Before I got married, my future mother-in-law, who couldn't cook if her life depended on it, was proudly serving these to-die-for multi-layer chocolate cakes for Sunday dinner with her over-baked, more like boot leather, round rump roasts that were the size of Texas. Well, I'd never had anything so lovely as her 4-Layer Chocolate Cake with such wonderful heaps of fluffy frosting, so I asked for the recipe. She smiled and said it was a secret recipe she just couldn't give out.

On another occasion I happened to be at the house on Saturday and had to toss something in the trash. There in all it's glory in the bottom of the trash bin were 2 boxes of Duncan Hines deep-dark chocolate cake mix and 2 tubs of Duncan Hines deep-dark chocolate frosting. Gotcha.....

Secret recipe huh?

-Grainlady

I have a friend who is a fabulous baker who uses Duncan Hines mix for chocolate cake. :) She shares her secret though... :)

My experience of Texas is limited, but they're definitely more mannered than we Californians are. Not better mannered. Just have more specific manners for more stuff. Considering that, I, as well as Madonna, think it's doubly rude of X not to answer even if it was to say say she wouldn't tell, but that may be something they don't do. I know there's a rule in the South and Midwest that you mustn't contradict something, even in the nicest way. Maybe there's also one that you mustn't say no to someone. I know they have that in China, especially when the someone is an authority figure or honored guest, like the teacher whose students said they'd be there at a time they had a conflict so they wouldn't say no or contradict him. Apparently there are linguistic ways of agreeing in Chinese that actually mean no without saying no.

People from those kinds of cultures find the directness and bluntness of Americans from the Northeast and West to be baffling, indelicate and sometimes plain rude.

OTOH, there's a Southern thing where some people feel free to say any old nasty thing as long as it's preceded by "You know I love all of G-d's children, but..." or "Bless her heart, but..." or "You know I'd never talk dirt about somebody, but..." Whereas, in the West, if we're going to talk smack, we just come right out with it.

It might be a similar situation to Grainlady's. The casserole might be Tuna Helper, condensed soup, and Ritz crackers or something, and she's embarrassed to say so, or wants to preserve her image as a cook and not say so. I make a traditional brisket recipe that everyone loves, but it's embarrassing because it's a packet of onion soup mix, a bottle of Heinz chili sauce and a can of caffeine free sugary coke. I've made other really good recipes, but keep going back to the coke one because people like it the best. Since I'm mostly a scratch cook, I cringe when I have to fess up. :)

OTOH, it might be one of those sworn to secrecy, people always request my casserole for the pot luck, if I share I won't be special anymore things.

Should you have asked? Whyever not? It's flattering to be asked even when the secret to tender brisket is Coca-cola (it's the sugar, actually, the breaks down the connective tissue).

Give it time. I have an East Coast friend in the same region who has made friends in spite of her bluntness. :)

Well, if she doesn't give out the secret family recipe, how did the other hostess get it in the first place?

My guess is that X is just rude, she/he could have least have acknowledged the request, then denied it if there were some reason.

I fail to see the reasoning behind "secret" recipes. My stepdad had a secret recipe for his BBQ sauce, when he got ill he only gave it to my brother, with explicit instructions to not tell anyone, even my mother. Pfffft.

I've never known anywhere that it was rude to ask for a recipe, most cooks count it as a great compliment.

Annie

I'm from Denver. If someone asked for a recipe, I would volunteer it without a peep. I think the lady was just rude. Or embarrassed to admit her transgression. Get past it.

Unfortunately, the only stereotypes I know of are PEOPLE. They seem to exist everywhere. Manners, courtesy, graciousness and pure kindness also exist everywhere, if not always encountered. But it can always be given which it seems like you did!

I've only met one person who would not share recipes - and the one recipe that I really wanted was for a cake that appeared in some way back copy of Country Living, so it wasn't really a family secret recipe at all!

Don't give X this power over you - move on. Or tell us what you think was in the casserole and we can help you find it!

Teresa

From a Southerner (Memphis) that has been in Texas 30 years, don't overthink it.

X is rude. She didn't want to share the recipe with someone she did not know well. Southerners and Texans have their share of rude folks, just like everywhere else. But you should not confuse Texas (except for maybe far East Texas) with the South. They are distinctly different as far as manners and courtesy. Pillog is correct, a southerner is more likely to say something derogatory after prefacing with a disclaimer about what she would say "if she weren't such a Christian".

A Texan will probably just say outright "I'm not sure about egregious faux pas, but she's had a bug up her butt all day. " :)

I don't understand not sharing a recipe, even if it's a "family secret", which it's clearly not.

What does she think you are going to do with it - sell it or open a restaurant featuring her casserole?

She sounds rude, and people like that live everywhere.

Maybe the recipe was not really X's........ perhaps, the person asked did not want to give it out, so attributed it to X......

If Mary gives me a recipe, and Susie asks me for it, I am going to give it to Susie. Why would I refer Susie to Mary, for a recipe I already have - unless I am looking for an excuse not to share it?

I think sharing is always nice. But not sharing is perfectly OK too.

There are people who sell recipes (Jeff's Rub, for instance). Obviously they are not going to share for free. And people who bought the recipes are under contract not to share with others.

Asking for someone's recipe is a way of complimenting and is always appreciated.

The problem I find is when you ask someone for his/hers recipe and he/she gives you not the whole recipe on purpose.

Don't expect to get the whole recipe from the chef if you are in a restaurant.

dcarch

She was not a chef, but someone who prided herself on doing things correctly. It was a chicken casserole that had sour cream, cream cheese, cream, cheeses of some kind, noodles, and some some vegetables. DH wants me to make some casseroles, which are not really my thing (unless pommes Anna and tartes Tatin count ;

I share recipes, no secret, when they're openly posted on this and other forums.

My only hesitation, is that I'm not a dessert maker. At a family gathering a few years ago my SIL asked for my lemon cake recipe that I brought to a family gathering. I gave it to her, and she makes it regularly for her family, and brings it to family gatherings. So now I can't bring it as part of my contribution :)

I have only run into this situation once, but I can tell you that not wanting to share was perfectly consistent with the ugly personality of the person with the recipe.

I bet if you were able to research the old Southern Living casserole recipes, you would probably find it.

I suppose some people think they are special because they have something few other people have.
I think that people are special when they are open, giving, and help others.

It's the cream cheese added to the Chicken casserole that sets it apart and makes searching for a recipe for it easier.
Try Tasty Chicken Casserole

And here's one that uses melted Gouda, from Southern Food

I agree with the others here, she was just rude. Regardless of geography, rude is rude.

I've been in South Texas since the early '60s,
And consider myself pretty much "Texan".
There is nothing wrong in asking for a recipe.
Or asking someone if they would share their recipe.
Most people consider it a honest and true compliment.
And most people would have a friendly and polite answer
if they preferred not to share for whatever reason.

Personally, in this case,
I think both people you asked were lacking
In social graces..
But, to give them both the benefit of the doubt,
Perhaps both were simply caught off guard
By your request.

Please don't judge all Texans
(both Native and Transplants)
By this experience.
We are, for the most part, like people everywhere else,
A pretty good mix of all kinds of personalities.

Rusty

You were not rude. The person should have taken it as a compliment that you wanted the recipe.

I've never understood someone that wouldn't share a recipe. In fact if someone won't share a recipe, I just go ahead and make my own version. It isn't difficult if you already know the main ingredients. Go for it Kitchen detective. Yours will probably be even better.

~Ann

So what is wrong with using a box cake mix. If it is good use it. That is all I ever use. Duncan hines are my favorite. I think sometimes you will get a good home made cake but mostly they are tough to me. Just my opinion. Too much work. I think that they are rude by not sharing. Life is too short.
Mary

So, I'm usually pretty good at searches, and thought I'd try (boy, are there some horrific recipes out there!!), but I quit after finding exactly one with chicken, sour cream, cream cheese and another cheese. It's called That Casserole (middle of the page). The blogger said it's from her "great-grandmother's recipe book". It has tomato sauce (as most of the recipes with cream cheese seem to), which you didn't say, so it's probably not the right one, but that might give you an idea about the era the recipe came from.

Re handing out recipes, the surest way to get people not to try to copy my recipes, is to give them away. :) I keep mine in the computer, and am glad to e-mail or print them, but they never seem to want to do a recipe that starts with make a bechamel (directions included!) or proof your yeast. :) And I get questions like, "What do you mean you have to cook the pumpkin before you make the lasagna?"

grandmamary_ga-

There is nothing intrinsically "wrong" with using a box cake mix, it's intimating it's some kind of "secret" recipe I had a problem with. Whether it was just avoiding the truth to "save face", or by spiteful omission, when someone wants something as simple as a recipe - especially for something they truly enjoyed - it tells you a lot about that person.

I was 16-years old at the time (I had been dating her son for over a year), and I thought everyone -- especially back in those days -- made cakes and frosting from scratch, which is why I asked for the recipe.

We always made cakes from scratch at home. It was a generation of women who were one of the last great cake makers. The County Fairs would easily have a hundred beautiful cakes to judge, now they are lucky to have ten. A time when you raised chickens and at the ripe old age of 9-years old you could make an Angel Food Cake when you accumulated enough cracked eggs, without ever looking at the recipe because you'd done it so many times. Cake flour was a common ingredient found in nearly all homes so they could make those beautiful cakes. Cake mixes were NOT the "norm" back in the late 60's. And even if you did use a mix, you certainly frosted it with homemade frosting.

-Grainlady

Kitchendectective, I'm a native Californian and have been living in Central Texas for 25 years.

That woman was rude - not Texan, LOL.

"A Texan will probably just say outright "I'm not sure about egregious faux pas, but she's had a bug up her butt all day. " ---as Cattyles said.

That made me laugh, and it's much more Texan - they/we're blunt, and don't usually preface it with "Bless her heart" or any other sort of Southern homily.

Good luck with the recipe.

Is it a variation of the King Ranch Chicken Casserole?

Not spicy like King Ranch. No tomato either. I so appreciate everyone trying to help here! I think it had peas, mushrooms, maybe broccoli, too.

I know there's a rule in the South and Midwest that you mustn't contradict something, even in the nicest way.

LOL, not that I've noticed.

I never hesitate to give out a recipe, if I have one. The problem is, many of my dishes start out with, "hm, I'm in the mood for chicken, maybe with some middle eastern flavors", and we just go from there. But I'm always willing to share what I can. I've never understood the "secret recipe" thing.

Cj, from Wisconsin.

This post was edited by cj47 on Mon, May 26, 14 at 1:07

I agree; she was rude, and considering the circumstances, I really hope you can find the recipe in spite of her refusal to share. I have many old cookbooks-will see if I can find anything similar.

cj, I agree. I'm from Michigan. I have been told a couple of times that I was "too polite" and I've been known to open my home to "imaginary friends/forum members" without hesitation, but I certainly do not hesitate to disagree if it's warranted. Sometimes when it's not, LOL.

Annie

Kitchendetective: No tomatoes and WITH peas (no mushrooms, but why not throw them in too? This type of recipe is very elastic):

Creamy Chicken Noodle Bake
12" dutch oven

3 cups. cooked chicken, cut up into bite size pieces
2 - cans cream of chicken soup (10 3/4 oz cans)
1 1/4 c. milk
1 tsp. thyme
1 tsp. oregano
1 - 10-oz. pkg. frozen peas
1 - 12 oz - package wide egg noodles, (cooked al dente)(I use no yolk dumplings)
2 Cups Shredded Cheddar Cheese
2 Tablespoons Melted Butter

In a large bowl, mix together cut up chicken, soup, milk, melted butter and peas. Add cooked noodles & 1 cup cheese; stir to coat. Transfer to your dutch oven. Top with the additional 1 cup cheese. Bake for 30 minutes at 350ð. Use 1 1/2 rings on top and 1 ring on the bottom. Serves 8.

There's a photo of the dish on the site (link attached).

I wish to God my mother had used cake mix. Some of her cakes were so bad even the horse wouldn't eat them and he would eat just about anything. They went very well with her TOUGH meat dishes though. Consistency IS a virtue!

Here is a link that might be useful: Dutch Oven Madness

Could it be a version of this?

http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/chicken-romanoff

blah here is link, sorry I don't post here often.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chicken Romanoff

I'm tickled pink when someone asks me for a recipe and more than happy to share - sometimes I share even when not asked!! I'll never understand people who don't or give the recipe but leave an key ingredient out.

OT but along the same lines. I once worked with a woman who always wore this amazing smelling perfume. One day I asked her what it was. Would you believe she wouldn't tell me - said she didn't want us smelling the same (she worked on a different floor than me)! Go figure.

I've lived in TX most of my life, and I consider it a compliment and an opportunity to share both love of good food and the joy of creating for people you care about when asked for a recipe. I not only share most recipes, but I'll tell people how I vary them or get the results I do. And I'll help people find or create a recipe for something they like. The last recipe request I got was for a bean salad. It's an original recipe, but it's something I do by feel, so I had to give her directions rather than a recipe. ;)

Texas is a big place. You'll meet all kinds -- and probably most of them came from somewhere else. Regardless, I don't understand why people get offended or rude about a recipe request or a question about a perfume.

I can't have any cooking secrets with my family and friends...(BIL has type 1 diabetes since a child)...Too many issues...to many dangers...hence no secrets...just not possible.

I see it as chef X has a recipe, chef Y was given the recipe with a 'don't tell' .
Cook Y says to ask cook X for the recipe...shows a secret respect...close friends confirmed...

So who cares...most likely a quick, fat filled, canned this and that, easy and delicious.
Most high calorie crowd pleasers are just that. Costco even sells pre-cooked and chopped and packaged chicken...add a qrt of heavy cream...etc
Often not a secret family recipe to share...just a somewhat deceitful recipe that appears 'home-cooked'...
The 'change of subject' when asked is most likely embarrassment that might be eventually uncovered...

I just laugh every holiday when another BIL makes his oyster dressing. I always kid around for the recipe...he just says, "oh, ya don't wanna know"..."just the way mama made it"...
Pretty close guess that it is a sleeve of saltines, a qrt of heavy cream, a lb of butter, oysters...baked covered an hour, then un-covered a half hour....delicious once a year, : )

I have met wonderful and horrid people here, and many in between, as I have in many places. Just thought that I had violated some local decorum code-- and those codes do vary. It would be riotously funny if sleevendog's analysis were correct because X so prides herself on doing things impeccably. Also because last night I attempted the dish, using sweated shallots and ordinary mushrooms, bechamel sauce, frozen pieces, left over chicken, sour cream, cream cheese, penne cooked in chicken broth, shredded mozzarella, shredded sharp cheddar, shredded parmesan, and pepper. DH pronounced it delicious, except lacking salt, which he thinks about everything that I make. I cannot recall what was different about the way X's tasted, but it, too, reminded me of the turkey tetrazzini in the school cafeteria forty or fifty years ago.

Perhaps the addition of a mix of mushrooms and a bit of nutmeg and thyme would give it more depth.

P.S. If the message was also one of "you are not part of the clique/sorority/secret society," it was certainly received.

That was not a Texan snub, it was a rude person snub.

Dreamhouse1, native Texan.

I agree with Dreamhouse. Rude is rude and can be found anywhere.

~Ann

Oh, dcarch, you touched a nerve. My MIL giggles about sharing recipes on request with key ingredients or steps left out, so that they'll never be the same. I don't get it. The Golden Rule certainly applies to recipes, no matter where you live.

Imaginary Friends

Annie, that made me laugh out loud....thanks.

:-)

Cj

I, a New Yorker, have traveled to a few Southern states on business.

I have been told more than once, "dc, God, take it easy will you please! You are not in New York anymore".

dcarch

Is the false recipe thing the same one as if a New Yorker doesn't know where you're going he'll just give you any old directions?

A friend once gave a recipe without a key ingredient, but it was an oversight not a trick! Anyone who cooks would know that it needed eggs or an egg-like substance to make it stick together. :)

So there was an episode of Mystery Diners on today that was all about employees--who had to sign confidentiality agreements to work--giving out the recipes from a central Texas restaurant! :) At least the ones who said no to sharing did so politely, but that's some stringent guarding of the secret recipes going on down there!

Did you see the link I posted above about Chicken Romanoff?

Yes, thank you. The chicken had no breeding and the cheese was not Jack. However, it is definitely adaptable!

Edited to add

LOL! Breeding was supposed to be breading.

This post was edited by kitchendetective on Sun, Jun 1, 14 at 20:10

My son likes a chicken tetrazzini recipe that uses a can of condensed soup and Velveeta. I have altered it a bit to make it a little healthier, but it is one of his most favorite dinners, so I continue to make it. One time I tool it to a friend whose mother was recovering from a broken hip, They loved it and she asked me for the recipe. I cringed a little because I know she cooks, buys organic produce and likes to generally cook healthier (we both do), but I gave her the recipe, told her what I'd changed and she's still me friend, Whew! LOL

Maybe X and Y had am "oops, we got caught" moment too. Maybe it is made with a can of this, a can of that and nothing resembling a fresh vegetable. Also possible -- it was purchased or made by a third person.

I occasionally lurk, but this reminded me of an experience I had over 30 years ago.

We had a pot luck for Thanksgiving at work, & one of the 'girls' brought...I can't even remember what it was.

She worked in my unit, & she was temperamentai & unpredictable, so I was very aware of her sitting right beside me at the luncheon.

Whatever it was was wonderful, & I praised it to her, adding 'I'd love to have the recipe'.

(not that I ever, at that time of my life, cooked anything that required more than a microwave; I was just being complimentary)

She looked down her nose at me & said, 'Why should I give it to you?'

Some people do just have a bug up their butt, & the best way to handle them is to treat them like asbestos:
stay away from them if you can, but if you can't stay away from them, at least don't stir them up.

'sour cream, cream cheese, cream, cheeses of some kind, noodles, and some some vegetables.'

sounds wonderful without any more ingredients or instructions!

Maybe she buys it from a local catering company, so there isn't a recipe.

When I was about 13, I visited a school friendâÂÂs home. Her mother made the most delicious cookies so I asked her for the recipe. She became very agitated and said the recipe was a family recipe brought from the motherland (Italy) and she definitely would not share it. She went on âÂÂHow would you feel if someone asked you to share a family recipe?â I answered I would be proud to share my French Canadian heritage in the form of family recipes. To which she replied, âÂÂWhy bother? French Canadian food is terrible so there canâÂÂt be any recipe worth sharing.âÂÂ

Needless to say, IâÂÂm a tad cautious and size up the situation before asking for recipes now.

Gosh, those responses were even more obnoxious than the ones I received. I feel better now! LOL.

Glad you can laugh about it now. I still smile every time someone asks me for a recipe since it reminds me of that story. My mother always said, "Don't get down in the mud with the pigs." So I laugh and share my recipes with a smile. :-)

"--- I answered I would be proud to share my French Canadian heritage in the form of family recipes. ----"

Can you please give me the French Canadian recipe on how to steaming lobsters?

dcarch :-)

This post was edited by dcarch on Mon, Jun 2, 14 at 15:52

Dcarch,
Too funny! My Dad used to use Molson beer instead of water and throw the PEI potatoes in the same pot with the lobster while my Mother chastised him in French to not over cook the lobsters. Does that count? :-)