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Heating & Air Conditioning

Looking for good value/ performance hvac in SC

10 years ago

Builder is suggesting two Trane XB13 heat pump in 5ton for central SC. (4TWB3060B) best of my understanding, one part goes in our unconditioned attic, one goes below the house. I asked and was told by the HVAC guy builder is using that trane Xb and xr have only superficial external differences. From what I have read, there seems to be more than that. Are the differences worth the price difference? What should a price difference be?
The house will be 2973sq up and 3957sq down.
Thanks

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Comments (4)

tigerdunes
10 years ago
No lower than XR series HP condenser paired with Tam7 var speed air handler.

What size is each zone?

Total 10 tons of cooling?...

IMO
udarrell
10 years ago
In a residence; 5-Ton systems seldom deliver anywhere near their Rated Performance, due to lack of enough airflow & other design engineering shortfalls.

The important factors toward generating utility savings is to Improve the Energy Efficiency of Your Home so you can reduce the size of the equipment.

Then you optimize the duct system sizing plus return air filter area sizing; seal the duct system with mastic & highly insulate it if not in the conditioned area. This is where a software Load-Calc along with Proper SIZING is a Necessity.

Use a programmable temp-swing adjustable thermostat to increase the run-time & off-times. These are the factors, among some others, that will improve the chances that the new system will deliver a decent EER & SEER performance.

The only thing that counts in air conditioning & heating is "Delivered Performance to the homes' conditioned areas"

Another real PRO states that in some situations the use of a 1" deep pleaded filter can drop a 14-SEER to an 8-SEER. How many buy & use those high pressure-drop filters?

The only thing that should qualify for a REBATE by power companies & others is the "Tested Btu/hr EER Delivered Performance."

Here is a link that might be useful: Why HVAC Systems are Less Efficient than U Think
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I did a quick Google search on Amana equipment for the prices. I picked the prices of the cheapest equipment. I have no idea what local contractors in your area pay for equipment. My point is you can't expect free equipment and installation as part of a buy one get one free deal. As for the Trane quote you would need determine which equipment was quoted. As a general rule, the installed price is 2X the price of the equipment. The installed price covers the labor costs, overhead, profit, and warranty. The Trane quote your received may be reasonable for your area. You would have to look at the details of the quote to make a fair assessment. I have no experience with Amana or Trane equipment. However the general opinion is Trane builds a more reliable product. I have read Amana and Goodman have improved their quality for the past few years, but then again I have read bad stories on this and other forums. Personally I would spend a little more money and buy equipment which has had a good track record. This is especially true for an AC condenser/heat pump which is subject to the outdoor elements 365 days a year.
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Thanks waynejs, For those of you who know about this stuff, If I have the same system with a 4 ton air instead of the 2.5 ton, How much should the price increase? few hundred? or a lot more? Please advice since I am considering this system with a 4 ton air in the same area. Dave
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ibjammin that condenser is a four ton, perhaps 15 yrs old. here are several 4 ton models/systems I would recommend. Carrier Performance 15 "A" mdl 3405864 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA548A30 FV4CNB006 48000 13.00 15.50 47000 8.70 29400 Carrier Performance 15 "H" mdl(better heating eff) 3405868 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA548H30 FV4CNB006 48000 13.00 15.50 48000 9.00 30000 2 configurations with Trane 4 ton XR15 3523496 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5048E1 4TEE3C10A1 48000 12.50 15.00 45000 9.00 29800 1 3514632 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5048E1 4TEE3F65B1 48000 12.50 15.00 46000 8.50 30200 and Carrier's new 2 stg Performance 16 3495978 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 16 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA648A30 FV4CNB006 48000 12.90 16.50 48000 9.65 29800 all qualify for the tax credit. all are paired with VS air handlers. of course, The Performance 16 two stg will be more expensive. if heating is just as important as cooling, then the Performance 15 "H" mdl, the Performance 16, or the first listed Trane XR15. I did want to list a Rheem as well. 3245605 Active Systems RHEEM RPQL SERIES RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RPQL-048JEZ RHKL-HM4824+RCSL-H*4824A* 46500 13.00 15.00 45500 9.00 29200 This should give you a good starting point. If there is any doubt of the size, your quoting dealers should be asked to perform a load calculation. four tons sounds large for a 1900 sq ft home unless you have poor envelope/insulation or perhaps high ceilings. if you have any hot/cold spots within your home, now is the time to address with your dealers. IMO Good Luck!
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avossohouse
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks for the replies. Tigerdunes- we've bumped up but only to xb14 with tam7 to get the variable speed. Upcharge from xb13, this is costing $2100 for the two units. I will explore xr pricing as you suggest.
Our sqft breakdown for the zones:
1207sq upstairs x3 bedrooms/ baths (three kids) thermostat and return in one bedroom
1528sq ft upstairs remainder thermostat and one return in hall
1216sq ft downstairs master, m bath, closets, study thermostat and 8" return in master
2571sq ft downstairs remainder thermostat in hall two other return is two different hallways
4 pro 9000 thermostats. Honeywell
Install HV modifier
Yes, ten tons total. I was told we are a bit over in tonnage for upstairs but trane doesn't do half tons? Any further suggestions?

Udarrell- thank you for responding. Your response was like a foreign language for me! :-) I read it twice and asked the HVAC guys some questions. Some info- train tam7 injection insulated plastic cabinet, variable speed motor, one in the crawl, one in the attic.
Mastic is code for us. These guys use really big zip ties, pandit straps, duct tape, and mastic. Duct will have r8 insulation. The flexible lines are preinsulated, metal boxes and manifold will have r8 they put on. What do you suggest we use for a filter? By filter do you mean the things I change monthly that are inside the house or something more permanent in the units themselves.
Thanks again.

This post was edited by BINK5 on Fri, Apr 4, 14 at 21:06
udarrell
10 years ago
"What do you suggest we use for a filter?
By filter do you mean the things I change monthly that are inside the house or something more permanent in the units themselves."

The filters you change monthly
. A huge factor is the amount of area for the filters; you'll need at least two filter areas for each A/C system.

Tell us the sizes of the filters & the cooling tonnage/CFM airflow they have to handle.

If you use pleated filters you'll need to use the deep ones; tell us what type filters you're using & their depth in inches.

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