Quote for Heating and Air Conditioning-Good deal?

14 years ago

Hi All.

Just bought a house and need to replace the furnace (over 20 years old) and air conditioning (doesn't work-compressor probably 30 years old). Also, getting a bathroom fan vented since the motor's dead on it and not vented out anywhere and having ducts run to a back room on the house that is currently electric heat to make it gas heat to match the rest of the house plus a water heater since it's past its half-life. Also, getting insulation since I basically have none.

Here's the quote I received:

One 58MVC060-F-1-14 Carrier, Infinity, ICS Modulating, 60,000 BTU Input, 96 Series, Deluxe Multipoise, Variable Speed, 3 Stage Condensing Gas Furnace

One 25HPA530H003 Carrier Performance, 2.5 Ton, High Efficiency, R410A Puron Freon, 15 SEER Series, Heat Pump, Condensing Unit

One CNPVP3617ATA Carrier, Painted Cased Upflow/Downflow, R410A Puron Freon "N" Coil

One SYSTXCCUID01-B Carrier, Infinity Thermostat Controller

One VCMA15ULS Little Giant Condensate Pump w/ Emergency Shut Off Switch and 3/8" Clear Vinyl Tubing

One R75LSi Rinnai Tankless Water Heater, .82 Energy Factor

One FV11VQL4 Panasonic, 110 CFM, Bathroom Exhaust Fan w/ Light

Includes:

All necessary duct work, plenums and fittings to existing system

All necessary black gas pipe and fittings

All necessary electrical, disconnect and electrical whip

All necessary PVC SDR 40 pipe and fittings for condensate lines and venting

Vent bathroom fan through roof or side wall properly

Removal and disposal of all old equipment

Including all labor and miscellaneous materials

Subsidized Air Sealing

Heat Pump Platform

Install 2-6" flex duct going through crawl opening with brown floor registers

Foam rim joist and wall with 2 parts high density foam

Total Cost: $24100

Carrier Rebate - $500

Air Seal Rebate from Energy Star - $1000

Energy Star Rebate - $10000

2010 Federal Tax Credit - $1500

Energy Star Audit Rebate - $125

Total Cost after All Credits and Rebates $10975

Is this a good deal? It seems really expensive before all the credits and rebates and I'm sure they mark it up a bit with the credits and rebates in mind but bottom line is the amount that has to be paid in the end.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

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Comments (11)

tigerdunes
14 years ago
OMG!

what is your location?

what size home?

what size HVAC are you replacing?

post back.
sup9978
Original Author
14 years ago
OMG Good or OMG bad?

1300 square feet- Beachwood, NJ

Not sure what the size of my current units is. As I said, they're really old. The ID plate on the compressor is completely worn off.
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Thanks for the responses. I have printed a copy of this page just for reference. Thanks especiially for the link tiger. When the time comes it looks like it will be a more modern heat pump unless they start destroying the hydroelectric dams like some of our local environmentalists want. Then I'll be back to find the right one. My stepson just upgraded at a cost that astounded me. I think I'll start now investigating local contractors. I read a lot about doing the heat balance calculations and how only a few are qualified. Was wondering if it would be appropriate to pay to have one done so I wouldn't be tied to that contractor's products? Thanks again. Nerdy
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Mike, thank you so much for your feedback and the rebate link. I will definitely ask about it. I have heard good things about the Carrier Infinity system, but can you tell me what is so special about the controller? I know it has some diagnostic capabilities, but is that the big difference? Tigerdunes, thanks for your input. I know the furnace model I posted isn't an Infinity; it was the first one he quoted me, but in talking later, he said the Infinity only cost $1 more in his price book, so we could upgrade to it if we wanted. I don't have the model number for it, but I'll ask next time I talk to him. Where are you recommending the R8? We are planning on R13 fiberglass batting for the roof rafter bays, because we are limited by the stud depth. We are planning to fur down with 2x2s to gain enough room for the fiberglass. We looked into spray foam, but it's out of our budget. I've always understood that the new hybrid units are a great choice in efficiency and energy savings, even in the South. We don't know how long we will be in this house (we love it, but we've never lived any place more than 4 years, so I have to look at history), so we weren't planning on lots of upgrades. But at this price, we can have it for not much more than the bare bones. I do see what you are saying about the upstairs system versus the downstairs. I will ask about the cost difference to do a 14 seer heat pump up there. Is there any other upgrade you think would be justified for the top story? Neohio, we have propane right now for hot water, range, and wall heaters. We were paying $2.49/gallon, but it will be going to $2.89 for the year starting next month. Natural gas would be $1.23 for the equivalent gallon (it's priced per cubic foot, but she gave me this number for comparison), with a $7-something monthly charge. We pay a base service fee of $22.11 per month for electric, plus $.088/per kilowatt based on usage. Because we don't currently have central heat and air, it's very hard to determine what our utilities will be and what system would be best. Our winters are mild, but we have been pretty cold in the farmhouse unless we close off interior rooms and run the 25,000 btu propane wall heater (serves the living and dining room), a large electric heater (for the kitchen), and a 10,000 btu propane heater for the bedroom. All the other rooms, upstairs and down, are unheated and cold! In the summer, we had three window units in about the same places (main living area, kitchen, and one downstairs bedroom), and could stay comfortable. But upstairs, with no AC and little insulation, was miserable!
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To save money, re-do your duct work and keep the existing AC. You can replace it later. As for Radiant, I did a staple up in my ranch, and placed 1 1/2 inch foil faced foam boards underneath. I did not want to lift the current floors. It works OK, but If I were doing it again and pulling the floors, I would be more apt to a use a system that layers above the sub floor and under the finshed floor. Wirsbo makes a product like that. It has an aluminum backing too. Not sure if you can take the 5/8 to 3/4 hit in the ceiling height, however. In the bathroom, I would definitley use a sandwich layer, I did it in another house and absolutley love it. Floors are nice and warm. I warmed the shower floor and a bench too. Are you using engineered wood or hardwood? As for the crawlspace, is it a poured or dirt floor? Do water piped run through it. Handling the crawlspace is a whole other conversation. You need to do a heat loss study, than determine the pipe size and pump speed to keep the place warm. I just installed a system 2000 gas unit in my 1500sq-ft ranch with 1 radiant zone and one baseboard loop. It cost about 6k Installed (with indirect 40 gallon water heater) My next project will be an addition on a slab, with radiant in the slab.
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carrie what size is existing upstairs HP system? based on the information you have provided and assuming a straight changeout, the price you have been quoted is absurdly high. get more quotes. I see no reason to replace a working system. Deal with that when you have to. Here are my specs for a new HP system. 15 SEER, 12 EER, 9 HSPF full cooling and heating BTUs for your rated size matching var speed air handler scroll compressor preferred electronic defrost preferred R-410a refrigerant staged heat strip backup stat that controls blower speed I can suggest my favorites if you like. IMO
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baldloonie
14 years ago
All new ductwork or just reattach to what you have plus 2 flex runs?
ryanhughes
14 years ago
What's the $10,000 energy star rebate, and what does this apply to? I'm familiar with the federal tax credit, but not the energy star rebate.
sup9978
Original Author
14 years ago
Baldloonie-

I think it's just to run ducts out to back room which is only electric heat. The room is right off the room with the furnace.

Ryanhughes-

The 10,000 rebate is part of the NJ Clean Energy Program. It's a rebate a lot of people aren't familiar with but it's great. It's actually a reimbursement for saving energy for buying new higher energy efficiency products. You can be reimbursed for 50% of the cost of the work up to $10,000 plus have an opportunity to finance the balance at a 0% interest rate for up to 10 years if you reach certain efficiency requirements. There's specifics such as you obviously must meet certain efficiency levels, can only use contractors certified in this program, must have an energy audit done, etc.

Check these 2 sites out:

Explains the efficiency requirements for loan

(This site also shows programs for some other states but I know nothing about those)

www.energyfinancesolutions.com

Explains the steps to get the maximum rebate of 10,000

http://www.njcleanenergy.com/residential/programs/home-performance-energy-star/benefits-and-incentives
bielen
14 years ago
sup9978:

Who is your contractor. I'm also in NJ and looking at the EnergyStar program. I have a bid from another contractor and am trying to determine if my bid is cost effective or not.

I have ducts for AC in the ceiling which are not efficient for heat so that that limits my furnace options.

The quote I have is:

Attic Entry Cover: $250
Exterior Wall Insulation with packed cellulous increasing R-value by 3.2 to 16.5 - $7360

Replace 10 SEER AC with Carrier 24ANA1 2 Stage Scroll 21 SEER AC with matching coil - $8,000

Replace water heater with Navien 98% efficient CR180 heater - $3640

Bathroom Exhaust and Dryer venting: $650

Air Sealing - $1000 (rebated)
Lightbulbs - $350 (rebated)

Total after discounts and rebates is $9,580 less the $1,500 Federal Rebate for total of $8,080.

Anyone have any thoughts? Is 21 SEER really necessary in NJ?
sup9978
Original Author
14 years ago
bielen-

Contractor is BC Express Inc.

http://www.bcexpressinc.net/

I actually requested a quote with the 21 SEER and was told that it wasn't necessary. He told me that the 2.5 ton was perfect for my house (1300 square feet). I also requested a humidifier and he actually told me that he didn't recommend getting one. He said that because of the work they were doing in regards to tightening up the insulation, the humdifier actually brings unnecessary moisture into the home. He said unless you clean it frequently, it can lead to mold and mildew. I don't have any allegeries or health conditions that warrant it anyway. You may want to consider checking the price difference on a 15 or 17 SEER to see how much you can save.
saltcedar
14 years ago
He told me that the 2.5 ton was perfect for my house (1300 square feet).

Well I cool 1330 with 2.5 tons here in Texas. Avg summer
temps here are 95 to 108F. Me thinks that's a bit over-sized for
NJ were I'm thinking you are like 85 to 95 in Summer?
londonlion
14 years ago
Thank you sup9978! I read your quote and I called different people to find out who will do the work of ESR. In NJ very few contractor does Energy Star rebate. BCExpress and Goldmedal services in east Brunswick. Thanks again You are big help.
londonlion
14 years ago
Now the Program for Energy star rebate is reduce to $5000.00 from $10000.00 and that will go away once the fund is all used up.
londonlion
13 years ago
sup9978
How long did it take you to get confirmation from NJ? Are all work done? DO they provide coupon for payments? Please let me know!
Thanks!

Quote for Heating and Air Conditioning-Good deal?

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