to the list.

Sally
cookie8
14 years ago
Did your doctor also do tests (stool and blood) to make sure he is absorbing protein? Problem is, it's so easy to give a medication without knowing what your body is even doing or not doing? Did they check for Celiac, where failure to thrive is common? I would also advise against soy as a replacement as it is so over processed and modified it's not even close to it's original form (plus the hormone thing like Grainlady mentioned).
For foods how about natural yogourt with frozen strawberries and topped with a granola (great for lunch as the strawberry defrosts for school lunches/snacks), almond butter with banana on rice cakes, almonds, oatmeal with 1/4 tsp brown sugar, quinoa with chopped raisins and walnuts, lots of free range eggs (scrambled, boiled, mcmuffin (allgrain english muffin with butter), canned tuna (occasional), sardines, salmon. Try adding some chia to your smoothies. Raw pumpkin seeds are a pretty good snack. I would offer more veggies too as they contain protein and I bet most people don't get enough veggies as we carb load. Ugh, diet changes have to be the worst (but best thing ever) to have undertake. Good luck.
cookie8
14 years ago
Oh yeah, I also went to school with a boy (a pretty good friend of mine) who was always smaller than me and I was never a tall girl up until grade 9. He went to another school and I ran into him about five years later and he was at least six feet tall.
A great soup I made was 1 cup of chopped stewing beef, beef broth (4 cups), 1/2 cup quinoa, chopped celery, carrots, onion and kale. Brown the beef in some oil, add veggies (except kale), saute for a bit, add broth and quinoa, cook for 15-20 mins and add some chopped kale. It was very good. Season how you like.
lpinkmountain
14 years ago
Red meat is only one source of protein, so a person will not be protein defficient just because they don't eat that. One could eat all kinds of protein food sources and if they have trouble absorbing it, then it will not make a difference. I don't know all the ins and outs of protein absorption the way I do for some other things like calcium and iron. Iron is something that is in red meat, but it's also in lentils, kidney beans, (most other beans too) quinoa, nuts, dark leafy greens, raisins and prunes, etc. If a kid is a finicky eater, then the real battle is to make sure he gets a variety of foods, that's very important. My mom used to ply us with dried fruits, nuts, and cut up veggies to snack on.

There's nothing wrong with a little organic soy. But I wouldn't go overboard on it. If folks are subbing soy products for milk and meat and not eating a varied diet, then I could see it becoming a problem. Soy supplements and processed soy products are not the same thing as whole soy.

Rather than try to get your son to eat a particular supplement, can you try to get him to eat more kinds of healthy foods like others have mentioned? Set out a bowl of dried fruits and nuts for him to snack on, make a broccoli forest for him to devour with a healthy cheese dip or something. Mixed grain healthy chips and bean dip. Make sure he gets lots of beans and grains, those are very healthy overall. Smoothies made with real fruit, yogurt, some nut butters and wheat germ taste good and have all the good stuff the commercial products do. Also, I can't emphasize enough the importance of greens. Most kids don't eat enough of them--sneak them into turkey or chicken burgers, we love them that way, or in pasta or serve crackers and spinach dip. Try to find a way to get him to eat salads. My brother is extremely picky but he's always liked salads.
ToddFedoruk
14 years ago
Protein drinks, or even well-known smoothies, certainly are a hassle-free mix of nut products, some fruits and also milk. Musclemen specifically like shakes which is a tremendous help in the strength training approach, and it likewise increases the function of our own digestive system. Protein drinks could also enhance our metabolism and allow us to lose excess fat incredibly easier.

You can also find some other food products, that can help you start out every day in a best way, for instance, grape fruit or perhaps orange juice. They are really filled with nutritional vitamins, minerals and additionally health proteins too. Then again, you are able to take in milk each morning which we highly recommend in case you donÃ¯Â¿Â½t have lactose intolerance.

There's one important thing you ought to steer clear of, and that is certainly to start out the morning with a coffee. It is usually best to have a full cup of pure juice. It's also not advised to pass up your main morning meal simply because you could really feel fatigued and sleepy. To avert this, generally try and have a good morning meal.

Here is a link that might be useful: Find out which proteins are healthy ones

LPink and others-Good sources of protein-not red meat

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LPink and others-Good sources of protein-not red meat

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