Nancy, I've looked and looked through the This Old House website. They have thousands of products listed and I haven't found the one you were talking about yet but I'll keep going through the list. GGG, thanks for the info. I totally know how a crawl space "should" be insulated but this one is so shallow no one can fit under there to do the work. That is the reason the weatherization guy said dirt is the only answer. It truly does need more dirt to create a slope away from the house for drainage but I think it needs something more. I am just imagining something added to the base of the house and that will stick out from the stucco siding and look weird. See the stucco goes all the way to the ground and then has dirt over the bottom edge. Thin Man, when you are thinking about modern building practices you have to take into consideration that this house was built 126-145 years ago buy the pioneers. The county records show that the age is unknown which means that it was built before the town incorporated. We are celebrating the 125th birthday of our town this summer. I would bet that the house was framed with cottonwood or lodge pole pine and that at least the base of it is made from red cedar. The lodge pole pines are indigenous to this area and the other two were planted by very early settlers and during the homestead period and were called tree claims. I would also bet that the stucco on the house is made with river sand and probably wasn't added until the 20's or 30's. The pioneers used what materials were available to them. The houses here all have numerous additions to them because during good times people added on or they added on out of necessity to house their children or to take in boarders. It's kinda funny, it's like a time warp here. Honestly, people are finally having to re-roof their homes and buildings to get rid of the original shake shingles that were used way back when. Those who didn't do the re-roofing when it needed to be done now have buildings that are rotting and caving in. We have low rainfall, sandy soil and no termites in this country and I think that is the reason for the longevity of these houses and buildings. Oh Sierra, I feel so badly for what you are going through. I had a neighbor just like that when I lived in the city. She went so far as to accuse my husband of running her off the road. When it went to court she was 70 and my husband had longish hair and though they had no proof at all, the judge bought her story and sentenced my husband to six months. I had just had my back surgery and was not able to care for my self yet and there I was with three little kids. It was AWFUL! I say it isn't worth it. Move now and find your dream house somewhere else! Really!! Irene, very good information, thank you. I did read up on EIFS. There were numerous lawsuits and class action suits in 2003-2004 because the product, while being an excellent insulator was so good that it didn't allow any trapped moisture to escape. This caused the studs and other woods used in the building to rot. They used the product on almost all new buildings for a period of time. I know that the product system now has a weepage system built into it to eliminate that problem but you are correct in that it must be place 6-8 inches above soil level. So after much research and a sleepless night, what I have decided to do is: move my gardens to the veggie area, let my Aunt go ahead and pile dirt up around the foundation. Close up that weird crawl space area they dug out and fix the cellar door and insulate it as much as possible. When I buy the house in two years I'm going to finance it with a USDA Rural Housing loan. This will allow me enough money to buy the house and do any repairs up the amount that I qualify for based on my income. In this case it will give me about $10K for repairs. At that time I will pull the dirt away from the house, insulate with the highest R-value sheets that are available and then build raised beds with stone all the way around the house to cover the insulation. I would have to put a drip edge along the top of the insulation and seal it all very well and then check it frequently to make sure it staying sealed. The other option is to stucco over the insulation and have a little ridge all the way around the base of the house, which might look weird but may be the more long term way to go. Of course I could add the raised bed against the stucco too and that would cover the ridge. Any thoughts on that? MeMo

Try www.buildingscience.com/ for information about vapor barriers. Another good source for local building advice might be your state land grant university. I do not know anything about your floor finish. I guess you will cringe when I mention pre-finished flooring, but keep reading ;-) The spaces between the boards lets moisture through. With finished in place floors (poly finishes) you have a good vapor barrier. I guess that you understand the "sandwich" prohibition now. If you have a vented crawl space, off gassing will primarily be through the crawl. Ignition is a good question. I am afraid that I do not know much about fire and foam. I know that it burns and that crawl spaces raise fire insurance so it is a good thing to look into. Any kind of covering over the underside of your floor is going to increase the risk undiscovered or delayed discovery of rodent and insect damage. That includes batts, foam or boxing-in with rigid insulation. I do not know if there is any hard information about the relative risks of each method. The rigid insulation alternative is not one that has been addressed in this thread yet. It would be less expensive than foam, if DIY, but it is a lot of work. It has to be taped very well. You could take a hybrid approach and cover selected areas with foam board -- under the most troublesome plumbing areas for example. When you get done with that, you foam the rest. Low density foam pulls out pretty easily. I do not know about high density. You would just have to spray some more in after you make repairs. The problem would be finding the stuff that you need to fix. I would considerer tagging stuff before foaming if it will be covered by foam. You could use durable plastic tags in some color code. If you have a leak, water will run right through low-density foam. I do not think that is so with high-density foam. One important feature of spray foam is the air-sealing capacity. Batts will not do that. That is the problem with it where I live in the humid Gulf South. Air gets around batts even when freshly-installed. It is even worse when it sags. Humid air hits the cool floor, water condenses and does not dry well. Floor rot happens. Even with the best batt installation, the joists become the coolest thing under the house. Condensation happens there and then rot happens. These things worked great before AC existed, but not anymore.

If you can't get into the space and are concerned about moisture, you may want to try what they do with basement walls. You could glue 1" or 1.5" closed cell foam on top of the slab, ensuring all seams are sealed and taped. This blocks moisture coming up through the slab, and cold radiated through the slab. Then go around the perimeter to spray foam any remaining gaps between the slab and the joists, and add molding to seal the space between the slab and the floor joists. The foam board blocks the moisture, and now want to seal the joist areas so that there is no air infiltration. Once you have dead air space around the joists and no cold air entering that cavity, it won't be quite as cozy as having full insulation, but it will be much warmer. Once you stop air infiltration and block the cold radiated up through the slab, your entire joist area will be a 12" thick air barrier. Bruce

Elmer J Fudd4 days ago last modified: 4 days ago No response from klem1, I'm not surprised. Folks don't have time to respond to your drivel because it's not relivant and on topic. No where did I say I know more than any contractor,much less yours. What I said was the statment you wrote make's no sense. "I'm confident the material used by one of the best and busiest contractors in my area was and applied properly." And it doesn't. Then you call me out about "a heat pump whose output temp in heating mode may will be less than from a combustion furnace, there's always going to be a 30 deg F or greater difference between air inside a duct and air outside a duct." I hadn't mentioned any of that. The only time I mentioned air was about temperature relation between exterior of duct and ambient air. Where did you see me say anything about air inside duct? Now slink back to edit after the fact like you are famous for. Just express your opinions and stop challanging mine with your made up nonsense. Unless I'm talking to you it is non of your business and I don't come here to go back and forth with you.