Forgot to add that apparently the only configuration in my e-mail above that qualifies for the tax credit is the Carrier 21. The Trane would qualify if we switched to an ADP or Aspen coil (does it hurt the overall quality to use another brand coil)? Don't know what we would need to do to get the Carrier 17 to qualify.

Neither system qualifies, not even the Infinity 21, if a Carrier coil is used. It is unfortunate third-party coils need to be used, but if you can get a 10-year warranty on them, should be okay.

The lack of satisfactory cooling from the old system is likely due at least in part to poor ductwork design and sizing. Have that checked out before installing any new system, because high-efficiency systems won't be efficient (no new system will) or perform well without the right ductwork.

Thanks for the input. Yes, we are having ductwork redone and another return will be installed. We found out that there is a duct to nowhere up in our attic. Original installers put in an extra duct that was supposed to go somewhere in our master bedroom/bathroom but never put it through. The duct dead-ends in the attic! Been that way for 9 years!!

I'm so confused about the $1500 tax credit!!

You certainly aren't the only one confused by the tax credit's parameters. Even some sales reps are.

It is good that you are having the ductwork redone. I suggest you have a load calculation done to determine proper sizing. 4 tons may or may not be the right size for your home.

If the Carrier has the Infinity controller, then overall that system will give you more control over your indoor comfort (i.e., humidity). But the Trane will be close to it. I am not a fan of the XL16i--it's specs aren't great for a 2-stage unit (i.e., 1st stage is close to 80% of first stage's capacity, so not much difference; and humidity control, from what I hear, isn't great in 1st stage of the XL16i). The XL20i is a better choice if looking at 2-stage units, in my opinion. I would not pay more for the XL16i than for the 24ANA7 Carrier.

Just checked the proposal and both Carrier systems will come with the Infinity Controller.

Do you have any idea what coil we should get that will work well with this system and also qualify for the tax credit?

Yes you are correct. The sales people are as confused as us about that issue.

Assuming this is an attic installation, ADP should have a horizontal coil (C60H, for example) that meets the tax credit requirements with the 24ANA148.

We've pretty much decided on the Carrier 21. Based on your comments (and others) think the Trane is too expensive and may not be the best choice in our climate.

My new question is on whether or not we should have another return installed. Our only return now is in the front hallway which leads to a small bedroom.

Company 1 says we should have another return in the main part of the house. The middle part of our house is a the living room with breakfast nook and kitchen all in one large area. Off of that part of the house is the master bedroom. They are suggesting putting another return either in the living room or master bedroom.

Company 2 says the return we have now is enough.

Any thoughts?

Definitely install the other return. You can never have too much. More return means more comfort, removing the hot air and promoting airflow and even temperatures. For a 4 ton you certainly want more than 1. Many systems suffer in terms of performance and efficiency because they don't have enough return.

Great, thanks! I never know which company to believe. It's inexpensive to add the second return.

just curious, as I'm in Dallas - who did you get quotes from? Ours have all been ridiculously expensive and we need to get more!
(see my post about a/c quote of 16k!)

Thanks
Louise

vinolover

I do not like 80% eff furnaces nor third party coils. move up to the MVB furnace to get the tax credit and stay with the Carrier ATA coil.

see below.

1409107 Active Systems INFINITY 17 PURON AC CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 24ANA748A30 CNPH*4821A** 58MV(B,C)100-20 46500 11.00 15.00 1

1408857 Active Systems INFINITY 21 PURON AC CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 24ANA148A30 CNPH*4821A**+UI 58MV(B,C)100-20 46500 12.30 16.00

IMO

Tiger, OP is in Dallas, Texas. But you are right, going to the MVB furnace (which many suppliers don't stock now from what I hear, just the MVC) would qualify the system for the tax credit. The price increase and PVC venting might overcome the benefits of the tax credit though.

Ryan

if this was my replacement, I would ask dealer to eat any cost difference. that's the deal and if dealer is not interested, then you could walk away. there is a place in the market for the 2 stg VS 95% furnace and I doubt Carrier will drop it. generally, I thought dealer's pricing was on the high side considering the 80% eff Infinity.

just my thought...

TD

Here's our final deal
Carrier 21
ADP Coil
Carrier 80% furnace

Qualifies for tax credit. That along with the Carrier rebate plus a newly offered small discount from the AC company will make the final cost (AFTER rebate and credit) come to $7900. Of course we have to pay the full out-of-pocket cost now but we'll use a credit card and at least get airline miles.

We had three bids and all came within about $100 of each other. We went with the company we felt like would give the best install and service. We used them 15 years ago to install a Trane system in another house.

The 80% furnaces are common here in Texas. I know a 96% would be better but it would add $2500 to the total cost and require major installation work with changing to PVC pipes, new roof flashing, etc. And we would not see the return on investment for that. Most of the time our winter temps are mild. Our gas bill is about $75 a month for January and February which is only about $40 -50 higher than the other 10 months of the year. It is the $250-300 a month summertime electricity bills that we are trying to avoid.

I REALLY appreciate all the advice offered here. It made this complex process easier to deal with!

Now I'm headed over to the appliance forum to see what we need to do about our dishwasher. It's always something!

Hi, just had a complete system installed yesterday (4-18-2011). I live in N.dallas where cooling means more than heating. cost exactly 7k for everything (negotiated price). here is a list of what was installed for a single story 2000 sqft house.

Trane XR13 4 ton AC condenser - 13seer, 14seer with matching system.
Trane XR80 5 ton 1 stage with 4 speed blower.
New matching evaporator coil with the new R-410A refrigerant.
New return and supply plenums, all sheet metal construction with exterior wrapped insulation.
New manual air dampers at each supply duct.
Added an extra return air duct, grill and filter to double existing volume of return.
New drip pan with overflow float switch (cuts off system if drainage gets blocked - keeps the ceiling from getting water damage).
New electrical disconnect and wiring (located outside by the condenser).
New concrete pad.
New programmable thermostat.
Did all the work required to rid and clean system of old coolant, hauled away old system and did a relatively good job cleaning up.

This new system is so much cooler and has better airflow than the old one and should be more efficient. I really wanted the sheet metal plenums with EXTERIOR insulation and the manual dampers. This should really pay off in the long run for comfort and health. Next time I should just have to replace the AC condenser. Furnace later. All in all I think I got a good deal and I'm pretty sure the work is A+. I paid a little extra for the plenums, dampers and for Trane products.

One reason I went with this contractor instead of the others is this contractor continually offered top notch material, construction and products without me having to ask. The others would match the packages and price only after I asked for the better stuff. This really spoke about the quality of work I could expect, and the contractors doing the work matters more than the brand name. But since I could get the best brand name Trane products with top notch quality workmanship, it really was a no brainer. I actually spent just a little more for this company than the slightly cheaper one for the same work.