My local Lowes appliance manager said she tells people to stay away from the non agitator top loaders. They have had complaints of tangling and not getting the clothes clean. They get the most returns with Maytag washer and dryers.

If you are looking for a good top loader that she said people tell her they are happy with, is the Whirlpool model WTW5300VW and matching dryer. I had ordered them when my Duet failed again, but we're going to repair it for now since we were able to purchase a new (redesigned) motor for $150. My Duets are only 5 years old and not had abusive amount of use.

I like the front loaders for being able to wash comforters, and being able to use a sanitize cycle when someone has been ill. It washes hand washables more gently than actually hand washing does.

I like what I am hearing about Samsung and LG. Tammy, the appliance manager, purchased the Samsung, so that tells me a great deal. The Sears appliance manager, who also owns a Whirlpool Duet, said he would consider the Samsung or LG. When we finish our house construction, I'm highly considering the Samsung set, but the LG has good reviews as well, and did well in the Good Housekeeing tests. I would not purchase another Whirlpool Duet front load washer again.

I have had no problems using powdered detergents with cold water washes in my front loader. I also use the Seventh Generation laundry detergents. They have HE directions on their products.

I hang my laundry out whenever weather permits, and I have had no problems with excessive wrinkling, even with the high spin speeds of the front loader. There are different spin speeds depending on what cycle you choose...anywhere from no spinning, low, med., high, and extra high.

I've seen good reviews on this forum with the Sears HE detergent and am trying the free and clear. It works well, but I still like the Seventh Generation brand better. Just be sure to follow the HE directions.

Machines wash in cold water but they're not designed to wash in ice water! Detergents aren't designed to dissolve properly in ice water. Do you bathe in ice water too? How clean will you get if you do?

The problem is people don't understand that "cold", "warm" and "hot" are not defined terms. Cold water for laundry should be around 70-80°, not 40° as my tap water can be during the winter months.

The Cabrio/Oasis/Bravos machines get mixed reviews just like virtually every other machine. There's people here who worship them and people who don't like them. Much has to do with getting used to using a different style of machine IMO.

The Speed Queen still has a great reputation for a solid conventional top loading (non-HE) machine. You might want to look at them.

You say you don't want a FL due to back issues. Presumably you are already using a front loading DRYER. Does that give you unacceptable back issues? FL washers are the same as FL dryers.

I use front loading machines. I hang everything out to dry, without any significant wrinkling. My laundry is almost all cotton (except for the woolens I wash in the machine.)

I wonder why you don't hang your sheets out as they are probably the best examples of what line-drying can do vs. machine drying. They smell wonderful when line-dried, and get almost completely wrinle-free, as well. Machine drying sheets is so much less satisfactory. I live in a very cold climate (northern NY) and I hang my sheets out year-round.

Using modern energy-efficient and water-saving FLS, with warmer temps, even with very hot temps when needed, is actually energy saving because so little water is used compared to TLs. My machines only use about as much water as a large soup pot for the wash phase (all rinses are tap cold), so I have no qualms about heating that much to a higher temp since that means I can use less detergent and virtually no added chemicals to get really clean laundry. Cold wash temps require more product, of whatever you use. Since my laundry is all cotton, I frequently wash at 140-160F, and occasionally as high as 200F. I think powders are better in FLS than liquids, but not everybody finds the same thing. I have used Ecover and Second Generation successfuly, but I prefer other brands. I use only only about 1 to 1 1/2 TABLESPOONS of regular Cheer powder per load.

Which product and how much to use will depend a great deal on your local water chemistry, but there is usually not too much difficulty working it out if one is willing to try other products than what you may have been using - and keep an open mind. I think many (but certainly not all) of the FL-failure situations arise when someone is really just resisting making any changes to their established routine.

You can make your own pedestals in some cases, buy may not need them. They can be added later, if necessary.

Virtually all my clothes are line-dried; I don't iron much: pillowcases, my DH's dress shirts (all-cotton broadcloth and not treated with no-iron chemicals) and my own linen shirts and trousers. I occasionally iron my husband's khaki trousers, mostly when they are newer and still have a residue of the no-iron finish on them. I never iron knit tops like T-necks, polo shirts, or flannel shirts or jeans, etc. If I wore them, I think I would probably iron cotton and linen skirts and dresses and probably silk blouses, too. Of the last things (and pillowcases and men's dress shirts) I can't imagine being able to skip ironing them after washing in any kind of machine, unless they were really coated in no-iron chemicals, which we try to avoid as much as possible.

If I was looking at machines, I would look at all that were in my price range, no matter what style. You might find the newer ones do a better job than what you have always used. I've been using FLs for more than 20 years, and would never want to go back to TLs, because I find FLs do a better job of washing, all while using less water, detergent and energy.

The one strong reccomendation I would make when choosing a FL is to get one with an internal heater that operates in most normal cycles and doesn't depend on the temp of the incoming water as much. (My machines are actually only connected to cold water lines and do all their own heating.) Since so little water is used in the machines the wash water tends to cool off quite a bit during the main wash phase and that leads to less-successful cleaning. Don't rely on what an appliance salesman may tell you about the use of any internal heater. Come back here and verify that the machine actually does use the heater (when necessary) to achieve and maintain the wash water temp you select. Too many salesmen are either ignorant, or too glib, about this feature. IMO, it is crucial to sucess with a FL, particularly in cold climates.

The best top-loading washers that I am aware of that use an agitator are Speed Queens. Hopefully they are still being made. I bought one a couple of years ago. They are wonderful. Good luck.

liriodendron, you can throw clothes into an FL dryer, because the drum is big, and isn't supposed to be filled more than halfway. In contrast, clothes have to be placed into an FL washer, requiring some bending if the washer isn't raised.

So, with TL washer plus FL dryer (no pedestal), we have:

1) Load washer - No bend
2) Unload washer - No bend
3) Load dryer - No bend
4) Unload dryer - Bend

With FL washer plus FL dryer, both not on pedestals, we have:

1) Load washer - Bend
2) Unload washer - Bend
3) Load dryer - No bend
4) Unload dryer - Bend

So FL + FL combination requires four times as much bending as TL + FL combination. I imagine that's not a trivial difference to someone with back trouble.

Re line-drying, I guess either you have no allergies in the family, or there's no pollen in northern New York. Here in Maryland, line-drying would be a health disaster for anyone with allergies.

suburbanmd: why should I "place" clothes instead of tossing them into a FL washer?

Top loader washer:
Unload washer: people do bend to take out clothes even if not as much as FL washer.

No bending to load dryer? only if in a laundrymat or laundry room that has a high mounted dryer. A former apt complex had double stacked commercial gas dryers & the choice of the residents is to use the upper dryer as "no bend".

Unload dryer: no bend?? you are dreaming especially when the dryer has the door at the same level as the FL washer door; never saw a top loading door for dryers.

FL washer:

load washer: squat/crouch down & load the stuff from a laundry basket.

Unload washer: squat/crouch down unload onto a laundry basket.

load dryer: squat/crouch & load from hamper unless stacked; then one can toss from laundry basket to into the dryer like the young pretending doing it with a basketball.

unload dryer: no bend if stacked dryer; squat/crouch down & unload into the laundry basket.

I find bending to get stuff from a TL more difficult when the sheets are wrapped around the agitator while getting bruised or bleeding knuckles. Also must bend to get stuff from the bottom of the TL washer as probably most people must do.

Oh, no bruised knuckles with a FL washer; one can use a foot stool to sit on to load/unload laundry.

I've never found that I didn't have to bend when unloading a TL washer.

Perhaps being a single male, I don't do laundry correctly as never had a washing machine when young; no "survival training" as regards doing laundry or cooking or even using the dishwasher.

SuburbanMd,

We have the usual (or more) amount of pollen as this is a farm, surrounded by hay and corn fields or woods. I used to dry outside when we owned a farm in northern VA, too. I guess we're lucky not to have allergies, or maybe we don't pay them too much mind, if we do. If you do have allergies, does that mean you can't live or sleep with wide-open windows? That would be my personal version of a living Hell!

I have a full-sized TL next to my FLs and I find unloading and fishing stuff out of it to be annoying since I have to bend down over the front edge to retrieve the last few things from the bottom of the drum. That seems harder on the back than a FL.

I never bother to "lay things into" a FL. I just squat down and stuff whatever is in the laundry basket into the drum. Then give it all a shove and slam the door. I fill until the drum is full to the top. To remove stuff at the end of the cycle, I just squat down again and pull stuff out into the basket on the floor in front of the porthole. Then I give the drum a turn to catch anything still plastered up against the sidewall.

Sorry to take so long to get back to this thread. Very happy to get so much input. Thanks!

Sandy, good to know that you've used Seventh Generation and good to hear that Sears has one that seems to work for people. Thanks for sharing all the comments you have heard on different machines.

cynic...Yes, I've heard that from the appliance store that we have dealt with over the years. They also do the service calls and he thought that a good portion of the probs people have are because they are either using cold water or too much detergent or not the right kind of detergent.

Going to spend some time this afternoon looking into Speed Queen. Thanks mattstarr as well.

Liriodendron....hello fellow gardener. [g] I LOVE to hang clothes outside. We bought two retractable lines for outdoors and haven't got them up but hope to soon. What's better than fresh sheets and towels off the line? We also try to buy no chemicals on our clothes and hate the 'no iron' clothes that are more and more the norm. No seasonal allergies here either. I also love sleeping with open windows. My mother used to tell me stories of how their family always had windows open in the winter but kept snuggly under thick comforters. I will make sure to look for that heater and figure out if it functions correctly. Thanks.

Yes, I hadn't thought of the fact that using the front door dryer is already a fact of life, I suspect as suburbanmd points out, it would just be more of what we would like to avoid. Something to think about though.

I have been told by the appliance dealer that with new Top Loaders you are not supposed to shove all the clothes in, but carefully load by dropping clothes in one at a time. Still they come out tangled and wrinkled according to some.

You might try the Method products if you like Seventh Generation. I have recently begun using the new Method detergent in the pump bottle. They have several flavors - I use the Free and Clear. Very concentrated - a small squirt does a small load, a full squirt does a medium to large load.

It has enzymes in it, which I have used intermittently in the past. One remarkable thing happened. I had a light beige polo shirt that had a pizza sauce stain on it. I pretreated the stain with a little Method then washed it in a short, 30 min. load. The stain was partially still there when the shirt came out of the dryer. I hung it on my clothes drying rack to cool off and left it there for a few days. I almost threw the shirt away but when I looked at it again I could not believe the stain was gone! There was a tiny line around the stain but the actual orange stain was gone. Like magic!

Target carries the Method line of detergents. Not sure where else would have them.

Thanks oregpsnow, I'll look for that.

For years I have dried clothing this way and have to iron about 2 items per year. Remove items from the washer individually and shake thoroughly, throw in dryer. Set cycle to Perm Press and allow to tumble for 3-5 minutes. Remove items one by one from dryer and hang on hangers or drying rack.

Restart dryer each time an item is removed, the tumbling action keeps wrinkles from forming. This method ensures virtually wrinkle-free clothing AND is highly "green" due to only drying items for a few minutes.

dianne, I used to do that for years and find it the best way to dry clothes without ironing. My DH does the laundry now and he really doesn't like doing it that way. *sigh*

...then you won't need to spend $300 on pedestals.

I started sitting on a stool to sort clothes and load/unload washer/transfer to dryer when I was pregnant. It really saved my back so I've continued to do it post-pregnancy. I don't know if having to get up from a low stool is a problem for folks, but thought I'd pass the idea along. I'm usually close enough to the washer that I can put a hand on it to help me get up, if that's needed.

hcj ...that is a great idea too!! I'm going to have to try that. Thanks.