Couple of notes: :: Make sure you have all sizing and model information before you pull the tricker. :: Make sure a load calculation is/was done to determine proper sizing. Just slapping in the old size isn't always going to work. Especially with higher efficiency units. :: For the Carrier system, I'd opt for the Infinity control for superior control over the system. :: American Standard is essentially the same thing as Trane-- mechanically at least, and I must admit I favor Trane equipment. :: Most importantly: Which contractor did you like the best/feel the most comfortable with? Which seemed the most concerned with your comfort? When contractors see you in a predicament like this, they can often boost their pricing since they know you need to get a new system. They will also pull stunts like "Sign today and get the system early next week." I'm not saying it happened, but make sure the contractor is sincere is all I'm saying. Good luck. If you provide more information on these units I can tell you the efficiencies they'll really be getting. Don't always believe the "Up to XX SEER."

Okay, after getting several quotes, we need some advice on selecting the best system for the best prices out of these 3 following quotes: #1 Steve's Service (A+ Rating BBB) BRYANT 165 A Puron 15 SEER / 2.5 ton 315JAV Evolution 80% /(70 BTU) / variable speed CE (coil) / 3 ton Bryant 7 day programmable / wireless thermostat (technician said that it shows Bryant on stat but not made by Bryant? could not locate this one Bryant web site) 4" media filter replacing all current registers with bar type registers 20 years warranty for heat exchanger from manuf. 10 years on compressor from manuf. 10 years parts/labor from company $5600 minus $400 Bryant rebate = $5200 out of pocket cost $5200 minus $1500 tax credit + $3700 actual cost And, since the Evolution furnace will push up the system the SEER to 16, Steve (tech) told us that we would qualify (with certificate from manuf.) for the $1500 tax credit Is this correct? #2 AC COOL (A+ BBB) Bryant 165 A / 2.5 ton Bryant312(3AV036)80% 2 speed 70 BTU Evap Coil CNRPT 2.5 ton Pro line thermostat 4" media filter replacing all current registers with bar type registers 20 years warranty for heat exchanger from manuf. 10 years on compressor from manuf. 10 years parts/labor from company $5800 minus $300 Bryant rebate Actual cost: $5500 (no tax credit) #3 Air Concepts (A+ BBB) American Standard Model: R410A / 4A7A5030B1000A 15 SEER / 2.5 Furnace: variable speed / AMT2B060A9U3VA / 95% / 60 BTU Evap. coil: 4X4C38/80 Honeywell 8000 thermostat 4" media filter replacing all current registers with bar type registers 30 years warranty for heat exchanger from manuf. 10 years on compressor from manuf. 2 years parts/labor from company 1 year maintenance 1 extra 4" filter $5987 minus $1500 (tax credit) = $4587 $4587 minus $200 (gas company rebate = $4287 So far, quote #1 seems to be a quality system for a good price. We would like to make the decision over the next couple of days. Let me know what system looks the best Are we missing anything here in these quotes? Thanks a bunch !!

Thanks for the replies tigerdunes. • The insulation is average to good. There is about seven inches of fiberglass batt in the attic and all obvious thermal chimneys have been insulated (i.e.insulation over lighting cans, etc). We have insulation in the walls, but it would be that typical to 1960s and fair at best. We are considering adding another twelve inches of fiberglass batt to the attic but must address certain existing storage complexities. • Of the finished basement, 800sf is below grade and 400sf is at grade (400sf dedicated to a lower level garage is at grade but not included in the figures). • Electric (NStar) is $0.162/KWh unit cost (delivery and generation costs; fixed costs not included). Gas (National Grid) is $1.3463/Therm unit cost (transmission, distribution and supply costs; fixed costs not included). • The current furnace is and new furnace will be located next to the internal chimney in the front-center of the house, primarily because of front-center existing duct work but also for space considerations. • The venting of a high efficiency condensing unit would be somewhat problematic and aesthetically unappealing. If we went with a high efficiency furnace, then we would also like to install a high efficiency gas hot water heater, because it seems counterproductive to install a smaller flue liner for the existing gas fired hot water heater. Due to setback requirements and snow requirements, there may be a very tight area in proximity to the furnace where two exhausts and one intake could be installed; that area is close to the front door and would be unappealing to my wife and would require some additional carpentry work. I don't believe we have a straight shot up the existing flue because of the main floor fireplace, but I have yet to check. • We are unsure whether or not the existing furnace is short-cycling (i.e. shutting itself down for protection reasons). The cycles are certainly short, but I would guess not, only because we do reach thermostat set temperatures, although it wouldn't be a big surprise. • We have not received the Manual J; we have only been told the results from a whole house standpoint. We are requiring the receipt of the load calculations prior to installation but after a vendor has been picked. • The ductwork has been examined by the dealers. We have one large single return for the main level living zone, one large single return for the lower level zone, and a small return in each bedroom in the main level bedrooms zone; the returns are coupled as a common return prior to the furnace. The zoning, ductwork and returns are very good for the 1960s, but uninsulated and based on five inch supplies; so, the system would be undersized for today, I believe. All ducts are internal to the house, although some run through the garage; all ducts are enclosed and finished, other than those in proximity to the furnace. No modifications will be performed to the ductwork, other than any transition needed to the new furnace. • There is seven inches of fiberglass batt between the eight inch ceiling joists (R20). • The zoning control board will control the HVAC system. The new thermostats are dumb, although nicely programable and aesthetic (Aube/Honeywell TH141). In addition to a common (C), the thermostats accept 24V (Rh), heating (W), 24V (Rc), cooling (Y), and fan (G). The new thermostats do not have any second stage inputs or reversing valve input; we have five wires at our existing thermostats; the new thermostats can be battery powered. • The dealers are familiar with zoning, and with either a dumb-simple zoning control board for heating and air conditioning or a smart acculink system; they are less familiar with the combination of smart zoning control board and dumb thermostats or a dumb-sophisticated zoning control board and dumb thermostats. I am personally unimpressed with the smart thermostat systems; to much unnecessary/unused information; to expensive; to large and prominent. What are your thoughts? • The job is simple, although the air conditioning installation would be new but typical. It seems that I should have about $2500-$3000 in air condition installation cost and about $2500 in furnace installation cost and about $1000 in miscellaneous cost (including the $150 zone control board and the media filter), for $1600 in air conditioning equipment cost (2.5 Ton, 15 SEER) and $1800 in furnace cost (80K Btu, 80 AFUE). That would be $6000 to $6500 total cost. What is your experience for pricing of such a system?

codeslinger First off,I am not a Trane basher. I live about 1 1/2 hrs down 26 from your area and have a Trane dual fuel system. But I would not have the XL16i for several reasons. 1.efficiency numbers are poor for such high end HVAC 2.performance numbers for both heating and cooling BTUs are very poor. 3.I don't believe Trane recommends the XL16i for zoning-it has about 70-100 split between low and high stage. 4.There are just too many anecdotal stories about issues relating to the XL16i. 5.The HW VisionPro IAQ feature "dehumidify on demand" is not compatible for the XL16i which is important for your area/climate. See below AHRI Performance numbers for various configurations. XL16i HP with matching var spd air handler 1236563 Active Systems XL16I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX6024B1 4TEE3D31A1 22800 12.00 16.00 20000 8.25 12100 1236565 Active Systems XL16I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX6024B1 4TEE3D37A1 22800 11.80 15.75 20000 8.50 11000 1 1106622 Active Systems XL16I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX6024B1 4TEE3F31B1 22800 12.00 16.00 20000 8.35 12100 1 1106624 Active Systems XL16I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX6024B1 4TEE3F37B1 22800 12.00 16.00 20000 8.50 11000 1 Good SEER-that's about all now the numbers for the XL15i 1383387 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5024A1 4TEE3D31A1 25200 12.90 15.00 24000 8.50 14000 1 1383389 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5024A1 4TEE3D37A1 24000 12.50 14.75 23600 8.50 13400 1 1383391 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5024A1 4TEE3F31B1 25200 13.00 15.25 24000 8.60 13900 1 1383393 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5024A1 4TEE3F37B1 24400 12.90 15.00 23800 8.30 13600 1 1382158 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5024A1 4TEE3F39A1 25000 13.00 16.00 24000 9.00 13800 much better EER and cooling/heating BTUs for the XL15i and if you have the space, the 4TEE3F39A1 air handler configuration offers the best XL15i system configuration now take a look at Carrier's sgl stg Performance 15 with Infinity Air Handler and Controller 1125333 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA524H30 FE4AN(B,F)003+UI 23400 13.00 15.50 24000 9.00 15100 1 not shabby numbers either. I agree with Ryan's comments. As far as Clean Effects and EACs, I see no problem as the fire related issue has been resolved. There may be a small price advantage for the built-in Clean Effects. As far as the performance/efficiency numbers, there is no difference. I am not a fan of EACs because of maintenance/cleaning responsibilities for the homeowner. There is something to say about the old adage "keep it simple". Most homeowners will not adhere to properly maintaining EACs. For over 99% of homes, a good 4-5" pleated media filter cabinet MERV 10 is more than adequate for IAQ and protecting blower motor and evap coil. Changeout is up to one yr interval, takes a couple of minutes, and is very easy. Foe two systems, you should be able to negotiate a good price on the 10 yr ext warranty-parts and labor. A price below $1k for two systems would be good. Ductwork install is relatively cheap as long as its sized correctly and insulated properly=R8. I see no reason to zone one room as long as it receives the recommended CFMs to match the load. I would want to see a written copy of Man J and Man D and review with dealer. If you do decide on the XL15i, you should insist on the HW VP IAQ stat. IMO