3 Heat Pump Quotes

12 years ago

Ok just like everybody else I could use some advice. I'm leaning towards going with the Rheem, because I'm more comfortable with that contractor, but I want to make sure it's not a piece of junk. If the Kenmore or York are noticable better, I'd spend a little more to go with them.

Any opinions? I also added the Lennox as a bonus.

1000 sqf Townhouse in Central NJ, all electric heat,ac,everything.

Quote 1: Rheem 14AJM outside unit, with Rheem RHLL Air Handler. 15 seer 2-ton system. $5700

Quote 2: York YHJF2454151 outside unit 2-ton 15 seer, with York AHE30B3XH21 Air Handler - 2.5 Ton ECM Motor. $6800

Quote 3: Kenmore N4H324KA outside unit - 13,14 seer 2-ton. With FSM4P2240 Air handler. I can't even find this model online, his handwriting is sloppy but I'm pretty sure those are the right model numbers. $6450

Bonus Quote: Lennox XP13 Outside unit, with Lennox CBX27 air handler. $7684

Much Appreciated!!

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Comments (8)

tigerdunes
12 years ago
Frankie

While I do like Rheem, I don't care for that specific HP mdl quoted.

I am not a fan of Lennox and don't want anything that has the Kenmore name on it.

for a new HP system
You should replace everything both inside air handler and outside condenser.

these are the minimum specs you should be looking for.
both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset
10 yr warranty on parts and compressor

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

My personal recommendation is Trane/AmStd, Rudd/Rheem, and Carrier/Bryant.

Depending on your location, I would not purchase a new system that did not have electronic demand defrost.

IMO
neohioheatpump
12 years ago
That York quote is good. Their equipment is very quiet. I have that same model and I"ve been very happy. The rheem would work also if your trying to save cash.
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Thanks for the response. I'll try to address each point (let me know if I skip anything). A local business (Lexington, KY) provided the quote. Monthie Mechanical. I do have the load calculation on-hand. It was designed around: Summer: 72F Indoor / 95F Outdoor Winter: 68F Indoor / 8F Outdoor RH%: 30 Grains The Heat Pump model is: 25HNH542A003 The Air Handler model is: FV4CNF005T00 Technically the Manual J math came out to 3.69 tons. They recommended dropping to 3.5 tons vs going oversized with 4 tons. The quote is for a 20 KW strip model: WKFCEH3301C20 The thermostat in the quote is "TP-PHP". It looks like that's the "Edge" you're referring to? The quote also includes a new drip pan (30x60), 30AMP circuit panel addition, and new concrete Condenser pads for the Heat Pump. The current supply is capable of 1500 CFM, but the current two return are only capable of 1200 CFM. The plan is to either enlarge one of the two current returns or add an additional third return to bring the return CFM up to 1500 CFM. Let me know if you need any more info. :)
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TD, (I am not necessarily opposed to the 4 ton two stage HP condenser. But that would be a mistake without modifications to your ductwork system to handle the extra CFMs, both supply and return.) As I noted, they plan to redo the ductwork. (Has dealer even checked your electric service capacity to handle the heat strips.) Yes, contractor checked and I have 200amp box with extra capacity available. This was upgraded years ago when I added a 2nd floor addition. Ryan, (Has any dealer actually produced a Manual J load calculation to know what size system you truly need?) As I noted, a contractor last year did a load calc and it was manual J. (If you do go with a 4 ton Carrier system I would surely want the inverter system Greenspeed provided duct modifications are made.) I am leaning to Greenspeed but hesitant on the cost. I guess if I can determine if I'll save enough money over the next 7 or 8 heating/cooling seasons, cost would be less of a concern. (I'll say again that the 20 kW backup heat sounds crazy (15 kW likely plenty -- again, load calc). A big system for a 2000 sqft home of average construction (?) in PA.) With basement/garage, it is 3000 sqft. I am not sure of the mechanics of 20 vs 15kw but would the difference just be higher purchase cost for 20kw while the heating cost would be the same since the unit will only draw as much heat as requested from thermostat?
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Never a bad idea to replace the copper lineset, but oftentimes it is very difficult if not impossible (think about condo complexes where the lineset often runs between walls of other condo units). If reused properly (i.e., blown out with nitrogen with a deep vacuum) and the proper size, they don't always have to be. The leak is most likely not within the lineset because it is one solid piece throughout. 2 stage units provide an advantage in terms of humidity control; however the 16i and Carrier models (and any brand using an unloading Copeland scroll compressor) run at around 80% capacity on low, so there isn't a huge turndown for the price premium. While I prefer Trane equipment over Carrier myself, both manufacturers make excellent equipment with comparable warranties, and both should do a fine job if installed properly. I think in this case, if looking at 2-stage units, the Carrier system with the Infinity control is the better system simply because the Infinity control does a much better job controlling the system than does a standard 2-stage thermostat such as the 802. Looks like the Carrier dealer finds that your home needs a 3.5 ton system (or 4 ton if 2-stage) while the Trane dealer is quoting slightly larger equipment. Something to bring up to the Carrier dealer. However if 3.5 tons is indeed the proper size, and a 4 ton is installed -- while it would not be a major issue in terms of comfort or efficiency -- the 3.5 ton would certainly be better in terms of humidity control and efficiency because it would not be short cycling as much on milder days. The single stage Comfort 15 with v/s air handler and the TP-PRH control will also do a good job with dehumidification without the added cost of 2-stage, but with the rebates and the Infinity control I think the Performance 16 is the better choice if going the Carrier route. I realize I haven't exactly convinced you to go with either system, but know that either one should do a fine job if sized and installed properly. The installer is key. All in all, I think you'll get the most out of the Infinity system.
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Mike_Home & Tigerdunes, Thank you – sorry I have been distracted this week. To answer tigerdunes questions: i would want the 60 size air handler for the superior numbers. – I will request a quote for that Anything about filtering return air? – Not from this installer. Another company came out who took 2 weeks to get me the quote after contacting them TWICE – UGH – spoke about the option of adding a filter in the airhandler. I don’t have my notes with me but I think it was an additional couple hundred New lineset? Not with this installer. I asked specifically and he said “most often we are re-using the existing unless it is in really bad shape. As I mentioned when I was out there last, you could could go either way here. A new line set will add about $600 to the project and we would need to run the line set down the side of your home and then install a cover to protect it and make it aesthetically pleasing.” The company that took two weeks to get back to us did mention it and it was I think $600 more to change out and they would run down the side of the house as well. Is the larger lineset worth the cost? What size heat strip? No heat strips were to be installed. Aren't those super inefficient? We currently have an issue in the winter when it gets below 40 degrees that this damn thing goes into defrost every 20 min and blows COLD air in the house. Brings the house to like 62 degrees when I have it set for 70. What I have heard about the newer heat pumps is that they do not go into defrost as often or for as long so I thought we would be eliminating the above issue. thanks
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tigerdunes
12 years ago
Frankie

Get an upgrade price of both the following Rheem Mdl RPQL HP systems.

They are basically the same; one has the var speed blower, the other has the high eff blower.

3592090 Active Systems RHEEM RPQL SERIES RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RPQL-024JEZ Ã¯Â¿Â½ RHKL-HM2417+RCSL-H*2417 Ã¯Â¿Â½ 24200 13.00 15.00 23000 9.00 13900

3592091 Active Systems RHEEM RPQL SERIES RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RPQL-024JEZ Ã¯Â¿Â½ RHLL-HM2417+RCSL-H*2417 Ã¯Â¿Â½ 24000 12.50 15.00 23000 9.00 13900

IMO
frankiethefish
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks to both for the responses,

Tiger, I got a quote on the RPQL model you recommended. The price when matched with the RHLL is just about $7k even. Does that seem like a reasonable increase over the previous quote?

If so, I think I'm going to just go with that one and get it done.

Thanks!
tigerdunes
12 years ago
Frankie

That's the same air handler first quoted. I don't see how there could be a $1300 up charge for the better condenser.

I would ask dealer to refigure to see if he made a mistake. Something just not right here.

What size heat strip is he quoting? New lineset included? New thermostat included?

Post back.

IMO
frankiethefish
Original Author
12 years ago
Ok it looks like the previous price did not include tax, and this one does include tax... thats almost $500 of the difference. So that makes it an additional $800 for the better condenser.
SkyHeating
12 years ago
The better condensor is worth it IMO, I rarely put the in AJM models, they are a bit louder, and dont' seem to operate as well as the RPQL model line which I have no complaints about and neither does my customer. The Efficiency on the heating side is also higher on the RPQL depending on model. Are you looking at the RPQL-024JAZ or JEZ? the JAZ is going to save you money over the JEZ which only adds some tech diagnostics and does not add much to the efficiency. However, If you do the RPQL-024JEZ and the RHKL variable speed instead of X13 air handler there is a $600 factory rebate.
tigerdunes
12 years ago
Frankie

I am not comfortable with the pricing you are receiving.

If you have time, I suggest the following.

Rudd is the sister company of Rheem and has the exact same HVAC. see below.

3612092 Active Systems RUUD UPQL SERIES RUUD AIR CONDITIONING DIVISION UPQL-024JEZ Ã¯Â¿Â½ RHLL-HM2417+RCSL-H*2417 Ã¯Â¿Â½ 24000 12.50 15.00 23000 9.00 13900

If SkyHeating is correct, then I do recommend the RHKL var speed air handler over the x-13 RHLL model

I have found NJ very expensive in the HVAC market.and I do like JEZ for the diagnostics.

I am attaching the link below for the Rudd website which should help you on locating a dealer for your area.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Rudd HVAC Website

3 Heat Pump Quotes

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