I use Polder remote thermometers and what I began noticing is the butt would slowly rise to 100* internal and then rise a little faster. This is in a 210* smoker, a true smoke house, not a portable unit.

When they hit 150* they would slow down in the temperature rise thing. I wondered why. The link explains that in some detail.

So, my logs show me, trying to get a butt up to 180* in a 200* environment takes time. Lots and lots of time.

That slower rise from the 150* area to about 170* is because the collagen is using the cooking energy to convert to gelatin. Any of us who use gelatin in stews for the mouthfeel will know how much it adds.

I know taking a cut of meat, even one as fatty and segmented as a pork butt to 180* plus, internal sounds like heresy but it is what it is. The protein strands denature, relax, lay flat and you end up with the moist, tender, succulent pork we are all after. Time after time.

I've been able to replicate this in a portable smoker, the type of units we have on the deck, but only by opening the door quite frequently and dumping heat. (After the smoking is finished). Depending on ambient air temp, wind, humidity, how many beer I have on hand and sheer serendipity, I have had a pork butt in the portable smoker for up to 14 hours. Before it hit that 185* internal.

Here is a link that might be useful: Science content, warning.

Interesting observations and Links. I haven't been at it as long as you have, but I am very pleased with my Ribs and Butt (shoulder). I am using a portable smoker, offset firebox, no water pan, more traditional technique. I read somewhere that meat will absorb as much smoke flavor as it is going to in about 3 hours, regardless of the thickness of the meat. Toward that end , I have been smoking for 3 hours and then finishing in the oven.

If you are at all familiar with sous vide style cooking, that is essentially what you are doing. If you put a protein that you want to cook to 180 in a 180 degree cooking environment, it will eventually get there, but it can take 24 hours or more, and it will never cook beyond that temperature. It is also interesting that you have noted that the protein temperatures increases more slowly the closer you get to the target temperature. This is significant as it allows the connective tissues to melt and the proteins to relax and trap that melted collagen as you have noted. The same phenomenon can be duplicated in a standard oven, if you have the ability to set the temp to the low settings as indicated. A pork butt will cook to about 180 internal in a 180 degree oven in about 24 hours, and go no further.

I prefer to "season" my butt in the smoker, and then finish in a 325 degree oven. Ultimate effect is the same, but the process is a little faster. So much to learn about such a "primitive" practice!!

Steve

See what can happen when you take up a hobby like smoking? You can end up doing graduate studies in organic chemistry. :-)

There were a number of things in your post and your links that were new to me. For example, I didn't know that the gelatin conversion affects the rate of temperature rise. Heck, I didn't even know about the gelatin conversion at all!

I do know that the rate of heat transfer between two objects depends on temperature difference. That factor will also slow the temperature rise of the meat as its temperature increases.

Since I am unable to stay on task long enough to smoke a pork butt for 10 to 14 hours, I stay with it long as possible then finish in the oven. The length of time in the smoker can be determined by onset of darkness, emergence of mosquitoes, arrival of lightning storms or other events. I've learned that achieving the correct final temperature is essential no matter how you do it.

I'm using an El Cheapo water pot smoker which requires frequent attention to keep the temperature right. Some day I will built a proper small smoke house which will maintain a steady temperature more easily. In the mean time I get results from the little smoker which make it worth doing.

My first foray into smoking foods was with several nice blue fish fillets. Due to beginners luck it turned out great, better than your average store bought smoked blue fish. I was hooked, of course. I've smoked other things but blue fish remains my favorite.

Jim

Jim,
When you go for the actual smoke house you will never go back.

A concrete slab with a drain in the center (think large shower pan and my drain is 3" PVC, should have been 4") with that drain going out to a dry well pit and then place a wood garden shed on it. Dress up (or not) the outside. I'm lucky as I live in a logging/fishing area so I have access to stainless rod and stainless expanded metal at pretty good rates from the salvage yard. So set up your rods and racks as you see fit. With wood walls you can move, modify easily.

We also have an almost limitless supply of alder and pin cherry around here, they are ditch weeds as well as being used for secondary manufacturing. So getting alder sawdust/chips is no problem. I have two landscapers who know to call if they have a load of pure alder or mixed alder/pin cherry. Lay it on the floor, about two inches thick and light one corner on your way out the door.

Its fun to watch, looks like your garden shed is on fire (you sure see all the points where normal garden shed construction is leaky.)

Open door, walk in and check your product, move around as needed, you do have to play with it to get to know it.

After a while you get to know how much sawdust gives you what length and time of smoke.

Then you can end up like me, I have thermocouples scattered throughout, an electric element in one corner, self opening and closing drafts and dampers, etc. Added over the four or five years since I was granted permission to build this in "our" back yard.

I can cold smoke in it and also use it to cure sausages and do real pemmican in it. Or, fire it all up and quickly hot smoke some stuff. The range of uses is vast, the volume it allows is great and the product is magnificent.

I'll confess unless it is smoked salmon time or we are doing a production run of something for a group of us I do use my vertical, propane smoker more often.

Its not big, about the size of a closet in a 70's ranch house, when it is loaded up there is just enough room for me to step in and reach all the shelves, racks, etc. Anything that can be is hung from rods via stainless S hooks. Sausages are left in links and looped over rods. Chickens are hung by the legs. You still have to shelve butts and briskets and rack wings and stuff.

In a set up like this you can smoke your own cheese w/o melting it as well. We both make and smoke sea salt (just for grins, but it sure is fun and any excuse for a party) and home smoked oysters are the bomb.

I can think of far more expensive hobbies.

Steve,
yes, I agree, the smoke that is needed is shorter than the heat oft times. But. Like starting something in grandma's cast iron pan and then finishing in a stainless steel pan...well, I don't go there.

For me, smoking is a social thing and I've managed to construct my life so I have the time to do it the long way.
Plus I like beer and don't mind my own company so I follow the old sit there until its done adage. Kids or buddies are there in the beginning and at the end and certainly at consumption but I learn stuff about myself in that middle part. Stuff I like.

I was taught how to smoke salmon by the hereditary chief of the Sooke Nation and it was he who told me, "The fish will tell you when they are done."

In the end, though, at least we are eating real food, not something taken out of a box, frozen, eh? Doesn't matter how we get there, Chev or Cadillac...we're on the same road.

Don't know how I missed this thread when it was first posted. Thanks for bringing it back to the top Steve.

What great information! I'm fairly new to smoking and thoroughly enjoying it. My first few attempts at pork butt were quite successful but I'm not at all sure why! I love the idea of a journal so I can track my process and results.

Last week I did bacon and a "cheater version" of pastrami (used a prepared corned beef). So-so results but not bad. Next time the pastrami will be made from brisket. Can't wait to try salmon and/or trout.

July 1st we head to the cottage, that's where the smoker lives, and I intend to spend the summer working on my bacon, pastrami and pork butt.

No doubt I'll be calling out for help!

Chase:

Try boneless short ribs for your pastrami. Smaller and you can get there faster. You can, actually "corn" anything, eye of round roast for one. All less expensive and less poundage than messing up a whole or half brisket.

I'm glad you are "thoroughly enjoying it". Keeping a journal is almost a must for me. I'll not forget the day I was reading over my notes and realized I'd passed from "cooking with smoke flavour" to actual "smoking".

I'm not a writer so its difficult for me to describe but if you keep with it, if it is not a fad for you; you too will transition. Its the difference between bechemal or white sauce and true veloute. Pan gravy and demi glace.

That may sound pretentious but, if you go there, you will know.

And you can do it with cardboard boxes, a la Alton, or you can get all kinds of toys to help you along, some costing as much as a small car.

Wait til you do your first pork belly and end up with bacon!
Then there is your first successful smoked sausages, semi-cured. You will never buy them in a deli or store again.

I cook regular food but smoking is a technique that I obviously can go on and on and on about. And I'm still learning after all the years.

(In a small, metal smoker a load of salmon can flavour the interior such that subsequent loads of pork have a fishy taste...be careful there, you may end up with a second smoker sooner rather than later. It eventually goes away but...)

I love smoked foods so this will not be a fad with me. I've been at it almost a year now but didn't do much over the winter. Lots to learn and I'm eager.

Funny you should mention demi glace. I spend 4 days, once a year, making my own demi glace. A labour of love but the results are worth it. That's how I think of smoking.

Thanks for heads up on the salmon....but how bad could a second smoker be?

I have three at present. At one time I had five.

Plus a charcoal grill and a gas grill.

I used to drag race cars and race off road Jeeps in my youth...this is way less expensive and you can eat your mistakes as well as your successes.

Keep us posted...