Tiger

a few observations.

1.I am not certain the system you purchased is a matched system. It should be. Ask dealer for AHRI matching number.

2.What is the R rating of insulation used for your attic ductwork? Ductwork in an attic install with your area/summer climate can be problematic. Insulation R rating should be the highest available. Relatively speaking, insulation is cheap. How is your overall insulation qualities in your home including attic insulation?

3.65-67 degree supply temp is not acceptable. This has to be addressed. It appears you are getting a temp split of around 10-12 degrees. should be 16-20 degrees minimum.

4.the amount of Lennox cooling BTUs on new AC condensers is rarely the full rated for the size you purchase. In other words you have a three ton AC condenser that is putting out less than 36 KBTUs in cooling. Quite typical for Lennox.

5.I would want a load calculation performed for cooling and would want to see it in writing preferably from sopmeone other than installing dealer. It should be noted that HVAC systems are normally sized for average heating and cooling temps at your inside design thermostat setting, not for extreme temps.

If this was my system, I would be disappointed and concerned as well.

IMO
Good Luck!

I contacted them and asked them if any load calculations had been made. If so could I get a copy of it. Also asked them if they would get me the AHRI matching number. Any other specs that I should have with this system.

Told them the air coming out of my registers was 66 to 68 degrees and not acceptable. That it would be impossible to bring my house down to even 75 degrees.

They wanted to come out tomorrow morning and I said "no". Come out tomorrow around 3 or 4pm when the temp won't drop below 76 or 75 and do all the checking you want. They said they were going to bring copies of any calculations they have done. They did not mention AHRI matching number so I will ask for it when they get here tomorrow.

I called my bank where I got my loan. Talked to them and told them all the issues going on. Happens to be the same bank they use to get loans approved. My bank apparently called them.

BTW my neighbor was over today and first thing she asked what the heck is wrong with your AC.

I will let you know what all I find out.

I went thru these same problems last month after renewing all my A/C hardware. Inside coil would freeze up and the inside temps would climb into the 80's.

Installation Contractor said the pressures were correct and the intake duct was now too small; he would return in a week and enlarge it for $400. I questioned this as I had not increased the btu's and the old unit worked for 18 years.

I paid a 2nd contractor $100 to do an inspection, after looking and testing for an hour; he said the TXV was defective. Thou the part was covered under warranty; the labor would be over $500.

Next, a knowledgeable neighbor came to look at my problem after his 'day job'. After spending ten minutes in the attic (the first person to look up there); he called down to say that he had found the problem and he then had it fixed in 15 minutes.

My "A" coil is horizontal and the installation pad that was glued to the roof above the coil had fallen down and was blocking 2/3s of the airflow.

Do you live in Tulsa ??

My air conditioning is doing much better. They put a recorder on the ac to find out what it was doing. Also finally was able to figure out for about 3 hours in the afternoon the only air coming through the registers was warm air which helped them zero in on the problem. Meant the fan running but not the AC. They came and put on a new thermostat at their expense. Even though the one I had was only like 2 yrs old. It is doing much better now. 103 out today very humid and the temp is holding at 74 in the house.

They are still checking the AC by putting a recorder on it everyday and if they find it isn't running as it should, they are going to pull the unit and put in a another one.

Bobpratt
I live just a short drive from Tulsa.

Are you sure the air flow is the same amount in the afternoon ?? My "A" coil was freezing up and I would confirm when this happened by holding a plastic bag to the intake vent and seeing if it was sucked up to the grill.

What are they recording ? Amps ? Temps ? Pressure ?

103 - that's close to Tulsa. What direction ??

Tigerdunes

I received information today in the mail. I guess this is their way of saying we are done......This is what it says....

AHRI Certified Reference Number 3130605

Product: Split System: Air-Cooled Condensing Unit, Coil Alone

Outdoor Unit Model Number: XC14-036-230-03
Indoor Unit Model Number: CR33-30/36+TDR+TXV
Manufacturer Lennox Industries, Inc.
Trade/Brand name: XC14 Series

Manufacturer responsible for the rating of this system combination is Lennox Industries, Inc.

Rated as follows in accordance with AHRI Standard 210/240-2008 for Unitary Air-Conditioning and Air-Source Heat Pump Equipment and subject to verification of rating accuracy by AHRI-sponsored, independent, third party testing:

Cooling Capacity (Btuh): 33200
EER Rating (Cooing): 11.70
SEER Rating (Cooling): 13.70

Those are the only numbers they have given me.

It is doing better since they replaced the thermostat. Apparently that was part of the problem. Something still doesn't feel right in the afternoons around 1 or 2pm til about 5pm. It's hard to explain even though the temp says 75 or 74 in here it feels like a temperature warmer then what it says. I'm not completely happy. I guess I will have to learn to live with it. Hind site is always 20/20.

I think I could have gotten better for the money I paid. I have no qualms about having the return duct work redone. It was needed and I'm glad I did.

I am concerned this winter when the weather is below freezing. Is it going to be able to be as good as my old system. I didn't worry about frozen pipes or anything. This one has me concerned.

I never did find out what was recorded on the AC unit. I don't know if it showed the compressor running like it was suppose to, if the fan was running when the compressor wasn't or anything like that. It only records for 24 hours and they put it on 3 different times so they could compare the readings. Never received any feedback.

I guess they didn't like my comment day before yesterday. I think I got stung big time.

.............................................

Bobpratt

That is when I notice a big difference is in the afternoon. I also have a very low attic (can't stand up in) and even though I have huge shade trees to the east and west of the house the sun does beat down on it. It is also the heat of the day.

Would you elaborate more about holding the plastic bag to the intake vent. Are you saying if the coil is freezing up it won't suck it up? But it still sounds like it is running like it is suppose to be?

.......................................

I'm not sure why all these dealers are pushing Lennox. Just my opinion.....There are better out there.

TigerByTheTail

I am not surprised by the relatively poor/mediocre efficiency numbers that you listed in the AHRI number. Even more disappointing is the haircut you are taking on the BTU output for the three ton XC14 model.

This is quite typical for Lennox and hope other homeowners read this thread. In your case, the shortage on the BTUs make a significant difference.

I suspect you will be more comfortable in heating mode than cooling.

I will say I am just not a Lennox fan and your problem is one of the reasons.

IMO

Tigerdune, can you comment as to why manufacturers produce coils that DON'T deliver the full BTUs? Am I wrong to blame the coils and not the compressors?

V

V

I have never understood this. It is like shortchanging your customer. This was quite typical on older mdl heat pumps. Full BTUs on cooling but short on the heating side BTUs. Today, that's not true on the better brands/models heat pumps and I definitely don't place Lennox in that group.

One has to believe this is a money issue with Lennox. This particular customer has learned a harsh lesson.

IMO

tigerdunes

I am curious, because this is mostly greek to me, what would the appropriate amount of BTUs be for a 3 ton AC unit?

I may have learned a harsh lesson, but I can guarantee there are three things I believe in.

1. Patience is a virtue. 2. Never go with a knee-jerk reaction. Get all your ducks in a row before doing anything. 3. Karma bites 10 times harder when it comes around. (I may not see it, but it will happen.)

As a senior citizen I was at this dealer's mercy. As my husband used to always say..... I feel sorry for anyone who tries to take you to the cleaners.

I helped my son out last winter. His Furnace was going out and the house he is buying had a Lennox in it. The dealer he went with wanted him to buy a Lennox and he said absolutely not. He wanted a Trane. He paid a thousand less for his system and he has a system that is a thousand times better. He was very impressed with the efficiency of the furnace and now the AC. He is very impressed with the over all even heating and cooling throughout the house. I'm not necessarily recommending Trane, just saying.......After seeing what I'm dealing with, he is so thankful he didn't let them talk him into a Lennox.

TigerByTheTail

I am genuinely sorry for your situation and bad experience, even more so that I learn you are a senior citizen.

You purchased what Lennox calls a three ton XC14 condenser. A three ton condenser with full BTUs equals 36,000 BTUs.

Each ton of cooling yields 12,000 BTUs. So a three ton should yield 36,000 BTUs. In your case and Lennox configuration, the XC14 only yields 33,200 BTUs. Since you obviously need the cooling since you are in a borderline situation, you can't afford the haircut on the BTUs. You would have been better off and probably saved a few $ taking the XC13 AC condenser.

I personally think that not only has Lennox let you down but so did the installing dealer.

IMO