Bread Problem

15 years ago

I made the oatmeal bread in the Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes book yesterday. I made the bread right away, however, and didn't have it sitting in the fridge for days. I was trying to recreate another bread I like, however, so I did make some changes to the recipe. I didn't have wheat bran, so I substituted 1/3 cup of oat flour instead. Maybe I should have used all oat bran instead? I also used 1/2 cup honey instead of the maple syrup. The recipe called for 1 & 3/4 cups water and 1 cup of milk and I switched them - I used 1 & 3/4 cup milk and 1 cup water instead as I was looking for a rich bread. I also added 1/4 cup wheat berries, 1/4 cup steel cut oats, and 1/8 cup sesame seeds as I wanted a "nutty" hearty bread. And I let those soak in the milk to soften before incorporating everything, but I think I could have let them soak more as there were a few "harder" bits, altho I like that texture in my bread. Oh, and I only used 1/8 cup oil instead of 1/4 cup to cut the amount of fat.

It tasted delicious, however, it was very "flat". I made two free form loaves and put one in a bread pan. None of them rose very high. I like the taste and texture, as I said, however, what can I do to make the loaves rise higher? And was it my substitutions that maybe made the bread too heavy? For the first time, my bread had a nice crust on it tho so that was a good thing! I didn't use a stone, but I did put a pan underneath and added some water when I put the bread in the oven.

How can I incorporate the wheat berries and steel cut oats and other "nutty" "crunchy" additives to bread and make it work?

Lisa

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Comments (10)

lindac
15 years ago
When you get adding lots of "nuts and flakes" to bread, you will get a more dense loaf....because there just isn't enough "bread" to hold up all the flax seeds, sunflower seeds oat flakes, bran flakes etc.
Try using a little bit more bread flour and a couple of tablespoons of wheat gluten.....and letting it have a long rise also helps develope the gluten....and adding organic rye flakes seems to help with the rise as well.
And....dense bread isn't a bad thing!
Linda C
lisazone6_ma
Original Author
15 years ago
No it isn't lol!! As a matter of fact, it's like a running joke in my family that I like "dense" food! Anytime we're eating out and I mention I like a particular food one of my SIL's usually pipes up with, ya, it's dense lol!! The bread is actually fine for me just the way it is, but if I could get a higher loaf I could use it to make sandwiches for my husband and son's lunches. The way it is now it's just not "wide" enough to use for a sandwich. It tastes fabulous tho!

I can't recall the exact amount off the top of my head, but it was a cup and a half of rolled oats and I think a cup of whole wheat flour. The rest was either 4 1/4 or 4 1/2 cups plain white flour. So I assumed there would be enough "regular" flour to handle the amount of wheat berries and steel cut oats I added. It called for 1/2 cup of oat bran which I had, then the 1/3 cup of wheat bran that I substituted the oat flour for. I was going to add a half cup each of the berries/cut oats at first, but it looked like a lot so I cut them back to a quarter cup each. I don't think the 1/8th cup sesame seeds added that much as they're practically weightless.

Next batch I'll try adding the wheat gluten and letting it rise longer. It looked like it had doubled in size but maybe it needed more time. And this was my first time using this particular method, so the dough was pretty wet compared to what I'm used to. Maybe if I had let it sit in the fridge for a day or so it might have risen higher when I finally made it? Has anyone else made the 5 minute Artisan breads, but made it right away instead of sitting for awhile?

I'm really out to incorporate multiple grains and whole grains into my breads. Other than a few specialty types I want to try later on, I'm after a hearty, chewey "dense" bread right now!

Lisa
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partst
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I am trying to recreate a honey wheat berry bread that DH really likes but I am tired of paying five bucks for. I have messed around with adding just about everything you mentioned. I found I had to cook the wheat berries for almost 2 hours to get the texture I was looking for. I am also soaking the oats for about 10 minutes and draining them before adding. The recipe I am working on has 2 tablespoons of melted butter and no other oils at all. Like Linda said adding a couple of tablespoons of wheat gluten finally gave me the rise I wanted. ItÂs still a work in process this week I am using frozen, thawed, cooked wheat berries. They are time consuming to cook so I cooked a pot full and froze them in 3/4 cup portions. All the recipes I looked at called for either fresh milk or powdered milk, I never have fresh milk on hand, so I used a 5 oz can of evaporated milk adding enough water to make a full cup and it worked out fine. DH says I have the taste right on and now my dad wants a bread delivery every week.

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hawk307
15 years ago
Lisa:
Can I see your Recipe ?
Lou
readinglady
15 years ago
I posted this comment on Harvest in an earlier discussion of whole-grain breads:

"If you're adding wheat berries or other hard, chunky amendments to the dough, it's a good idea to add those near the end. Say you're adding 7-grain cereal. Added early the sharp bits tend to cut the gluten strands, resulting in a less well-risen loaf.

If necessary, pre-soak or cook briefly to soften the grains and compensate for the fact that they're being added late in the process."

Using a sponge and doing your bread in stages will help produce a lighter whole grain bread. Also, whole grain breads tend to result in a stickier dough. Don't keep adding flour to bring the dough to the consistency of a white loaf. Instead, oil your hands to reduce sticking while kneading or shaping the loaves.

Lots of amendments added too early+too much flour=a brick, LOL. (Ask me how I know!)

Carol
lisazone6_ma
Original Author
15 years ago
I didn't think to presoak them - I just let them soak in the warm milk for about 10 minutes. I guess I'll "cook" them for a while next time and see if that helps. I forgot about that Carol - I remember grainlady saying something about the hard bits cutting the gluten strands but of course I completely forgot about it!! Where this bread isn't really kneaded at all, I don't know if that matters, however.

Lou - the book is at home. I'll copy the actual recipe and post it tomorrow.

As I keep saying, it tasted great. I liked the texture, the crust, the taste - everything about it other than it needs to rise another couple inches!

Claudia - that's why I'm trying to make these breads myself! At close to $5 for a half a loaf, it's worth making. As long as I can perfect the recipe of course!

Lisa
malna
15 years ago
Lisa, I can really relate to your problem. DH calls it my "cowpat" bread. LOL!

It tastes great, he loves the texture and the crust, but it's only 2" high! I've only done the master recipe and the rye bread, so I haven't even tinkered with adding other "stuff".
lisazone6_ma
Original Author
15 years ago
A day late and a dollar short, but anyway, here's that recipe Lou!

I hope people can post suggestions as I really like this bread and I'm determined to perfect a recipe that's loaded in whole grains and fiber, with lots of what in my house we call "groats" sprinkled throughout the bread, but that will also rise and not be like a rock!

It's from the Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day book and it's their recipe for oatmeal bread:

1 3/4 cups lukewarm water
1 cup whole milk
1/2 cup maple syrup
1 1/2 Tbsp yeast
1 Tbsp salt
1/4 cup veg oil
1/2 cut oat bran
1/3 cup wheat bran
1 1/2 cups old fashioned rolled oats
1/2 cup whole wheat flour
4 1/4 cups unbleached all purpose flour

My changes were:

I switched the milk and water, using 1 3/4 cup milk (I didn't have whole and I can't recall if I used 1% or 2%) and 1 cup of water.

I used honey in place of the maple syrup.

I didn't have wheat bran so I used 1/3 cup oat flour in its place.

I reduced the oil to 1/8th cup.

Then I added the following and soaked them in the milk for about 10-15 minutes (but I think I should have soaked them longer as they were still a bit hard):

1/4 cup steel cut oats
1/4 cup wheat berries
1/8 cup sesame seeds.

The recipe makes 3, 1 1/2 pound loaves. I made two free form and one in a bread pan. None of them rose very high - the bread in the pan was "squatter" than a banana bread type loaf would be and the only way I can think to describe the free form loaves is for anyone that's made biscotti - that's the shape the loaves ended up - about an inch, inch and a half tall and that's about it.

As I keep saying, the taste was great (heavy, but again, I like that) and it's just getting a higher rise that I'm after.

I plan on adding some vital wheat gluten to my next batch as that was suggested. Any other tips from you expert bread makers out there?! Thanks!

Lisa
hawk307
15 years ago
Lisa:
If you send me an email, I'll reply with a simple recipe you can try.
I don't think I will put in any more Recipe's on the CF.

Too much criticism.
Lou
hawk307
15 years ago
Lisa:
I resumed you used a Mixer and let the dough rise, before you Baked iT
Lou.

Bread Problem

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lindac

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Bread Problem

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lindac

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