cycles per hour

15 years ago

i have a question about the cph setting on the trane Tstat 601/602 series. does this set the maximum or minimum number of cycles per hour? mine is set to 3cph, an i am wondering if that has anythign to do with my issues. we have been at or over 100 each day but our lowest RH has been 42%. so yes, it has been hot and humid. anyway the AC keeps up fine all day, but once the sun goes down it almost seems like it gets too humid in here. once the Ac kicks on it feels fine, but within 5 minutes after it cycles off it is humid again. of course, right now it is 85 degrees and 82% humidty outside, so that does have a lot to do with it. could i change the cph and make it cycle a little more, without short cycling of course? i have the programming instructions, i already reprogrammed some features so the stat gave me 5+2 setbacks and auto switch from heat to cool since we actually may need both heat mode and cool mode in teh same day at times.

or would the next question be the better solution?

would we possibly get better results by havign the fan speed changed on speed slower to get a little more humidity removal? or would that cause it not to be able to keep up with heat gain? currently the unit can get it down to around 75-76 at best on a 100 degree day, comfortable but set temp is 74 and it cannto reach that until the shade from teh trees hits it. from around 1-4:30 or the condensor is in teh sun and there is no way to shade it due to building layout.

i am not at all unhappy with the system, it works much better than the old unit it replaced last year, just looking for improvements. the system is XL14i 3.5 ton. during the winter it never evne had to kick on teh aux heat except durign defrost, even the nights it got down to the upper teens.

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Comments (8)

ryanhughes
15 years ago
The cycles per hour is how many times the system will cycle on average while maintaining temperature. This isn't a fixed amount; it can vary as the temperature changes (i.e. mild weather or hot weather). 3 CPH is a good comfort/efficiency mix.
tigerdunes
15 years ago
davidandkasie

Trane stats have been and still are a weak link in their product line. I am not Trane bashing as I have a Trane dual fuel system and like you it is not perfect but a big improvement over what I had. Humidity control can be an issue in climates with high humidity even with Trane's so called "Comfort R" feature. I assume you have a matching var speed air handler. Correct?

Several suggestions.

1.Try reducing CPH from three to two CPH and see if that helps.

2.If no improvement, check the Comfort R settings and see what the setting is for cooling BTUs. Change the setting to 350 CFMs/ton.

3.If that does not help, put all settings back to original and replace POJ stat with HW VisionPro IAQ which will give you true "dehumidify on demand".

IMO
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Ok guys, full disclosure. I know to an extent you guys monitor other sites (here HVAC-Talk), and I know I am cross posting. The reason is I am afraid some of my questions now will cross their NO DIY guidelines. I have absolutely no intention of DIY, but I understand where they are coming from. So, here is where I stand (from my posts there): This is what I want, but I don't know how it should be set up (other than the setting above, it may be). I have the HP locked out until 40 (wouldn't mind to lock it out a little higher, but 40 is ok). Anything below 40 is the gas furnace. Also, during the night I set the thermostat back to 65-67 depending on the outside weather. When I get up and raise the thermostat setting, it says Aux Heat on, but I think it's the HP kicking on (temp was below 40)EDIT: I DONT KNOW WHAT'S KICKING ON, BUT IT ISN'T THE HP AND I DON'T THINK ITS THE FURNACE BECAUSE THE AIR IS COOL AND THE TEMPERATURE ISN'T MAINTAINED. Regardless, I would prefer that to be gas-- if the thermostat needs to catch up quickly it should use the gas furnace. If I switch to emergency heat, the gas furnace kicks on and heats quickly. I haven't programmed a schedule yet. The installer comes back tomorrow and may change the settings anyway. Also, if I were to change the setting of 170 to #7 does there need to be a change in any wiring? For that matter, is a wiring change necessary for anything I am wanting to do? Next: I just noticed in the installer settings (200) that my auxiliary heat source is set to 0 (electric). I'm not sure what electric heat I have as backup, but I am thinking this should be set to 1 (fossil fuel)--and in doing so will pretty much give me what I outlined above. So, I think I should set 170 to 7, change CPH to 3, and Aux heat to fossil fuel (gas). Assuming this is the case, then setting 210 (external fossil fuel kit) should be changed from the default of 1 (external fossil fuel kit controlling pump backup heat) to 0 (the 803 is controlling backup fossil fuel). Is this correct? And finally, I did look at the wiring of the thermostat (again, no changes nor have I looked at the furnace or HP), and have attached a pic of the back of the thermostat. Looks different than the Trane 803 because that's the back plate of the old Honeywell 8321 they replaced. I have the back of the 803 with the Honeywell 8321 faceplate. ANY input ANYONE has is appreciated. They are coming back tomorrow to finish, and I want to have THEM do this correctly. Thanks This post was edited by glockman45 on Sun, Mar 9, 14 at 13:31
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Thank you for the generous help from the experts here. The Infinity Control does seem to work pretty well. When the outside temperature is about 40F and inside set at 72F, the furnace runs on low about 3 times an hour (each run about 10 minutes). The system seems to have been running smoothly for almost a month of mild temperature, so I was surprised to catching the following faults while playing with the T-stat. 31 - High Pressure Switch Open (3 times: all happened today during system recovery on High from 1:30pm to 1:51pm) 32-Low pressure Switch Open (3 times: happened 3 separate days, all during system recovery from setback, including one at 1:52pm today) I suspect all these faults happened during High heat, although I don't know for sure for the first two "32"s. I suspect the flue doesn't provide enough air on High Heat only. The furnace is 80K BTU (59TN6A080V17-14) with 2" pvc flue, and according to the installation manual, the Maximum Equivalent Vent Length is 50'. The total length of my flue is about 30' give or take, but the intake has one 45 degree elbow and six 90 degree elbow (3 at the end of the run outside the exterior wall), which reduces the Maximum Equivalent Vent Length by 22.5'. Therefore, at Low Heat, it's not a problem (100' max allowed); but at High Heat, it's at best borderline (50' max allowed). I have set the furnace to Low stage only, so if my theory is correct, there will be no more fault. For the experts here, does this sound plausible? I'm going to call the dealer next week, but want to understand the issue as much as possible to make sure they fix it right. Thank you! Jeff
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ryanhughes
15 years ago
Why are Trane's t-stats a weak line? They are basically Honeywell VisionPRO thermostats, so if they're a weak line, then are Honeywell's VisionPRO thermostats, too? I'm just talking about the XL800 thermostats here. Isn't the TCONT900 essentially the VisionPRO IAQ? I'm not sure if it can be used outside of the communicating system or not, though.
davidandkasie
Original Author
15 years ago
no variable speed airhandler, fan is either on or off. and yes that does suck for humidty control. that is why i asked in teh second part if i could maybe get them to lower the fan speed one notch. it currently blows hard enough you both hear and feel the air from teh vents.

i don't want to turn fan speed down too much and not be able to keep up with heat gain, but wouldn't lowering it help with humidity removal?
tigerdunes
15 years ago
for Ryan,

Trane has nothing even close to the Infinity Control. Until recently, the best they offered was the 803-just overcools for humidity control and no "dehumidify on demand" feature.

Now to the 900XL. I believe this stat is only compatible with certain models/systems. Let me know if I am wrong and I'll stand corrected.

I still say that Trane stats continue to be weak link and it sure makes a statement that one has to go to a third party supplier to overcome a gaping hole in their product line especially with their high end HVAC.

Sorry,just a pet peeve of mine that seems could be easily corrected.

for davidandkasie,

I still would try suggestions 1 and 2. any idea what the blower speed is curently set to? and obviously, you want your fan set on "auto" to keep from re-introducing humidity into your home following a cooling call.

My Opinion.

Best Rgds
TD
davidandkasie
Original Author
15 years ago
will do. and yes, we keep the fan on auto.
ryanhughes
15 years ago
I would agree that Carrier's controls are far superior to Trane's. I wasn't sure if that's what you meant or that there was an actual problem with their controls.
zl700
15 years ago
"Within 5 minutes after it cycles off it is humid again."

I doubt that is possible however, when the fan shuts down you may be feeling the effects of no air movement adding to the cooling effects of evaporation off the skin.

This feeling can be supplemented with a ceiling fan or other fan device.

There is a fine line on AC condenser operation and CPH regarding comfort versus efficiency.

The longer it stays on the more efficient the system is on a average, including moisture removal however, the less often it cycles per hour the larger temp swings adds to loss of comfort.

cycles per hour

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