Carrier Infinity 16 or 19 Heat Pump vs Lennox

15 years ago

Just when I think I've got things figured out (with a lot of help from this forum),

I have another series of questions.

This is for a 5-ton HP in North Carolina, coupled with a 95% AFUE furnace (ICS-3-stage, 58MVC100), and a horizontal coil. I'd been comparing the "best" Carrier unit (Infinity 19) but have come to realize that the ARI certifications show quite a bit of info. When I input the Carrier Infinity 16 vs 19, the EER, SEER, and HSPF were very close. The biggest difference was EER (10.3 vs 10.7), not so great I admit. The cooling btuh figure is actually higher for the Infinity 16, at 59,000 vs 56,000.

Obviously the price of the Infinity 16 is lower. Is there something I'm missing in figuring out the differences? The warranty is the same and the literature is just about the same for the 16 and 19. The only thing different that I can see is that the Infinity 19 has scrolling 2-stage compressor; the 16 has a 2-stage compressor, but no scrolling. Is scrolling worth $1,000? Are there other differences I've missed?

I had been looking at a new, but previous model of the Lennox heat pump, XPXA19-060 configured with its high-end furnace. I'd get a good warranty on the heat pump, but it was manufactured 5 years ago. Performance figures are in the same range as the Lennox.

If I get the Carrier setup (using the Infinity 16) it would be even lower-priced than the Lennox setup I've mentioned.

Any comments to what was to be a short post would be appreciated.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (10)

ryanhughes
15 years ago
I like the fact that the Infinity 16 runs at 50-60% of its capacity during low stage for more humidity removal and longer runtimes. However, the Infinity 16 has to stop to switch stages, whereas the Infinity 19 can switch stages on the fly (if that really matters).
garyg
15 years ago
What exact model numbers, indoor and outdoor units, are you considering? Do you have ARI #s?
Related Discussions
carrier infinity heat pump vs trane xli15
Q
Comments (1)
carl what size systems were discussed? The Infinity heat pumps are two stg and only are available in full ton sizes-no 1/2 ton models. Trane's XL15i HPs come in 1/2 ton sizes from 1 1/2 tons up to 4, then 5 tons. Now to ductwork. Ductwork must be correctly sized to the conditioned air it delivers. Usually it is 400 CFMs/ton both supply and return. So as an example, for a three ton system, you must move about 1200 CFMs of air. If you have a supply leading to the basement, you should have a return. I will assume that the air in basement is of reasonable quality. Ask dealer based on current ductwork system, how much supply air you have and how much return air you have? If you have any hot/cold spots in your home, now is the time to address as they probably are ductwork design/size issues. what is your location? what size are you replacing? IMO
...See More
Carrier Infinity 16 vs 19 Heat Pump
Q
Comments (6)
For penpals ryanhughes and tigerdunes: Yesterday was installation of my new Carrier 5-ton Infinity 19 HP with 58MVC100 furnace and Air Purifier. There was also some constructive revamping of my existing ductwork, feeding in my three returns. The startup person came shortly before the installers left, and everything seemed ok, but when the Infinity Controller was first switched on, the warning of high static pressure came on the screen- I think it said 1.33 at 1750 cfm (but not exactly sure if I've got that right). (If I could figure out how to do it, I could post a couple pictures if that would be at all useful.) The system has been running ok since last evening and I expect to have some people return today or tomorrow to try to figure this out. Is there anything that comes to mind as a possible cause and possible fix? Am I doing any harm by running the system until it's figured out? Thanks.
...See More
Trane VS Carrier Heat Pump Quote
Q
Comments (9)
Never a bad idea to replace the copper lineset, but oftentimes it is very difficult if not impossible (think about condo complexes where the lineset often runs between walls of other condo units). If reused properly (i.e., blown out with nitrogen with a deep vacuum) and the proper size, they don't always have to be. The leak is most likely not within the lineset because it is one solid piece throughout. 2 stage units provide an advantage in terms of humidity control; however the 16i and Carrier models (and any brand using an unloading Copeland scroll compressor) run at around 80% capacity on low, so there isn't a huge turndown for the price premium. While I prefer Trane equipment over Carrier myself, both manufacturers make excellent equipment with comparable warranties, and both should do a fine job if installed properly. I think in this case, if looking at 2-stage units, the Carrier system with the Infinity control is the better system simply because the Infinity control does a much better job controlling the system than does a standard 2-stage thermostat such as the 802. Looks like the Carrier dealer finds that your home needs a 3.5 ton system (or 4 ton if 2-stage) while the Trane dealer is quoting slightly larger equipment. Something to bring up to the Carrier dealer. However if 3.5 tons is indeed the proper size, and a 4 ton is installed -- while it would not be a major issue in terms of comfort or efficiency -- the 3.5 ton would certainly be better in terms of humidity control and efficiency because it would not be short cycling as much on milder days. The single stage Comfort 15 with v/s air handler and the TP-PRH control will also do a good job with dehumidification without the added cost of 2-stage, but with the rebates and the Infinity control I think the Performance 16 is the better choice if going the Carrier route. I realize I haven't exactly convinced you to go with either system, but know that either one should do a fine job if sized and installed properly. The installer is key. All in all, I think you'll get the most out of the Infinity system.
...See More
Carrier Infinity Heat Pump & AC Quote in northern VA
Q
Comments (40)
12" return is almost definitely too large for the basement. I have a 6" return in my basement, and I have actually found it to draw ~200-240 cfm (using a barometer) -- plenty in my case with just a few supply outlets. In your case, I have no way of knowing for sure, but I assume it's piped directly (or near) to the inlet of the furnace blower compartment, in which case there is a lot of pressure and it's sucking in a lot of air and making the basement quite negative (not a good thing). So your basement return in that state may have been drawing close to, if not more than, half of the return air the entire system requires. Is the basement floorplan open to the rest of the home or closed off? If typically closed off, I wouldn't be surprised if the basement door had a tendency to close itself when the system was operating. I suppose putting cardboard over half of the grille is one way to reduce its intake capacity. Your older furnace does not (presumably) have a variable speed blower that will vary its RPM in order to maintain a specific CFM setting. That means that while you are noticing more airflow from the rest of the returns throughout the home, in totality your system is receiving less airflow -- no, not a good thing considering your ductwork is likely undersized to begin with. You have decreased its return capacity. To get the SAME (total) airflow from the rest of the returns throughout the home that were not previously drawing as much air generally requires the system to operate at an increased static; with older PSC type blower motors (non variable-speed), this results in decreased airflow. Hence variable speed motors are often termed "constant CFM" as they can adjust (increase) their speed to maintain a constant airflow (cfm) when subjected to as much as 0.8-1.0" of external static pressure (vs. conventional blowers max. of 0.5", which many duct systems are nowhere close to achieving despite it being the standard "design" figure). You can think of the ESP number as a measure of resistance to airflow, in a sense. The fact that you say the (supply?) ductwork is now much warmer is both concerning and telling. It is unwise for me to say much more than that as I am not there to evaluate your system design and give an accurate assessment of the ductwork design/layout, etc. But it suffices to say, with the info you've provided us, your return ductwork is now more restrictive, which would exacerbate any existing airflow issues. You do say it met the set point without tripping the high limit. Please let us know how the system performs as it gets colder out and the system runs more often in its present state. I would like to ask what made you consider replacing the systems (and proceeding to get 8 proposals) in the first place? Are there functional problems with the existing equipment (besides most likely being oversized) or other comfort issues? By now we have at least established that it is likely the existing equipment is a bit oversized and the existing ductwork is marginal -- but that is (unfortunately) exceedingly common on most residential construction. Are you after more efficiency, better comfort, both? It helps us to help you when we know more about your current system's performance. Lastly, I would not factor online reviews into your decision too much. An air conditioner or furnace is not like most appliances (such as a refrigerator) in that the installation practices and quality can make or break even the best equipment selection. There is a good chance that many (but not all) of the negative reviews you read were due to installation errors. This post was edited by ryanhughes on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 9:51
...See More
tigerdunes
15 years ago
daffer

a high eff two stg HP paired with a 95% AFUE eff gas furnace is overkill for your area/climate. In fact, do you even get the low stg of the three stg in a dual fuel application? I would check to see what your other choices are as to Carrier var speed backup furnace. I would think a two stg would be more than adequate unless the price difference is negligible.

IMO
daffer
Original Author
15 years ago
Tigerdunes:
It may be overkill, but I think I might get some use out of the lower
stage(s) and I want the variable fan speeds that this furnace offers. I'll try to use the heat pump as much as possible (never had one) given that electric rates are relatively reasonable.

Garyg:
Carrier HP: 25HNA660A30 or 25HNA960A30 with CNPH*6024A and furnace 58MVC100-20. ARI #1409574 and #1409827.

Lennox is HPXA19 with CH33-62D-2F and furnace G71MPP-060-020.
(No ARI ref #)

Ryanhughes: Is the stopping to switch stages likely to be a problem in your estimation?

Thanks all.
ryanhughes
15 years ago
In my area (Maryland, not too different from North Carolina), it doesn't seem like the 19 SEER is very popular. I do not think the stopping is a big deal at all--it should run in low stage most of the time and go to high stage only as needed. I prefer the bigger staging differential that the 16 SEER provides--helps with humidity and longer runtimes as I mentioned above. I assume you're getting the Infinity control, correct? All in all I think this combination would provide for a great system (I have no idea about furnace staging as mentioned above).
ryanhughes
15 years ago
There is a 2-stage Infinity furnace that is in the 95% AFUE range. There's also a 80% AFUE 2-stage Infinity furnace. You may be able to save some money upfront and make a wiser investment since you're going with the heat pump (good idea).
PRO
WF Smith, Inc.
15 years ago
The G71 is an overkill in this set up. Why pay for the newest, top of the line furnace with modulating input/output when you should be using the heat pump most of the year? The 2-stage, G61V is the much better choice or, if a chimney is available, depending on fuel costs, the G60V might even make sense (as could a variable speed air handler with resistance heat).

All other things being equal (i.e. quality of installers), if it were up to just those two systems, you'd have to go with the Carrier. Its less expensive, brand new, and has an ARI certified rating. The Lennox is a 5 year old, discontinued unit, that wasn't nearly as efficient in heating.
garyg
15 years ago
"Carrier HP: 25HNA660A30 or 25HNA960A30 with CNPH*6024A and furnace 58MVC100-20. ARI #1409574 and #1409827."

Those ARI#s are for an Infinity 16 heat pump and coil. The numbers are weak for a "16":

#1409574
- 59,000 btu cooling (almost a full 5 tons - OK), 10.3 EER (weak) 14.5 SEER (not 16), 59,000 btu heating at 47F outside (OK), 8.7 HSPF (OK).

#1409827
- 56,000 btu cooling, 10.7 EER, 14.4 SEER, 60,000 btu heating at 47F, 8.7 HSPF.
daffer
Original Author
15 years ago
garyg:
These are the figures that led me to switch my buying preference from an Infinity 19 to a 16. The second ARI reference is for the Infinity 19. One would think that because one is a "19" and the other a "16" that the SEER for the 19 would be a lot higher. But it's actually 0.1 lower, at 14.4 compared with 14.5. I wonder how many people are mistakenly thinking they are buying a much more efficient unit than they really are (especially with the 5-ton units). I think the industry ought to require manufacturers to make their literature clearer in this respect, instead of referring to unattainable figures (or ones that are only achievable with a certain furnace and HP or AC tonnage).

So given no real advantage to the Infinity 19 over the Infinity 16 that I can tell with my configuration, I'm going to choose the lower-priced Infinity 16 (a little lower EER but higher cooling capacity).
bsmith972
13 years ago
I have a 3,600 sq.ft. house with a room above the garage (about 300-350 sq.ft.) I live in Dallas Tx area so I need a good cooling unit that does not run all day.

Suggestions??

Carrier Infinity 16 or 19 Heat Pump vs Lennox

Comments (10)

ryanhughes

garyg

Related Discussions

tigerdunes

daffer
Original Author

ryanhughes

ryanhughes

WF Smith, Inc.

garyg

daffer
Original Author

bsmith972

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Carrier Infinity 16 or 19 Heat Pump vs Lennox

Comments (10)

Related Discussions

dafferOriginal Author

dafferOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

daffer
Original Author

daffer
Original Author