I don't know if I qualify to answer this since I haven't been married that long but so far..

We were raised similar and have the same views on morals and most things in general.

We agree on how are finances are handled and we communicate with each other about money.

We both have a similar goofy sense of humor.

We both help out with things around the house and it isn't dumped all on one person.

We are both somewhat headstrong/short fused depending on the subject so when we do occasionally really argue, I'll admit it can sometimes get ugly. (Not with nasty name calling or physical but we both have good vocals for yelling…) As quick as we fight, we’ll get over it, apologize, and talk about it. If our personalities weren’t the way they are and things ended different, I really don’t know that we would’ve stayed together.

Umm.. while we like our action movies we both enjoy cartoons still. I requested the series of The Angry Beavers for Christmas (old cartoon from Nickelodeon) and I know we're both excited about it.

We have fun together and enjoy a lot of the same things.

That's all I can think of for now. I hope we can continue to grow closer and work the kinks out along the way.

We were raised similar and have the same views on morals and most things in general. I think that's a good point Shee.

We agree on how are finances are handled and we communicate with each other about money. Very important!

We both help out with things around the house and it isn't dumped all on one person. Ditto here.

I'm adding to those three of Shee's, which I totally agree with.

-being friends as well as lovers/spouse, whatever. Being each other's friend is important.

-COMMUNICATION one of the top factors to a good marriage IMHO

-TRUST

Have friends together but also have friends of your own and spend a bit of time away from each other.

-Sex, while in some circumstances not always possible (illness, injury, etc.), being affectionate, loving, touching each other to me is critical and keeps a couple close and helps keep the communication open

Encourage each other. Be your spouse's best cheerleader.

I also agree with Shee about arguments, etc. There are going to be times you and your spouse disagree about things, sometimes strongly. Bringing up things from the past and saying hurtful things does NOT help and can be detrimental to the marriage. I'm often amazed when I hear people call their spouse names, literally cuss each other out, etc. Show each other a little respect. RESPECT, another important point.

We too have many common interests and enjoy spending time with each other. I'm sure I will think of other things as this thread grows, but these are a few that are important to us. I feel so blessed with my marriage and the husband I have. Twenty-nine years in February.

tina

When you both complement & compliment each other. It's good to have different strong suits, then each spouse gets to be a star sometimes and nobody feels like a lesser entity.

Knowing how to argue without being hurtful. Having a spouse with a short memory. He honestly doesn't remember fighting a few hours later and I can't be mad when he's no longer angry.

Sex.

The longer I'm married the more I find great about marriage. I think we go through stages in our relationship and with each hurdle we cross, the closer we become.

I think it's great to be with someone that knows me through and through, good and bad, and has the commitment to stay till the end. It's such a comfort to know that no matter what happens, they'll be there till death do us part.

I read a survey about 30 yrs ago regarding couples that had long marriages and what was their secret. Every single couple said that commitment was sometimes all they had. That they could have left many times and never looked back, but they were glad they didn't.

I've read about stages in marriages, one being you get to the point where you know your spouse so well and can't stand a thing about them. I've been there, done that, and I'm sure dh has as well. But commitment held us together.

I'm not saying there aren't reasons to end a marriage, because we all know there are.

We've had our share of hell, but we've stuck it out. That comfort is there.

We were married 20 yrs before we ever spent a night apart. There have been a few since then, but recently we were apart for a month when my dad died. Even though I read in the bedroom and dh watches tv in another room, we're not together as such, but we're "there." When I was gone, dh said he'd never been so lonely. He said he'd walk into the bedroom to tell me something and I wasn't there. That is just an example of the comfort and togetherness that marriage brings. Even though we're not in each other's face all the time, we're still there.

And after you've gone through all the rough spots is when love really shines. It is a smooth, gentle, comforting love that is so much better than the first time.

I used to see old couples sitting on their porch, watching the sun set, not saying a word, just gently rocking, with contented smiles on their faces, and now I know why.

My husband's a Brain, I'm not. I grew up affluent, he didn't. We're total opposites, but have the same views on life.

BUT...if I had to say one thing, which I have to young couples because it took years of experience for me to figure it out, lol, is to:

Let the other person have their "mood." If they're in a bad mood or just being silent, even cussing if you disagree with them, let it be. Give them space and the mood will go away. Mostly, do NOT take anything personal.

I think that's a big problem. We all get in a crappy mood and say things we shouldn't, then we dwell on what the other person said to us.

I finally learned over the years to just blow things off and an hour later all is fine.

I need to clarify something after re-reading what I wrote. My dh doesn't cuss me out, lol, but when I see he's tired and in a grumpy mood, I don't argue.

When I was in my 20s, I'd pick that time to bring something up that I was either angry or hurt about, and that's when he'd cuss at me and I'd take it personally.

Now we just give each other space when we're moody, which isn't all that often, thank goodness!

I used to see old couples sitting on their porch, watching the sun set, not saying a word, just gently rocking, with contented smiles on their faces, and now I know why

That could be us now...but only because dh doesn't talk much to me and is not a great communicator.
Sadly, we do not have a great marriage, though we have 15 years into it.

I think lookingupsmiling said it as well as I could ever hope to. DH and I will have 40 years on Feb 8th. We have had some times that have nearly broken us completely,,,,most recently this past September. But each time we just hold each other and keep on, knowing that the other one is there silently supporting and sharing and loving . I can't think of anyone I would rather be with and I know DH has told me time and again he feels the same. My life is as full as it can be and the only reason I am still here is due to this wonderful man. c

Wow! Excellent examples of great marriages. Mutual admiration comes to mind too.

After 27 years of marriage, we both know which one is better at what and we fall into leading/supporting roles, based on our individual talents. No ego wrestling.

I love it when I call DH at work. He always acts excited to hear from me. We like being with each other and make a point to show it. DH has even watched "What Not to Wear" with me a couple times recently. While he never shopped with me earlier in our marriage, now he offers. I told him he must get some skills if he wants to be my shopping partner. Not everything is 'cute'. LOL!

Mutual interests is a good one. We start our mornings reading the newspapers and talking about the news. We subscribe to two papers - his and mine. LOL! We love exploring new places to eat around here as well as neighboring towns and cities. He will ask me to lunch "in Sacramento" on a Saturday.

Yep, Oakley. It's important to allow grumpy moods to run their course without additional fuel.

I related to everything you all said. Bumble, maybe it's the 15 year itch?

Understanding your spouse's childhood and upbringing.

It's not that, golddust, at all. He's rock solid....but kinda boring...it's my mind that wanders too much!
And he has an enormous work load which keeps him over stressed more often than not.

Great sex.

Remembering falling in love is magical. Some may call it chemistry, but there is no substitute for that zing you feel from just a look. It's not something that can be "worked on". It just was and is. If you have that, plus respect, marriage is sweet.

It's not that, golddust, at all. He's rock solid....but kinda boring...it's my mind that wanders too much!
And he has an enormous work load which keeps him over stressed more often than not.

That pretty much describes my DH. I often call us the most boring couple around. But I also realize that a more exciting spouse might come at a cost. I can always depend on my husband to be there for me or our kids. He is not taking off on golf weekends, or drinking with the boys. We have been able to raise 3 pretty great kids, I believe in large part because of the stability that we have provided for them.

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread but the topic is something I have dwelt on for a long time 'cuase I don't have it.
I also think marriage is to a degree what you make it to be. I'm not capable of the Great Romance as nothing lives up to my vivid fantasy world and I think it's this way with certain personality types: Anticipation is often better than the real thing.
The ordinariness of life is dreary sometimes.

In college, I had a gorgeous professor interested in me. Really! But, one day, we were standing nearly cheek to cheek going over my work and he had horrendous breath. Just the worst. It ruined it for me with him. He was single btw, but I was as innocent as they come and it's just as well! But the realities of life took away the je ne sais quoi. Later, he married another grad student.

My DH and I have 2 teenage girls and will celebrate our 20th anniversary this year. Both our parents are still together- mine married 56 yrs, and his married 44yrs. Somehow I think this makes a HUGE difference.

Also-

*acceptance of eachothers faults- we all have faults so you better be able to live with whatever faults your spouse has

*forgiveness- everyone needs to give and get this!

*no name calling while arguing- you can't "unring" that bell

*agreement on how to raise children- IMO it will never work without this

*lots of kind words, hugs ( and other goodies!!!!!)

Anticipation is often better than the real thing.

Ain't that the truth!!

We don't travel much, but I almost enjoy the planning and anticipation more than the actual trip! I have learned (well still trying to learn) to let go of expectations and enjoy the moment more.

And of course it's always different being on the outside, looking in. We often think that other people have wonderful, exciting lives and relationships, when they would happily trade for something simpler. It's like that Sheryl Crow song
"It's not having what you want
It's wanting what you've got".

Interesting, Bumble. I think to some degree, marriage is what you make it but I also believe one has to be married to the right person.

I was involved in a relationship for over 5 years. Eventually I knew that I was settling. He wanted to marry me and at one time I would have married him. I'm so glad I didn't. He was a brilliant man (we are still friends) but he wasn't The One for me. After standing at the alter once with a man I was forced to marry, I swore I'd never settle again.

With DH, there was never a moment of uncertainty or a feeling of 'settling'.

I can tell you that I really enjoy boring life. We have been together for 27+ years. We have been through highs and lows. In the end, it comes down to trust, I know that he will be there for me in any case and I hope that he knows the same about me.
Bumble, you know I know nothing about your relationship, but from my own, no-one can see into other person, if you want something you need to communicate to your partner. Example, my DH does not care much about parties, but I have always made a big deal about making one for him. When my birthday came around, I was hoping that he will make big deal out of it, but because he actually did not care much about his parties, it never occurred to him that for me the party for me was a big deal. After my disappointed, I told him and now he knows. Like I said, no-one can see what you want out of the relationship, you need to communicate this to your DH.

Thanks punamy. I wish it were that easy!

I wish I could say what makes it great. I used to feel I had a great marriage, but honestly, since my BIL was here, it's brought it under a microscope. I really feel like I'm 'settling' right now...and I don't like that.

I've fought within myself for years to be happy with what I have, but now, I feel like I could have so much more. I also feel like a hypocrite, because I was feeling so superior to my sister and my BIL's wife...women who just chucked their husbands to move on. In both cases, there is now another man...part of the impetus for moving on. But I don't WANT another man, I want a life I don't see my DH giving me any more.

I think that maybe this is another phase of our marriage, we tend to grow at different spurts sometimes. I'm just worried that this time DH isn't going to grow, but revert.

I guess to answer the question, I'd say it's growing through the growth spurts together!

(((Hug))) Pesky!! I think I know what you are saying and it is profound. I've been in your shoes. It seems like you are at a crossroad and it's time to take measure.
We are here if you want to process more - you know that, right?

You are very articulate. Use us!!! We won't tell. LOL!

Pesky, I agree with Gold. Not because we're nosy, but because maybe we can help. Like I said above, my dh and I are complete opposites but we've been happily married (knock on wood!) for 36 years.

There are two questions I'd like to know in order to give you any advice I might have.

What is your age and how long have you been married?

Another question, what kind of "life" are you wanting?

I can say this with a certainty, marriage does go through different stages, but that's when we work the hardest and realize it's just a phase that will pass.

bumblebeez, it is hard but at the same time can be easy as well (both the same time LOL). Communication and knowing what you want and need, are the key. I was thinking about you when I had trouble falling asleep. Like I said in my post, I love the boring life. One reason, I have had too much excitement in my life in the past. Luckily, the excitement was caused by other things than my marriage, so my marriage was the rock that I could lean on at the most difficult times of my life. So in essence, what I am trying to say, is , that if you want more excitement in your life, it does not need to be marriage. Get it some other way and you might come to appreciate and cherish your boring marriage in the process. Just a thought :)
Pesky, I think golddust is onto something. We all come to those crossroads in our life and in our marriages as well. I can count several in my 27 years. You just have to think and feel it through and take the path that is most right for you.

Pesky, I've been in that place you are in now, and I ultimately decided to divorce. For me it wasn't a matter of my wanting more from my husband, it was the realization that we wanted to live life in fundamentally different ways that were mutually exclusive - in other words, neither of us could live the life we wanted as long as we were together.

I too tried to be happy with what I had ("bloom where you are planted") and our divorce came as a surprise to most everyone. Admitting my true feelings to myself was the first step. The second step was a change in my mindset that divorce was not an option.

pesky, this is the psychology major in me (in Master's program now) but, would your DH go see a counselor with you? Any kids? You wouldn't believe the number of cases I have analyzed (or just tried to at this point) that couples are on their second marriage, and wish they had stayed with their first one and if they had seen a counselor, before it got too bad, and to help them make a better descision. That person there with an unbiased opinion makes such a difference, IF both parties are willing to try. Of course, there are SO MANY factors to consider and in no way could anyone here, offer enough advice to help you in the way that would be most beneficial to your situation. BUT, it helps to just have people listen to you, if you are feeling unheard, which a lot of us can relate too.

That being said, only 20% of married couples make it, once they do see a counselor, because by then, least one of them, are at the point they don't care anymore and have no feelings for the other one.

Think hard!

I think what keeps our marriage strong is simple. Love. He loves me and I love him. Deeply and forever.

My January cancer diagnosis really rocked our world. There was a moment when we wondered just how long this life we have together would last. We have dreams of how our life will be when the kids are grown and it is just him and me again. There was a moment when I saw that fear in his eyes, I could tell he was wondering if we really would grow old together. It breaks my heart to know that I might be the one to leave him. He mentioned always feeling like he would be the first to get sick, but he never imagined one of us could become ill this early in our lives. But I have and it is what it is.

Now that my treatment is complete I think we are just moving forward. We have too many plans when we are old and gray.

We often joke about why we are still together. I drive him crazy, frustrate him sometimes with my stubborness. I love how crazy he gets when I frustrate him.

I guess we compliment each other.

I do give a piece of advice to any newlyweds I meet. Do not be consistent. Only make the bed 6 times a week, alternating what day you don't make it. Forget to do the whites laundry every now and again. A marriage filled with too many routines becomes boring. Always keep them guessing just enough.

I don't even know why I opened this thread... to torture myself maybe. And I don't even know why I am posting but Pesky and graywings posts both really spoke to me.

I'm another one who spent a very long time telling myself to be happy with what I've got and my whole world is crumbling around my shoulders as I type this. I've been in therapy for months, he's been in therapy for months, we've been doing joint therapy for months. Like some lifetime movie cliche, it was another man who made me realize it (emotional, not physical, though I am not even sure why I am adding that... does it make it any better to know that I've developed that kind of emotional closeness with someone other than my husband even if I'm not givin' it up??)

I was quite outspoken about divorce myself, especially when there were kids in the picture... but the lady doth protest too much. I know in my heart that I always feared something like this would happen, and I took steps to make sure it never would, and once I realized the bad place I had put myself in by doing that and started to reverse it "for my child" it happened anyway.

I can tell you that feeling like you've settled (and that is in no way a reflection that I feel like I am better than anyone else, just that my husband is not what I ever thought I wanted), lack of attraction (I congratulated myself all these years for being un-shallow) and learning to shrink your expectations to virtually nothing so that you are never disappointed is really not the way to a good marriage, let alone a great one, even if you are always smiling on the outside and never fight and people think things are wonderful. It IS a pretty good way to feel like you are dying inside as the years go by though.

My therapist says that this would have happened with or without other guy... that I was already on a slow decline (and I was... the truth is that if I wasn't already feeling so alone and empty inside, other guy would not have been able to take root the way he did)... that give it another few years and I would have been there anyway, hopelessly depressed and trying to figure it all out rather than having it shoved in my face the way it has been. All of that is kind of a cold consolation for having another divorce mediation session a couple of days before Christmas (one of the nice things about having a passionless marriage is that the split is not particularly drama filled) and facing the reality of the possibility of spending your life alone.

I agree with seeing a counselor sooner rather than later if you are having those feelings, before something blows a hole in your world and makes you HAVE to deal with them. I always thought I was basically strong enough and controlled enough to push them aside and bury them deep and I did for about 15 years but feelings have a way of working their way out when you least expect them to. I think that Pesky has the luxury of being in a position where she had something occur that helped her to see the weaknesses in her marriage without actually setting off that bomb and should not waste the opportunity to go to counseling before things reach a crisis. Just my humble opinion... I don't know what would have happened in my own situation if we had gone to counseling before we had emotionally detached from each other... I think at this point in his life my husband has changed as much as he possibly can and it still would have been no good but at least things would be less complicated.

kgwlisa:
Your post really touched my heart and I could feel the pain you're in through your words. As a trained therapist (MSW), let me say, in a fractured marriage, it is often the first person with an opportunity who strays, whether emotionally or physically. Both parties are responsible for the circumstances which lead up to that straying, not just the one who strays. (Doesn't apply in those marriages with a serial cheater)

The only thing worse than 15 years of an unhappy, miserable marriage is 16 years of an unhappy, miserable marriage.

I'll be thinking of you.

Dee

kgwlisa -

I'm so sorry. It sounds like you are moving forward and hopefully to a new and fulfilling life for yourself. I wish you much happiness in the next chapter of your life. I know it must be hard, but kudos to you for having the courage to make the change.

tina

kgwlisa, thank you for that poignant post. I'm so sorry that you're in this state, but I can definitely feel what you're saying. learning to shrink your expectations to virtually nothing so that you are never disappointed-WOW...that is exactly what I feel!

Backround...I was married and had 3 kids with 1st. We have not spoken (until very recently, which is another post!) and my DH has essentially raised the kids. The kids are 27, 25 and 23...all out of the house. We've been together for 21 years, married 11 of them.

I have a very stable, very secure income and if single, could be living a very comfortable life. Essentially the life I want to live, which is travelling, entertaining, going to social events and being able to buy and enjoy nice things.

The reality is that my man has ADD and has very low 'finer things' threshold. We have a lot of pets and between them and my DH's business, I can't have a nice house. I mean, my house is nice, but anything I have has to be able to be sacrificed to potential destruction. My DH is not a fixer...so when he works on something, it's pretty much half assed or he doesn't follow through. For example, he finally (after months of asking/nagging) installed my new oven. But he didn't replace things and didn't put the stove all the way back in. He's ok with it that way! THAT is a perfect example of what I mean. I'm NOT ok living like that.

DH is funny and we share core values, but there are things he does that I just can't tolerate any more. He doesn't do them all the time, but when he does them, they just make me see red. He teases...and his teasing can be very hurtful. My kids recently told me that they carry the scars of that today. I don't know if he does it as a defense mechanism or if he's just not aware that he's being hurtful. I know that he doesn't like to hurt people, so this is a tough one to deal with. And I carry a lot of guilt that my kid's bio dad abandoned them, and I feel like I gave them a dad who wasn't good enough. He loved them, but they always had to compete with his son (again, another post) who sucked up all DH's time.

I have been in contact with a former fiance...believe me, I have NO desire to recreate what we had, but I truly enjoy his friendship. He's smart and wordly and I can converse with him in a way I can't with DH, but it's not like I have an emotional attachment to him. I guess I just see this part of him that is attractive that I wish DH had.

And, just in this fragile state of my marriage, suddenly I hear from my Ex. I'd never gotten any closure...our divorce was basically mail order, we never saw each other, so we never fought it out. And I never got to understand why he abandoned the kids. So I had all these emotions about him (I DO NOT love him!!) and then I see this message from him and it really sent me into another world. DH is insanely jealous...but that's not really right, more that he's terribly insecure about my ex. But that is a door that is welded shut...never going back there. And I can't get DH to understand that. Anyway, I have the opportunity to finally get the closure I need from my ex, but it's at a time when I start fantasizing about the GOOD things we had (which were nothing compared to the bad) and the rotten way I'm feeling with my DH.

It's all so complicated, but I will say...I think I might be moving out of this funk. I plan to go to counselling, with or without DH. We've been connecting again a bit more since BIL has left, and I'm confident we'll get back to a smoother road, but I am concerned about my deep inner conflict and feeling that I deserve better.

Pesky, your DH's teasing is a form of abuse and control, IMO. Some people think if they say mean things in a "teasing" way, it's ok. But, as you have learned from your children, it's very hurtful and harmful. Sorry to be so blunt, but for someone who doesn't like to hurt anyone, he's done a pretty good job, whether or not it was intentional.

It's great that you're going to go to counseling and I hope you work things out but you really need to consult a divorce attorney as to what could happen if you were to divorce so that there are no surprises.

kgwlisa,

I totally agree with everything Dee said. I raised a daughter in a broken home as a single mom. Sure, there were bumps and potholes along the way BUT she turned out wonderful. She is now 40 and grateful to me for showing her how to chose a good man by example. How not to stay in a marriage just because you said you would, even if it kills your spirit. I was always positive in her presence, strong in my leadership and very present in her life. I stayed in a young abusive marriage for 5 years, thinking I could change him or me. Thinking no one could possibly love our DD as much. Afraid to step out on my own. The reality was, once I stepped off the cliff, I learned to fly.

I had been divorced for 8 years when I met DH. I was comfortable living alone and providing for my DD. (No child support or welfare alert.) I had not wasted one day growing into who I wanted to be. The only regret I had was staying so long inside a doomed marriage.

Pesky. Hon. Taking measure of your life should not include making your DH insanely jealous. LOL!! Stay away from all other men for now!! You are too vulnerable. If you decide to leave your marriage, please do it with class. Don't make a mess you will be cleaning up on the side.

Oh Gold...I have NO intention of making DH jealous! I have wanted for a long, long time to rid myself of my ex once and for all. I felt like I've been carrying that baggage for so long and it was not allowing me to be free emotionally.

I've got no more intentions of contact with him. As for my ex-fiance, we're friends on FB only...no real life contact, and I don't wish for that at all! DH knows I'm friends with him on FB, and he doesn't say anything negative as he knows that door is also closed and welded. It was just my exH...I think on some level he's afraid the kids will want to resume a life with him, and they've told me they have NO desire to go there.

Yes, I am aware of that emotional abuse Marlene. I've called him on it MANY times and told him what he was doing was no different than punching someone. He seems very remorseful once he realizes what he's done...genuinely so. His mom told me that his father used to do the same thing, only he did it with a mean glint in his eye. I think if my DH is aware of it, he wouldn't do it, but I don't know for sure. It's one thing that really bothers me...not knowing for sure. He usually does it when he's feeling cornered or vulnerable.

One of the biggest problems I have is that my husband is a good guy. He is not mean, he is not a jerk... he is a good father and he loves me like crazy. I just chose poorly when I was too young to be making that kind of a decision because I was afraid of being hurt after being in a very bad relationship with a guy who made me feel like crap for over a year and then finally dumped me... I married the first man I knew would never hurt me. I didn't realize that there were many ways of being hurt and being left was just one of them.

I'm not sure I would say I was miserable... yet. I was definitely not happy, but I threw myself into other things and like I said, spent a lot of time convincing myself I was happy with what I had even if what I had didn't make me happy. I think in general that is not a bad philosophy in life, when you are talking about things like the couches you have when you cannot afford new ones or things like that... but, at least in my experience, it is not sustainable for life when choosing a mate, even if it is a useful mechanism to keep from being unhappy about EVERYTHING in your life. IMO it is probably healthiest to strive for a balance between pursuit of better things in life and not living your life perpetually dissatisfied with EVERYTHING.

But at our core I think we are just maybe not so compatible. I have changed myself as much as I can to be more compatible with him and I find myself not liking the person I have become very much. I find myself extremely depressed at the thought that this is all there is. I have an excellent, extremely intelligent and well read therapist who has been my lifeline in all of this, but unfortunately she won't let me move in with her and hold my hand through all of this :-p.

I would also say to be very very very wary of allowing a man outside of your marriage to fill any voids in your marriage. "Just" conversation can easily turn into other attachments. That's how I fell completely head over heels for this other guy. Do not underestimate the power of having your soul finally given the things that it has been craving. I may be 36 but I was stupid and I was naive to think that what happened could never happen to me. I had (and really still have) very little self esteem and did not believe that anyone could feel about me the way he does and I allowed myself to be reckless. Our conversations were in many ways like movie scripts... I could not believe the rush of having a "partner" who could match me in witty banter and expressiveness rather than just absorbing everything I have to offer like a sponge. He has an uncanny way of hearing what I mean rather than what I say and after so many years of hiding my true feelings and having a "game face" on and feeling so alone, you cannot believe the power of finally feeling seen for what I am, understood and loved for it. My husband is highly intellectual and doesn't "get" beauty... he doesn't get the value of it in your life in any capacity and he certainly does not feel that way about me... he just "doesn't see the world that way" and he "has to be true to himself." I also completely underestimated the power of being 36 years old and being told for the first time that you are beautiful... and then having it happen over and over and over again.

So was I miserable? If I was, I did not know it until a different way of being was shoved right there in front of my face. It's maybe not the best way to reevaluate your life because there is a lot of guilt involved. But I'm just saying... do not underestimate the power of "just conversation." That is the core of any emotional affair... having your needs met by someone other than your partner. I'm not sure at what point it becomes that slippery slope, because I had certainly had very close male friends before at other points in my marriage, but I suppose it is at the point where he feels the same way about you that you feel about him and you start talking about feeling like you are soulmates... things have definitely gone too far :-p. My life is a mess and it started with an innocent enough conversation, reminiscing about the past (I dated him half my lifetime ago) and talking about how nice it was to be "friends" again after all of this time. Obviously one size doesn't fit all and I still believe men and women can be friends without trouble, but I was beyond naive in this case. I figured my heart was "welded shut" against him too but... "surprise!"

kgwlisa, I am so glad you posted your story above, especially about a simple and innocent conversation turning into more. I have written about it here before, my sister went through this last year, finding out now, it was someone she dated in her teens, and her marriage is no more. They were friends on facebook. Her DH was even friends with him-double whammy! At least it sounds as if you are trying to make the best descision, and taking account of all the things in your life that are important.

Yes, we deserve to be happy, I totally get that, but, it is rare that there is a "perfect" person for anyone. With a new person in your life, they come with a whole new set of problems, and then you have to deal with those. I have been in a past relationships (way past) and there were no feelings there for me, so I know how someone must feel to be forced by kids, family, etc to stay in that situation. Of course, mine was before kids and I was very fickle and picky and I was the only one that mattered, at that time. Not so sure that was a bad thing then.

I know, in my sister's case, if her DH would have known (he thought things were great) if she was unhappy in any way, he would have done whatever he could to help. Most guys just don't "get it", and then when they are forced to face it, it's too late.

Mine doesn't get it with the "beauty" that much either, so I know what you mean there. I have had guys in the beginning of our marriage tell me the most wonderful things, and I thought my DH doesn't understand what he's got with me-LOL! But, I will say, when he does say something nice about me, it is really the truth, and I believe him, and I know he really believes it too. But, there are so many good things about my DH, and I now, have friends that are out there in the dating scene again, and I am SO glad I have my DH, and his values. I hear their stories, and feel how lucky I am.

I do have to say when I hear these stories, it does make one look at their own marriage and analyze it. Some choose to make it better, some don't.

You have heard now there has been studies done saying divorce is "contagious", haven't you? Which I believe, because, as I said earlier, it causes other couples close to couples divorcing to analyze their own marriage.

And, there are record numbers of affairs from social networking, not saying yours is though, just for the reasons you stated above, about innocent conversations turning into more. I can guarantee you I think my marriage is a good marriage, but, we have our downs and lows like most marriages do. If someone was on facebook or whichever, telling me how beautiful and smart and wonderful I was all the time, it would affect me, I mean, we are human after all.

kgwlisa, I wish I could be there to give you a hug. What a profound set of realizations you've come to. I had a discussion with my DD once about the men we've chosen to spend our lives with, and we talked about some things that were deal breakers. It was very much like what you're talking about your husband not 'getting' beauty.

I've had plenty of relationships...and all had those dealbreakers. My DH didn't. We have our disagreements, and our low points, but the core issues never waiver. The friendships I have with my male friends (ex or not) just can't touch those core values that make me attracted to my DH.

I'm feeling like our relationship is starting to get back on track again. He's becoming more like his usual self, and not this petulant baby. We actually were able to talk about his perceptions about certain things and we turned it into a joke and now have a keyword to use when his negative self talk starts to rise up. I say 'get the eraser our' and he'll laugh and realize he's making a mountain out of a molehill.

I have lots of friends, male and female, who fill the voids that DH can't. My ex-fiance is JUST A FRIEND and will never be more. He is my ex because of those deal breakers I mentioned. He'll never change those, so I could never, ever, not in a million years, even if I was single, go back to that. My ex-husband...oh my gosh, did I mention that door was welded shut??

I don't think that another man could fix my issues that I have with my DH. No, these are my own quirks and pityparty issues and in the light of day, they're quite insignificant when you look at my overall relationship. Every day I come into contact with men who are brilliant, funny, accomplished, and they are respectful to me...which is important. But none of them would probably 'get' how a picture of a pair of cuddling squirrels put on my pc desk top would make my day. And that is why I'm willing to fight it out and stick with my DH.

Well yes... like I said, I've been in therapy for months about this. It's not a matter of the first "pretty face" turning my head and me abandoning my marriage for the first guy who tells me things I want to hear. It's more like he was the catalyst to take a good long hard look at my marriage and my life and what I want out of it. And yes, I do fear that maybe there is "nothing better" out there but I have done insanely self destructive things out of the fear of being alone and that's not a good place to be either.

My husband would also do anything that he is capable of. We have always communicated well and I think at this point I have pushed him to his limit of change. There are only so many times one can be disappointed by broken promises and so many days that one can feel like they are all alone in life before it just seems like it is better to just BE alone and at least not have the problem of taking care of someone else on top of everything else.

BUT I am saying it might have been better and less painful to come to all of these realizations more gradually and not have them forced upon me all at once. I might have felt more ready to deal with everything if I had been truly at the end of my rope and not still a couple of feet from it. I would certainly have less guilt if there were absolutely zero uncertainty about where all of this was coming from. Once there is "someone else" it clouds things immensely and it takes quite a bit of work to unravel things and see through the shroud of guilt and shame and all the rest of it and although I am at a point right now where I do not doubt that I am where I need to be... it's just really hard enough without feeling guilty for someone else's life and their family as well.

There is obviously a ton of detail that I am not sharing but... I just didn't want it to sound like "some guy told me I was pretty, I blew up my life." I mean, we've been together for 15 years and married for 12... I'm not stupid, I'm not capricious, I am not a serial cheater. I am not "that girl." I wish when I was so young and expressed fear to my mom that I was making the wrong decision about getting married that she hadn't told me to get over it, it was just cold feet. I wish that I had enough self esteem back when the possibilities were limitless to take my time and date enough guys to get a real sense of what was available to me rather than making decisions from a place of fear and unworthiness. I wish that over the years I had maybe listened to myself at least a little more rather than giving myself stern talks about adjusting my expectations to the point where I felt like I lost myself. But hindsight is 20/20 and I am where I am and I just wanted to say... it's maybe not the best or healthiest way in the world to get here.

Lisa, more hugs coming your way. I'm not judging you, just sending sincere wishes for clarity. Whatever you decide, go forward and be happy. You deserve it.

Lisa, I wanted to send you some hugs. Your situation and mine are not that undifferent. I am 32 and have been married for 14 years to a man who is honest, good and loves me dearly. However, he is not unlike Bumble's husband in that he is rather boring and cannot fulfill me in many ways, including his perspective. He does not have the same depth. He is the ability to be content with what he has which is a beautiful thing but more heart and soul yearn for more, more experiences, more perspective, etc.

I will most likely stay with my husband for quite some time. One son has autism and our daughter has type 1 diabetes, we have a lot of struggles ahead of us. I have to find my own safe outlets to allow myself to grow as a person within the confines of this relationship.

I commend your courage. Coming face to face with such issues is not an easy thing. It takes courage to face things and try to deal with them. It takes tremendous courage to continue such journeys and whether your path continues on your current adventure with your husband or leads to the start of a new adventure, I wish you peace and happiness.

((((((Lisa)))))) You're a courageous woman to open up as you have. I have long admired you, and your willingness to be so transparent makes you even more admirable, IMO.

I just wanted to tell you that so much of what you said resonates with me - with where I was not too terribly long ago. 8+ years on the other side, and I can tell you with certainty that happiness and contentment can, does, and will come. It may come with another person in tow, or it may come from being on your own and experiencing life on your own terms only - but the feelings of guilt and disappointment and uncertainty are not permanent fixtures in your life. I commend you for making the effort to search your own soul. So few people actually do that. I wish you all the very best as you journey on. I'm certain you'll find your truth and reach your place of contentment.

Yeah, Auntjen. That is I meant to say!! LOL!