Howdy BDM! Still no delivery date? What gives? Hope you get them soon. I am looking forward to reading your report.

As far as laundry goes, I have started another thread asking for tutorials. Which specific cycles, temps and speeds do experienced Miele owners use.

Mostly I am having a problem with the dryer. Trying to dry without over drying and circumventing dreaded WRINKLES!

Keep us posted on your Bosch's.

Livebetter: Update, please? Please? I'm pathetic!

I have gotten some good suggestions that I plan to use asap.

Covingtoncat - not sure what gives w/my machines other than I ordered a "color" and not white machines. Given the report after my purchase that Bosch is discontinuing there 27" line at the end of '11 I'm wondering if that has something to do with the delay. The dryer is in, just waiting on the washer. I hope to hear something on Monday. My basement laundry area is ready and waiting, except for moving my current machines.

About your wrinkles, remember this your drum on your new machine is a lot smaller, so be careful how much up put in there. Definitely keep the jeans out of the other stuff. And shake out your laundry before moving it to they dryer. I don't have any issues in my small Danby, I spin everything at 1000 rpm, my max on that machine.
GL figuring this all out.

Responding to a message in Part 1 about LG's claim to the benefits of steam, I still don't understand how it works as they describe. LG says you get the benefit of sanitizing while using cold water because the steam hits the fabrics on one side, sanitizing them, and then they plop quickly into cold water. But that cold water is filled with little critters that get right back into your clothes again. How can this possibly work? It's not logical. Also for this to even have a remote chance of success, the steam has to be quite powerful and it has to hit the fabrics evenly and for a certain period of time. From my understanding of these steam washers, you can't even see a jet of steam.

In my mind this just reinforces the fact that it's a marketing gimmick.

Is it possible the cold water is sprayed into the machine at the same time as the steam so that its fresh?

Hi all,

I finally got a delivery date on my Bosch set. Next Monday. The issue was they had the washer, but the dryer had to be built because I chose a color. I will keep you posted on what gives as soon as they are here. Supposed to be a morning delivery. I will have a better time on Friday, but for now between 9 and noon. I guess I know what I will be doing on Monday afternoon and maybe Tuesday. :-)

Congrats! Anxious to hear your thoughts once you've got them up and running.

covingtoncat - how are your new machines working out? I'm sure you've done many loads by now.

I'm getting anxious for Monday. Doing laundry now, but only because I need to. I'll update ASAP.

Livebetter - what did you decide about a machine?

Done a handful of loads and learing my way around the machines. Still not quite gotten the hang of the moisture sensor for the dyer. Wrinkle situation much improved since I corrected the hot/cold mix up of the hoses done by the "pro" installers. Sheesh! At least now I am able to get cold water rinses.

I am looking forward to hearing your experiences with the new Bosch's

Hey Livebetter: I'll second BigDogMom. Where are you in your quest? Deets, please.

Hi All ... so sorry ... I was out of town for a bit and I've been running around for days.

Have not committed ... shameful really ... my poor husband is so over me! My current machine is still hanging in just barely.

I am down to Miele 4842 and LG 2501. I finally came to the decision that the LG 3885 is too much to spend on an LG. That leaves me only with the 2501 as an option (gas dryer).

I was out of town at my parent's house and used their brand new LGs (2140). They are the new entry level ones here in Canada. No heater but many settings/features - really nice machines.

Those LGs sure make me smile. Their laundry is just off their kitchen and those machines were SUPER quiet. You couldn't hear or feel them in the top spin. They sang out their nice little tune when done. I thought the dryer did a nice job - quickly and perfectly dry.

They did a little "cha cha cha" before hand (as my mom called it). I suppose that is them determining the load size but it was funny. They would tumble and then "cha cha cha" back and forth.

As my current machines are 10 year old Frigidaire's, I was quite "surprised" at how little water the LG was using. I did a load with "water plus" and it did add some but not much. I used the extra rinse option with my husband's dress shirts but not with all the regular laundry. I used Clorox Greenworks and Shaklee FS - everything seemed very clean and fluffy. No suds were present in the final rinse. I did 4 loads in all and it seemed fine.

I would love to know if Miele will really clean any better or just be more durable. For the cost, I want it to clean better but there is no way to know that without buying one.

What bothers me most is the Miele dryer. I think it is a small drum and I worry that will disappoint me more than the washer. The LG at 7.3 cu ft had plenty of room for everything to tumble and nothing was wrinkled. Miele is only 6.36 cu ft. LG dryer also has timed drying (60 min., 50 min., 40 min., 30 min., 20 min.) which seems to be lacking on the Miele. The LG dryer has a countdown too which was nice (not on Miele).

If I could live with machines that don't match that might work but I just don't think I can. I have such a lovely laundry room and I'm OCD so it would make me nuts.

I actually wish I could get the LG just below the 3885 - the 2901. That one is 4.5 cu ft with slightly more features/settings that the 2501 but alas - no gas dryer. I thought about it but I'm not willing to switch to electric. Gas heats up faster (just like a gas stove) and has more moisture in the heat (I've never had static) and is still less expensive here.

I'm really not sure what it will take for me to pick one and commit but time is running out on the Miele offer. I need to know before February 13th.

Everyday I wake up and say today I will just decide and I end up reading too many comments and can't pick again. I really need to stop reading - but I can't :)

Livebetter: Are you within distance of a distributorship or know anyone who has the Miele's you are considering so that you can "test drive" them? The company here in the the Seattle suburban area - Luwa - has that capability. They also offered to put me in touch with an Aga owner when I was considering the product line. Does Miele have a referral program in your area?

Maybe there is someone here on the board who is in an easy commute for you? IDK, just random thoughts...

covingtoncat - I'm happy you are learning your way around your new Miele's. Are you happy with your decision?

Livebetter - it sounds to me like you really want the LG's, but feel like you "should" go with Miele. I say pick what makes you happy. In about 10 years you can choose again.

@livebetter... The rule of thumb is that the dryer volume should be twice that of the washer. The Miele W4842 has an 80l drum volume and the T98X2 dryer has a 180l volume. That's 2.25x the volume of the machine. The Miele dryer is sized just fine for the volume of the matching washer.

As far as noise and vibration are concerned, you need to let go of those concerns if you are considering Miele. It's going to vibrate and make a lot of noise. That's just a fact with Miele because it lacks a sophisticated suspension system. If you are looking for quiet and vibration-free operation, you should not buy the W4842.

sshrivastava, thanks for that input.

What measurement is "801" and "1801"? I'm not familiar with that.

Noise is not a factor for me (I think). I built a basement laundry room 2 years ago and the machines sit on tile over concrete. OT - it's a great space with a wall mounted TV and a huge table for folding/wrapping etc ... I have huge storage units that hold all my wrapping essentials and my kids craft stuff. I have plenty of room for my (much coveted) Miele Rotary Iron which is on my "wish list" :)

I've been warned by even Miele about the noise of the dryer. They said being in the basement shouldn't be a problem for me.

I'm not that hung up on the internal heater function. I notice that some who were dissatisfied with their Miele's took big offence to them not using the heater in normal mode. My machine is very close to my water heater and I have a sink right next to it. I often (in really cold weather) prime the line by running the hot water in the sink first.

I do like that it will maintain a warmer temp if it falls below but that's not a huge deal (is it?).

Based on how far competitive products have come in terms of features (not build quality) and how far Miele W4XXX series is from European versions, it gets harder to justify "what exactly" makes Miele W4XXX so much better. I mean almost all machines do a Sanitary cycle now that is same as Miele 158F.

I think my biggest fear is that the Miele won't live up to they hype and I'd have been just as happy (or happier) with the LG. No way to know until you take the plunge and not much you can do once you decide.

I'd like to think Miele has some intuitive controls that allow it to do a much better job cleaning but even LG is now incorporating a "6 Motion Technology" - Get your clothes cleaner and give them a longer life with revolutionary 6Motion technology. 6 different wash motions work harder than ever to knock out dirt without being hard on fabrics. My mom's new machine has this and it was pretty neat to see.

And Miele's "spiel", "Among other important features, Miele's unique Hydromatic Wash System plays an important role in the excellent cleaning results noticeable after using a Miele washing machine. This system varies the speed at which the drum rotates, guaranteeing all your laundry - from your jeans to your silks - are gently and thoroughly cleaned every time, using only a minimal amount of water and detergent." (sounds very similar)

Have to decide and not look back (as my mother always tells me). I have a bad habit of regret (it's a hard thing to get past) so I'm always living in fear I'll regret something. And when that something comes at a rather large price tag ... it's even worse.

We should start a thread about laundry "gurus" who need therapy :)

Hi Dog Mom,

I'd say the jury is still out on my decision. Thus far, I'm at about 50/50.

Cleaning seems better ( internal water heater and temp options), but I'm still seeing the grease spot here and there on dark clothing that I did not notice before washing. Could also be that woolite for darks isn't getting it done, but I pre-treat w/shout beforehand on noticeable spots. Does anyone have an HE detergent for darks recommendation?

Not happy with the dryer. Still having wrinkle issues (although they have improved with cold water rinses and better sorting techniques). Dry times are MUCH extended from previous units. I was not anticipating that with the high spin speeds of the washer. If anything I was expecting less time, not more. The suggestion to have a Miele tech come out and adjust times/temps has been made, but I don't want to spend the $$ right now.

Also, the reduction in capacity is kind of a drag, but I knew that going in, so its not fair to b-tch about it now.

covingtoncat, sorry to hear you're not "thrilled". You were so excited and I really hoped they would live up to your expectations for them.

At least you didn't spend $6,000 on them! My worst nightmare :)

Hopefully it's just a learning curve and you'll get the hang of it.

Hi Livebetter! Don't fret, they may yet. I need to learn the ins and outs still. At least that's what I"m hoping.

If I spent 6K on new MIele's you bet I'd be "thrilled to pieces" or back they would go. LOL ! Isn't there a 100% guarantee on new purchases? Or some no questions asked return policy?

If you went w/the LG's, how far can you extend the warranty? Five years?

I've never seen anything in Canada that offers the 90 day guarantee so I don't believe it applies here.

I could get 5 year extended warranty on the LGs.

So 5 years LG, 10 years Miele? And you can try either for say a few weeks and return for full refund? If yes, get the Miele's first (only because the offer is limited). If they don't work out to your expectations, send em back and get the LG's .

Playing devil's advocate for a second, how likely are you to keep your washer and dryer for 10 years? All of the manufacturers appear to be in a high-tech race to the top, which will no doubt accelerate over the years. We will see new technologies in a few years that we didn't think of today... Will you be willing to forego new things in order to keep your machines for 10 years?

Also I believe Miele says they design their machines to last for 20 years, not 10.

I'm not sure?! I have pondered that as well.

I know if I opt for the lesser priced LGs I could justify moving on from them in 8 - 10 years.

If I decide to get the Mieles - they are more of an investment and I'd have to keep them going beyond 10 years for sure. My warranty would be for 10 so hopefully I'd get 15 - 20.

I said the same thing to my friend who has the Mieles (won't you want something newer in 10 years?). She said, "why if what I have is working?" Her and I are def different. She just wants clean clothes ... nothing more ... and she's not picky. She has the W4800 as she didn't even want the "extras" that came with the W4842 (too many options for her).

I'm a laundry "freak". I really get into different detergents for different uses and trying to get the nicest end result.

I think, deep down, I'm more concerned with performance than longevity. Part of me believes (based on what I'm not sure) that Miele will do a better job. Although, the current CR ranks the washer 12th (score 80 vs top score 87). But the dryer is worse ... score 64 vs top score 83. The dryer worried me before I read that ...

Maintaining the wash temperature matters, if you're doing a long wash at well above room temperature. It doesn't matter, if you're doing a short, not very hot wash (assuming that the load is at the target temperature after the wash fill). Short, not very hot washes are the trend in the non-Miele world, so maintaining the temperature isn't important there. But you can bet that any machine with a sanitary cycle maintains the temperature in that cycle.

The factors in cleaning are time, temperature, mechanical action, chemical action. Miele's longer washes, and better temperature control (including an evenly-spaced choice of wash temperatures) give it an advantage in the first two factors, and therefore a seemingly indisputable overall advantage in potential cleaning performance.

suburbanmd, thank you for that. I guess never having had an internal heater I really won't appreciate its benefit until I have it and see what it is capable of.

In regards to cycle times ... I am only looking at CR but the Miele W4842 normal cycle is 95 minutes and the LG WM3885 is 90 minutes. I realize these cycles do not use the heater but I am just comparing cycle lengths. That seems very close to me? There are other LGs listed that have longer times (ie. 100/105 minutes).

I have been told emphatically by LG customer service (FWIW) that the LG machines do in fact use their heater to maintain hotter temps (not just in Sanitary mode). If that is true does Miele still have the overall advantage?

This is where I think the "gap" between Miele and "everyone" else seems to be closing. Am I wrong?

This is why I seem to be having trouble "justifying" the initial cost of the Mieles. If their only advantage is their build quality ... I don't think the cost is justified.

Livebetter, I don't think buying Miele justifies the extra money spent on them. I am very happy with my purchases, I still need to get used to working with the machines and to dose the detergent.

As Convingtoncat was saying, the dryer is not stellar (performance wise), nothing special compared to others.

I don't think I would of been much happier if I paid double the price though.

10 years of warranty is a nice incentive but if you won't be happy with the machines it also means you'll have to live with them for that long.

My machines are here and my 3rd load is in process. Will start a new thread to review.

Covingtoncat - I'm sorry you are still having issues with your new Miele's. Unfortunately, depending on how much laundry you have in a typical week, the drum size can be an issue. Sorry to hear you are still getting wrinkling. Best suggestion is decrease load size further or turn down the spin speed. As for dry time, that is a drag.

Livebetter - this is my second machine w/and internal water heater and I would not buy one w/o in the future. To me, it does make a huge difference. Esp when you want a hot wash or a sanitary one. And you can't do a good stain removal load w/o a heater as for that to happen it needs to start on low and increase temps gradually to get at different types of stains so that it doesn't set any. I will say again, I really think you want the LGs

Hi Everyone! Livebetter: Is there anyway you can "test drive" either set of machines before you order them? Maybe that would help you choose?

Ripping out a page from Sshrivastava's Book of Devil's Advocacy: If you WERE to get the Miele's there's no reason you couldn't sell them after 10 years (or less if the warranty is transferrable). You'd probably be able to get more for them than any other type of used W/D of the same age. OTOH, if you get the LG's, you can also unload (no pun intended) them after 4 or 5 years, too.

In reality, how much more advancement can we predict for W/D technology beyond steam and auto detergent dispensing? If the basic factors of cleaning continue to hold true (as provided by Suburbanmd), what's left, really, beyond durability and perhaps ease of diagnostics and repair? It would seem to me that Miele has these things covered with their PC compatibility, build quality, technician training and extended warranty.

At 6k, your cost for these units after 60 months (5 years) works out to $100 per month. Extending it to 10 years, $50. If you are under warranty for 10 years, costs to repair would be minimal if at all, correct?

I don't know what you'd be paying for the LG's, but does this help at all?

I guess I'm more like your friend. If what I have is getting the job done WELL, then its all good. If the LG's work for your budget, and meets your family's laundry needs, work out the monthly cost over the 5 year extended warranty period and see what your costs would be. For the sake of this exercise let's assume they would need a significant repair or replacement after 5 years, but not before. How does that match up to the Miele after 5 years? It really should be after 10 though, due to the extended length.

This is the weird way my mind works.

livebetter, cleaning depends on the duration of the wash cycle, not the overall cycle length as reported by CR. On my W4840's Custom cycle, with Extended option selected, the wash cycle is an hour or so (varies with load size).

LG may be saying that they "maintain" the incoming water temperature, but they don't "boost" it if needed (if the incoming water is too cool). If so, that's not a positive. Another temperature issue is the selection of temps. I like the W48XX's evenly-spaced temperatures, from 30C to 70C in 10C increments. Enables you to choose a setting that's hot enough to do the job, but not too hot for the items being washed. It's also nice that Cold is 30C, the temperature that all cold-wash items are supposed to withstand, rather than the more common 20C or less.

covingtoncat, I would expect upcoming "advances" in wash technology to involve further water and energy conservation. For example, see the section "Replacing Water with Plastic" in the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.appliancemagazine.com/editorial.php?article=2055&zone=1&first=1

covingtoncat, the Miele Gallery here is very large (it's home to Miele Canada offices as well). They only have the compact units running which I don't think is a fair comparison. I find it strange they would not have the W4XXX running as this is probably the unit they sell more of?? Another weird Miele decision IMHO.

No one will have the LGs running. I have seen them plugged in and used the controls.

There is no way I will sell them ... too much hassle in my opinion.

suburbanmd, please don't take what I'm saying as arguing with you. I'm really trying to weed through the info and make sense of what is important so these conversations really do help me.

LG gave me specific temperatures for their various settings. Very close to Miele except Miele has one additional at 140 F. For me, warm being 104 F should be supplied from my hot water heater. It is very close to the washer and I prime the line using the sink first so hot water is immediately available.

I'm not someone who will wash a lot in very hot temps anyway. I believe it is very hard on certain fabrics (especially things with elastic or spandex). This is where if the steam technology really works - it will give you the same effect as high heat washing but not be so hard on fabrics.

LG (WM3885)
Extra hot 70 C (158)
Hot 50 C (122)
Warm 40 C (104)
Cold 25 C (77 F)

Miele W4842
Sanitize 70 C (158)
Hot 60 C (140)
Very warm 50 C (122)
Warm 40 C (104)
Cold 30 C (86)

This is my latest info from LG re: the heater usage, "Thanks for contacting LG customer service. The heat pump will only kick in depending on the cycle that you are using and how hot the water is. For example if you are using a cycle where you have warm selected the heat pump will not kick in but if you are using a cycle that is hot or extra hot the heat pump will be used."

I hear what you are saying but considering the Mieles cost double the LGs - is this feature really worth it in the scheme of things?

"I hear what you are saying but considering the Mieles cost double the LGs - is this feature really worth it in the scheme of things?"

To me, no. Only you can decide if its worth it to you.

mihai914, I forgot to say thank you for your input. Honest of you to say.

My friend who has them thinks I might be disappointed with them as well. She thinks I'll expect them to do something they won't do. Could be true.

I know someone else who has them and raves about them but he's the kind of person who would try and justify what he spent on them by talking them up so ... not very unbiased.

covingtoncat, I think I'm getting to that decision ... I think ;)

I change my mind every morning I wake up - LOL ...

The good news is ... if I go for the less expensive LGs my wonderful husband said get the Miele Rotary Iron if you love it (since that is just a total splurge). That's even more incentive to get the LGs.

livebetter said: "... if I go for the less expensive LGs my wonderful husband said get the Miele Rotary Iron if you love it (since that is just a total splurge). That's even more incentive to get the LGs.

Wow.

Do you own a bed and breakfast inn?

That seems like quite a splurge to me! A Miele rotary iron costs $2000.

I think those LG temperatures are respectable. If your house plumbing will deliver immediate hot water (>=50C) to the washer, and the washer will maintain the incoming temperature (which hopefully includes recovering the immediate temperature drop caused by the cold drum and load), then you ought to be able to get a hot wash when you want one.

cryptandrus, no I do not own a B&B (although I've imagined one on occasion).

I iron many things (even tea towels) so I've always coveted the rotary iron. I only know one person who has one and she swears it makes ironing such a breeze (and actually fun if one can imagine it).

It's at TOTAL splurge ... and not necessary to live ... but life is short and we should be happy (right?) :)

suburbanmd, I think Miele probably still has the "one up" on maintaining more accurate temps (except on normal) but I'm just not sure it's enough of a difference to justify such a huge price jump.

Although, I do love the solidness of them ... the dryer scares me more than the washer.

The 13th is fast approaching so I'm going to be forced to decide - thank goodness right?? :)

Thanks for the link, Suburbanmd. I only scanned it briefly, but it looks very interesting. That would be a huge departure from what we are used to, no? I'm kinda skeptical of further reductions in water for cleaning or elimination altogether. That will take some getting used to for my poor brain!

Livebetter, you must be going nuts with all this back and forth. I feel for you. But seriously, if the Miele's did not live up to your expectations (and admittedly they are high), do you think the LG's will? Or will you lower your expectations based on price? Have you read Larsi's (? I think its Larsi) adventures from Miele to E'lux and back to Miele? Couldn't you get your money back from Miele if you returned them due to non satisfaction? IF so, why not try them before the warranty offer ends?

If you would spend 2k on an iron (WHAT?) ....... That's what was spent to buy my DS last car - LOL!

Livebetter - ok, so I looked up the rotary iron, hadn't heard of it. I have to ask, do you really iron "that" much? If so, what all do you iron if you don't mind me asking. You mentioned ironing tea towels, what kind do you use that they need ironed? And I thought I splurged about 20 years ago buying a Rowenta that was over $100. It was a great iron, but since it broke this year, I've been using the el-chepo I picked up at Wal-Mart or K-Mart to send off to college w/my DS. It seems to work just as well for $10 or $15, I just don't like the auto shut off after 30 min regardless if you are still using it or not and sometimes it works better than what I paid big bucks for.

Just curious.

Ok ... just when I thought I couldn't feel any more pathetic the iron thing happens :)

I did mention I'm OCD and I have a "strange" love of laundry right? I did say it was a HUGE splurge. I iron a lot. I too own a Rowenta Steam that I love (also own a cheapie and it does not compare). Nothing presses as nice as lots of steam.

My tea towels are mostly from Williams Sonoma although I have a collection of ones from Ulster Weavers (most bought in Bermuda at the Irish Linen Shop). They are just the best ever http://www.ulsterweavers.com/tea_towels_11/.

I don't iron them because they necessarily need to be ironed ... I can't stand if they are not perfectly pressed folded just so in my drawer (OCD right?). I think of it as Martha Stewart like and not crazy like (LOL). I have a friend who begs me to stop ironing them. She says life is too short.

I press bed sheets (pillow cases and top sheets) - how easy would that be with the rotary iron (bliss). I press table clothes and napkins - again hate doing this with a regular iron - so difficult.

I actually iron most of my kids' shirts not because they are wrinkled I just like a perfectly smooth finish. I definitely press their collared shirts like polos, rugbys and button downs.

The one thing I won't iron is my husband's dress shirts - we made that deal when we got married. I'll launder the shirts but I won't iron them. I'm too much of a perfectionist that one shirt takes me forever! My husband owns roughly 25 custom made dress shirts ... forget it :) We launder them as they cost a fortune and he wants to take good care of them - the dry cleaner would destroy them too quickly.

Apparently you can use the rotary iron for shirts but I think it would take a lot of practice to master. Here is a review for it attached.

I don't believe Miele has that return policy here. I've never heard of it and their website says nothing about it.

I did read Larsi's adventure - what I took from what he wrote was that he loved the way the Electrolux worked he just liked the build quality of the Miele better. I never read where he said the Electrolux did a bad job. He even raved about the space in the dryer. He'd have to clarify if I'm wrong. I actually ruled out the Electrolux as I can't stand the doors (push to open is so stupid).

I thank you all so much for listening to my torment but I'll pick - I'll have to eventually. I've thought about it much too hard and read way too much. My husband said we didn't think this hard about having children ... scary :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Rotary Iron review

Pfaff is a much better iron, available only in Europe. It uses steam - the Miele does not. Other functions are much nicer as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pfaff Rotary Iron

Ok ... I did it ... I ordered the Miele W4842/T9822.
I told myself to pick and do it and move on. No second guessing (gosh I hope not).

Delivery this Saturday - not sure if install will be Saturday or Monday.

I feel nauseous ... :)

sshrivastava, thanks for the Pfaff update - who knew? Something else for me to agonize over (LOL).

Doing the Happy Dance for you, Livebetter. Photos, soon?

Livebetter,

Congratulations. I stopped on the way home from work and ordered ours. I have a bit of work to do on the laundry room so delivery isn't scheduled until the end of March.

Be sure to let us know what you think after you have had a little time with them.

I will post a few pictures when the laundry room nears completion.

W-R

Livebetter,

Congratulations. I stopped on the way home from work and ordered ours. I have a bit of work to do on the laundry room so delivery isn't scheduled until the end of March.

Be sure to let us know what you think after you have had a little time with them.

I will post a few pictures when the laundry room nears completion.

W-R