HVAC proposal for New House Construction

16 years ago

We are building a new house in Southern Maine. Our builder has a preferred vendor, HVAC guy (he is a plumbing contractor)) has a good rep but is greatly into radiant heat. I am not. I have stated that I want forced air propane furnace, a/c and a Rinnai Continuum hot water on demand unit.

After meeting with the HVAC guy he said, "Oh, you want scorched air." My red flags began flying.

Our allowance for HVAC is $23,000 and that seemed high to me. Unfortunately the builder told him what our allowance is. Our house will be 2400 sq ft, two stories.

Here is the proposal I received:

American Standard variable Speed condensing propane furnace, model is AUH-100 (I believe it's 95% efficiency)

and three zones with digital thermostats

Hot water is a Rinnai continuum model 2520

Installed price is $18,800

PLUS if we want central a/c he has proposed an American Standard unit 13 SEER for an additional $3200.00

This brings the total to $22,000

I understand that American Standard is a quality brand and I have no problem with that. However, a close friend built a new home last summer, approximately 2000 sq ft, their allowance for HVAC was $10,000 and they did not go over budget. Their equipment was a York Propane Furnace and a Coleman a/C UNIT and a Rinnai Continuum hot water unit. I understand that there may prices differences from brand to brand; however, I think a $12,000 difference is huge.

I am waiting for other estimates.

I would like some opinions for a reality check. Is my allowance out in left field or am I off base? This HVAC plumbing contractor really loves to do radiant heat systems, and I can't but think that he knew our allowance and just made sure he hit that mark.

Thanks for your help

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Comments (5)

vhehn
16 years ago
highway robbery
mikenew
16 years ago
You have increased the cost by going with zoning but if you get a couple of other independent bids you should get a good price that will probably be 15-20% below what you have you just need to be sure it is a comparitive bid (apples to apples) and especially check the guarantees

Here is a link that might be useful: Air Conditioning and Heating Repair Made Easy
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Posted by tigerdunes (My Page) on Thu, Nov 20, 08 at 12:13 Cowgirl with good new home construction, I suspect you are oversized both heating and cooling especially first two quotes. I strongly recommend you insist on seeing the load calculations in writing from your HVAC dealers as well as performing one yourself for comparison purposes. BTW, what is your electric rate? If you decide on radiant heat, I would consider pairing with a high eff HP. If you select a furnace,I would want at least a var speed two stg model. The Bryant Evolution is top of line equipment. IMO
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What major city are you near? This will give us an idea of what the winter and summer outdoor design temperatures are for your location. Does the 5000 sq. feet include the basement? If it does what are the areas of the first and second floors? Basements require little for heating, and nothing for cooling if they are mostly below ground. Get a copy of the load calculation. New construction has no history for HVAC so it is very important that a load calculation with the proper software is done. You have above average insulation so I am skeptical you need 180K BTU of heating, and 8 tons of cooling. Adding more insulation is a good idea, but you may hit the point of diminishing returns. Do you know the gas and electric rates? The return on investment on more insulation may be a long time. It may make more financial sense to put the extra money to more efficient equipment.
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If the HP will be your only source of heating I would look at the Carrier Greenspeed over the Lennox. Avoid contractors that only sell one brand of equipment, maybe ask your builder for the contractor he/she uses. HVAC contractors that do builder work are typically much cheaper than the big hvac dealers who sell directly to customers. The prices for the highest efficiency lennox/trane/carrier equipment is likely within a few hundred dollars of each other...if you want a particular brand and the quote is so vastly different find another contractor. I would definitely spend the 650 for the additional zone. The ability to zone off that first floor bedroom will save you the $650 in a relatively short period of time and will help with comfort in the bedroom. HRV is probably a good idea in a new construction house that is very tightly insulated. An alternate would be to use bathroom fans that automatically turn on for a set period of time each day but you would lose efficiency as you would be exhausting conditioned air from the home...I have no idea what the payback time would be on the HRV.
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bdpeck-charlotte
16 years ago
Here's my quote for a 4,000 sq ft new construction. Our HVAC size is smaller beacuse we're doing spray foam, but the main floor HVAC is oversized to handle the basement of 1,600 sq ft that we'll finish later.

Main Floor
Lennox G61MPV-48C--090 90,000 btu 2 stage variable speed gas furnace
Lennox XC16-048-230 4 ton 16 SEER 2 speed AC Condenser
Lennox CH33-42B-2F 4 ton Cooling Coil
Lennox HCWB2-17 Bypass Humidifier
Lennox ERV Energy Recovery Ventilator
Second Floor
Lennox CBX32MV-036 3 ton variable speed air handler
Lennox XP16-036-230 3 ton 16 SEER 2 speed Heat Pump
Lennox ECB29-10-P 10kw Strip Heater
Overall
Filter HEPA-20
Lennox Zoning Kit - Second is two zones, Main and Basement are independent zones. Also installing a "summer switch" for a main floor guest bedroom.

$25,000 for everything. The HEPA was a $1,100 option.

I would think that you can find a quote between $10,000 and $15,000 with the Rinnai included. New construction ductwork is running around $2 per sq ft around here, so that's a good chunk of my quote. And if you're zoning, I'd opt for dual stage and variable speed. I'm no expert, but I understand that those features work very well with zoning to prevent short cycling.

And when a contractor gives me sass, I don't hire them. The first HVAC guy from our GC didn't want to downsize the equipment, regardless of the Manual J calc. He won't get my business.

This quote was from a Contractor that took the time to answer my questions and advise on issues we had. The "summer switch" was his idea because that bedroom is too small to be it's own zone off the main floor. We wanted floor registers for first and second floor, but he explained that running the HVAC through the second floor would be a huge expense and decrease efficiency (lots of turns in the ducts). He said that we'll try some different ceiling diffusers to make sure that we don't have air blowing directly down on us in a room. If the install goes half as well as our conversations, I'll be refering him to everyone in our location.
mgrallert
16 years ago
Warm air no matter how you make it is going to be expensive over the long run.
mnk716
16 years ago
I agree hot water is the way to go. Forced air is unusual in the Northeastern states. Maybe not radiant but baseboard will work well in those freezing maine winters. however it is your choice and the HVAC guy should respect that.

installation seems really expensive however you need to get at least 2-3 more quotes.

good luck

HVAC proposal for New House Construction

Comments (5)

vhehn

mikenew

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