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Heating & Air Conditioning

Lennox quote help for Texas size HEAT!

mike_near_dallas

14 years ago

Hi folks,

I live near Dallas. Just got a quote for a Lennox AC and gas furnace system for my upstairs, which is 1700 sft w/10' ceilings. Current unit is 2.5 tons and insufficient when it is 103, but it still is working, so I have some time.

Quote is for a 3 ton Lennox XC21 Signature series, with a Signature series G60V 80% gas furnace (2 stage-variable blower speed), new line set, concrete pad, Comfortsense 7000 thermostat, & SpaceGuard pleated media air filter. All mods to make connections at plenums will be sheetmetal. I don't know the coil number, but it is a Lennox coil, and rates at 18.5 SEER. Price is $7445, tax included.

Opinions on equipment and price? Dealer is a small outfit with 30 years experience who seems good, and has done work for friends who recommended him, BUT no effort to do a load calc - said he needed a floor plan. In his defense, he is in his fifties and has a broken foot at the moment.

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Comments (4)

srercrcr
14 years ago
As to the sizing, your 10 ft ceilings make that 1700 sf the equiv of around 2100 sf, which in south texas would call for a 4 ton unit, 48000 btu. 500 sf per ton, unless extenuating circumstances create less solar heat gain.
mike_near_dallas
Original Author
14 years ago
My downstairs unit is a 4 ton for 2000 sft and is OK. The upstairs unit cools to about 78 on a 103 day now, and we want 72 or 73. Not sure if the extra half ton would do it, but I have seen on the AHRI website that with the right coil, I could get 38500 btus of cooling from this XC21 unit/furnace combo, which is 2/3 of a ton more than I have now, and increase the SEER to 19.3 with the C33-49 coil. (Of course, I don't know how to tell the horizontal version of the furnace, which I need, from the downdraft or updraft versions.) I may consider moving up to a 3.5 ton unit, but will lose SEER. Waiting on quote for that now. By going with the humidity control, there will be some possible impact on comfort at 74 or 75, but Dallas can be hot with low humidity in the summer, so may not make an impact in July & August.
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A nice system and reasonably detailed proposal. The XP17 is a very quiet system and does have electronic demand defrost, which will greatly limit the amount of defrost cycles (better for equipment, efficiency, and comfort). For the most part your proposal seems fairly standard to me (both work scope and price wise). I am in your area as well (Montgomery County). I suggest you call the following company as well for a proposal (link below) -- do yourself a favor and set up an appointment with Chris. They do good work (and no I am not employed by them :-) ). I would get a proposal for an XR15 or XL15i with matching TAM7 variable speed air handler. While I do like Lennox equipment, I am not keen on the fact that their coils are still copper/aluminum as opposed to all-aluminum and certainly hope this changes soon as most manufacturers have begun doing so (Trane and Goodman to name a couple). Copper/aluminum coils have historically had leaking issues (as you've seen in your own system) due to pitting corrosion on the copper as well as galvanic corrosion between the Cu/Al. Aluminum coils are immune to the issue (not to say they cannot leak). With that said, Lennox still makes solid equipment, and your primary focus should always be finding the best company to do the work. Most all brands offer a 10 year factory parts warranty now. Any problematic areas upstairs to heat/cool that may be due to ductwork issues (that can be addressed at the time of replacement)? The variable speed air handler will help move the air better, but proper duct design still matters. Its size, insulation value, layout, etc. all matter very much to the overall performance/efficiency of the system. Many home systems are lacking in this area. Attic in the ductwork especially needs to be sealed/insulated well. Here is a link that might be useful: HVAC Installation This post was edited by ryanhughes on Mon, Feb 3, 14 at 19:45
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Sorry, I thought by matching we were talking about the refrigerate R-22 verses R-410a in the coils The coils will be First Co. Evaporation coils matching the existing air handlers I have. Apparently there is no AHRI reference number because First Co has not done any of the necessary testing. The dealer had told me this and that the system would not qualify for the tax credit. The third floor does not heat well with the present arrangement. All of the dealers have told me not to expected much cooling on the third floor. I did not question him as to what the "better options" might be.
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I should also add that here in WA we don't use the AC a whole lot, we'll be more concerned with heating costs. The SEER ratings just apply to AC right? so maybe I should be more concerned with HSPF.. XP14: 9.50 HSPF XP17: 9.50 HSPF XP21: 9.70 HSPF XP25: 10.20 HSPF which tells me, my heating costs will be pretty much the same no matter which unit I go with, right? So if I pair up the XP14 a less-expensive air handler such as a CBX32M, will my heating costs be pretty close to even the high end XP25 & CBX32MV combo?
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fluffybunnysui
14 years ago
I think Srercrcr idea seems the best. The extra 2ft. in your ceiling height needs to be addressed. Any time you have a 2 story home with 2 splits systems, both units not only cool/heat their own designed area but also act on one another as well. While your 2.5 ton unit might be ok for 78-80 degrees room temp. on a 110 degree day, its also benefiting from the bottom unit as well. The cooler 1st floor air will be in the stair case, 1st floor ceiling/2nd floor floor will also be cooler, all because of both units working together.

I would move up to at least a 3.5 ton outdoor unit with a 4 ton vari- spd. indoor unit, maybe even a full 4 ton. If you went with a full 4 ton system, you could get a 2 stage outdoor unit, (the generally don't make multi-stage units in 1/2 ton sizes) and when the heat load was not great, it would run on low spd., saving you money. One more thing to think about... make sure your ductwork can handle the extra air that a new unit will have. IMO

Hope this helps
mike_near_dallas
Original Author
14 years ago
I hadn't realized the outdoor 2-stage units only come in full ton sizes. That seems as though I couldn't go with the higher SEER XC21 unless I went to the 4 ton unit, and that could cause my ductwork to be undersized, so it could really run up the cost. I have to think about that.

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