Quote on a Trane Heat Pump in Virginia

14 years ago

Hello, I'm getting quotes on HP systems to replace an 11 year old York that finally gave out, possibly a burned compressor (concerned about cleaning line set)

I was quoted the following on a 2.5T Trane system:

4TWX5030-XL15i

4TEE3F39 air handler

10 Heat Strip (don't know if dual staged)

Not sure of thermostat

Quoted $6300, including line flush

Questions:

Going from R-22 to R-410A, is flushing lines OK (I read about Nu-Calgon) even if compressor burned, possibly lots of contamination?

What is benefit of the 15XLi over the XR15

Do both of these qualify for tax credit? I believe so.

I also had a quote for a XR13 system with a 4TGB air handler, for $4950 (but no tax credit). Doesn't seem like a good idea to give up $1500 tax credit to save approx. $1400, and get a lower SEER system.

Thanks for your help.

I also was quoted for an Amana and Goodman systems, but most of my research didn't provide me the confidence in these low cost systems. Thought on these systems?

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Comments (6)

tigerdunes
14 years ago
navy dave

a very nice system.

you are replacing a 2 1/2 ton system?

I always prefer that a new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset be installed unless there is a building obstacle/obstruction.

here are the performance/eff numbers and this system does qualify for tax credit.

1382160 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5030A1 4TEE3F39A1 30000 13.00 15.75 30000 9.00 18000

the major differences of the XL15i vs the XR15 are the following.

1.Trane's Proprietary condenser top
2.XL15i is a little quieter
3.I would expect the XL15i to be more expensive.
4.12 yr warranty on XL15i compressor vs 10 yr warranty

I would want Trane's 803 stat or better yet HW VP IAQ that has "DOD" feature.

Trane has a 7/12KW staged heat strip that I would recommend.

nothing special about your pricing. see below quote on a three ton XL15i also in Virginny.

Posted by markva (My Page) on Mon, Apr 12, 10 at 14:24

Wanted to get your opinions on the following matched Trane matched heat pump system:
HP: XL15i (4TWX5036A1)
A/H: VS (4TEE39A1)

ARI numbers provided to me are:
36,000 BTU cooling
13.0 EER
15.0 SEER
9.0 HSPF
34,000 BTU @ 47
23,600 BTU @ 17

Included in package are: Trane 803 stat, new disconnect box, new refrigerant line, and replacing 4 supply lines in attic.

Total Price: $6,000 (check/cash) or $6,796 if financed (3.9%)

IMO
ryanhughes
14 years ago
If the compressor burned out, you really want to replace those linesets and not take any chances with your new system. I would replace it even if it involves having to patch a few drywall holes in the basement ceiling (I don't know where your system is located).

Tiger gave good advice. I like the Trane systems. Take a look at the XR15--its performance is very close if not identical to the XL15i, but the XL15i has 2 more years on the compressor warranty, is a bit quieter and has a top that keeps leaves out.
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In response to questions: Yes, the theromstat is included in the deal. I believe the new model is a 4 ton model. The model numbers are 4TNX5024A1000A XL15i 15 SEER 410A Heat Pump and 4TEENF31B1000A Variable Speed Airhandler. (I'm not 100% certain on the numbers, especially for the airhandler, since the handwriting is difficult to follow). This replaces I believe a 2 ton model which is much smaller physically than the new model. Is a 4 ton model necessary or even desirable especially in terms of energy usage? I believe my current system has a humidifer, but I need to confirm that and also if the new system would. There's a "10 KW" Emergency Back-up heater. Is that the "heat strip"? I received this quote at the dealer's office, so he hasn't seen my house or ductwork. I have some concern about my ductwork as my upstairs bedroom (3 level townhouse, air handler on 1st level, bedroom on 3rd level) is typically a little cooler in winter and, moreso, warmer in summer than the thermostat which is on the 2nd level. Though, perhaps, the current system is underpowered. The dealer is an authorized Trane dealer; I found it through the Trane website when I was considering a repair on my old unit. It has the "NATE" seal on the Trane website too. The customer reviews of the company on the internet are uniformly very positive albeit somewhat limited in number maybe 10 total over various sites I reviewed. Thanks for the feedback!
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Wrong air handler as far as performance/efficiency numbers. You want the 005 or 006 air handler with the "L" suffix. See below. 6938465 Active Systems CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING INFINITY SERIES HP WITH GREENSPEED INTELLIGENCE CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25VNA036A**30 FE4AN(B,F)005L+UI 1200 875 705 35000 14.00 20.00 33400 12.00 31000 1 HRCU-A-CB 212 547 Yes 7017320 Active Systems CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING INFINITY 20 HP WITH GREENSPEED INTELLIGENCE CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25VNA036A**30 FE4ANB006L+UI 1200 875 650 35000 14.50 20.50 33400 13.00 31600 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 207 522 Yes What size heat strip? How will you filter return air? IMO
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What are you looking for? The XL18i system is a two stage system, the XL15i system is single stage. The selection of the size of the air handler is very important for best performance/efficiency numbers. 4655313 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5036B1 *AM7A0C36H31 1225 37600 12.50 15.00 34600 9.25 21800 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 311 751 Yes TAM7 36 size for the 3 ton XL15i system. 7117217 Active Systems TRANE XL18I TRANE 4TWX8036C1 *AM7A0C42H31 1185 945 37000 13.00 18.00 31400 9.50 20200 1 HRCU-A-CB 255 627 Yes TAM7 42 size for the 3 ton XL18i system. If this is not a budget decision, then get the XL18i system as I listed with 10 KW heat strip. Pay attention to the air handler model/size. If you are able to interpret the AhRI numbers, you can readily see there are some marginal savings with the XL18i system on cooling and good savings on heating with the higher HSPF efficiency. You are getting some very good pricing. I am done here. IMO Good Luck This post was edited by tigerdunes on Tue, May 20, 14 at 6:37
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Never a bad idea to replace the copper lineset, but oftentimes it is very difficult if not impossible (think about condo complexes where the lineset often runs between walls of other condo units). If reused properly (i.e., blown out with nitrogen with a deep vacuum) and the proper size, they don't always have to be. The leak is most likely not within the lineset because it is one solid piece throughout. 2 stage units provide an advantage in terms of humidity control; however the 16i and Carrier models (and any brand using an unloading Copeland scroll compressor) run at around 80% capacity on low, so there isn't a huge turndown for the price premium. While I prefer Trane equipment over Carrier myself, both manufacturers make excellent equipment with comparable warranties, and both should do a fine job if installed properly. I think in this case, if looking at 2-stage units, the Carrier system with the Infinity control is the better system simply because the Infinity control does a much better job controlling the system than does a standard 2-stage thermostat such as the 802. Looks like the Carrier dealer finds that your home needs a 3.5 ton system (or 4 ton if 2-stage) while the Trane dealer is quoting slightly larger equipment. Something to bring up to the Carrier dealer. However if 3.5 tons is indeed the proper size, and a 4 ton is installed -- while it would not be a major issue in terms of comfort or efficiency -- the 3.5 ton would certainly be better in terms of humidity control and efficiency because it would not be short cycling as much on milder days. The single stage Comfort 15 with v/s air handler and the TP-PRH control will also do a good job with dehumidification without the added cost of 2-stage, but with the rebates and the Infinity control I think the Performance 16 is the better choice if going the Carrier route. I realize I haven't exactly convinced you to go with either system, but know that either one should do a fine job if sized and installed properly. The installer is key. All in all, I think you'll get the most out of the Infinity system.
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classicdave
14 years ago
It cost about $500 to replace line sets = cost of copper and labor so if that is ok with you then I would replace them.

XL15i is a very nice system,
It is what you think when you think of Trane.
When people think of Trane that system is a Trane!

However to compete in the a/c market Trane came out with their tax qualified value model the XR15.
It removes trane's top and some controls.

as others have said it also only has a 10yr compressor warranty while the XL15i has a 12yr compressor warranty.

Price is fair for that system. Add around $500 for new line sets.
tigerdunes
14 years ago
navy dave

if you are really interested in the Trane system, then ask dealer to include the new refrigerant lineset on his dime. I think he has some flexibility to work with you.

just a thought.

IMO
navy_dave
Original Author
14 years ago
Thank you all for your advice. Sounds like a new line set makes the most sense. Air handler is in the attic of a 2-story colonial. So I'm assuming line set runs up the exterior wall through the first and second floors to the attic. I'll check to verify. One contractor talked about running them up the "outside" of the house. Is it really that difficult to run new lines up the walls? I'm not worried about patching drywall, seems I'm doing that all the time anyway. Can you use the old lines to "fish" the new lines up (or down)?
Separate question. I was also given a quote for an Amana and a Goodman system (I don't have the specs with me, I"m on the road). Similarly rated systems, the Amana was a bit cheaper than the Trane, but I've ready some mediocre reports on Amana and Goodman HPs. Thoughts on those brands? Thanks again guys!!!!
ryanhughes
14 years ago
If it turns out they can't conceal the lineset from outside view, no problem. One popular method is running them up a gutter-type drain so they blend in with the home. If there's a chimney on the same wall, easy to run it up adjacent to it. It would be difficult to run the lines up through the walls themselves.

There are times where I would say that if the lineset is properly sized, in good condition, and flushed properly, no problem reusing them. However in your case with the burnout, I just don't think you want to take any chances, as you mentioned.

Goodman/Amana (Amana is a separate line in SOME models, others are rebadged Goodman products) quality has increased over the years. They got a bad rap in the past, but now they are pretty decent units that will do fine if the installer is competent. They have a bad reputation because they are easily purchased (compared to other brands) and often installed with bad practices, leading to problems. Do I think they are at the quality level of Trane? Personally, no. But others will disagree. I'm sure the warranties are nearly the same. If the price increase can be handled, I personally would pick the Trane XL15i system. For the thermostat, see about getting Trane's TCONT802/3 thermostat.

Quote on a Trane Heat Pump in Virginia

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Quote on a Trane Heat Pump in Virginia

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