You poor thing! I know you've had a lot of problems with those darn stones. Sending my sympathetic thoughts your way, Seeking. Keep the pain killers handy (and maybe a couple bottles of wine, teehee).

OMG you poor baby! The men in DH's family have stones and the pain is supposed to rate up there with childbirth on the pain scale.

TAKE DRUGS! Do not try to tough this out. You won't get a medal if you do...

We will send stone passing vibes your way. Hope you have help with your little ones. They're so dear and comforting but you need to rest now.

Maybe also hope for an opening in your Dr.'s schedule?

Poor you!! My husband went through this once and yes, it was awful. I hope you're taking as many painkillers as you need to survive-- don't be shy about demanding them! And yes, it's a good idea to push to get a quicker surgery appointment, if you can. Did they try putting you in the tub of water and bombarding the stone with ultrasound or whatever they use? In the meantime, maybe you can watch some funny old movies to take the slightest edge off, if that's possible. I'm sorry to be so bossy, but I feel badly for you. I wish you a speedy recovery!

Thanks, guys! I'm taking Vicodin, but I have to limit the amount because I have to take the kids to school and gymnastics etc. Right now, I'm enjoying the Vicodin haze. I tried getting in sooner for surgery but they actually had to move it later (was first thing in the AM, is now 3 PM) and they're basically squeezing me in at that. One of the downsides to living in the boonies--they have to borrow the new equipment (laser) and can't use the old (jackhammer thingie) because it's broken.

sjerin, I can't do the lithotripsy because the stone is too large and too far down the ureter. Also, the "stone mobile," as I call the mobile lithotripsy unit, only comes to town every other Thursday and wasn't coming back until the 21st. That is too far away and also happens to be my anniversary. Dh has reservations for us to stay in the Grand Suite at a cool hotel, with oldest dd watching the little ones. I would rather do that than have my kidneys blasted in the Stone RV :)

As surgeries go, though, what I'm having is not too bad. There's no incision and it's done on an outpatient basis so no stay in the hospital, either. The only bad thing is that I have to have a stent, which I hate. That's a tube that bypasses the ureter so it has a chance to heal, but it's uncomfortable and you have to have it removed after a few weeks, which means another trip back.

Lord, if we were closer we'd pitch in and shuttle the kids. Hope you can take enough meds to get some decent rest at night.

seeking--

major sympathy vibes coming your way!!! *Pass, pass, pass*

and pecan--kidney stones are WORSE than labor pains!! I had my kidney stone 1 week to the day after having my son--he was 8 lb 9.5 oz and posterior (back labor)--so I have a direct comparison. :) I was lucky to pass it with out surgery because the nurse said it was the largest she'd ever seen...

sending passing vibes!!!!

Ya want I should bust your stones? :-)

I hope the time (and STONE) passes quickly for you, lady!

Oh dear - I have also been going through nasty pain and leaning on Vicodin for the past week - so I'm really sympathetic to your plight. Kidney stone pain is worse than shingles, I'm sure! Anyway, I checked with my in-home medical consultant and he said 90% of all stones pass - hoping you fall within that 90%, even if the stone is large. Also, did they give you Toradol? I understand that really helps with the ureteral spasm. Where the heck do you live?

Oh, thanks honeyb2! I will call the doctor tomorrow about Toradol. I was just telling my husband that I couldn't figure out why the doctor didn't prescribe some kind of anti-spasmodic, but I didn't know whether that would help or not. Seems like it since most of the pain is from the renal colic. So sorry about your shingles! I know that must be horribly unpleasant as well. I hope it is better soon!!

I don't think this stone will pass, as I've passed some very large stones before--the largest I passed was 13mm (just under 1/2"). The ureter is about the size of a spaghetti noodle, so you can figure where the pain comes in on something like that :) Anyway, the doctor seemed dubious about it passing since this stone is larger. Also, I had just had my twins 2 days earlier when that large stone passed, and the ureters are actually wider during/shortly after pregnancy because of hormones (progesterone, I think). Pregnancy kicks my stone formation into high gear, but I don't have that to worry about anymore :) Most of my stones do pass, but every now and then I make one too large to fit. Normally I have an annual lithotripsy now as a preemptive measure, but I was 6 months overdue on it (kept putting it off) and now I'm paying the price, sigh. I live in a reasonably good-sized town in N CA but we're about 2 hours from the nearest city of size and our medical facilities are woefully limited here.

Right now I'm trying to keep my body's pH up as I recently was told by a homeopathic doc that that is the reason why I make stones. Her remedy was to drink this noxious cocktail of lemon juice, vinegar, and cider. It does work, though--my pH came way up after I started drinking it, but I just can't stomach it. I asked my GP if there was a pill version and he prescribed potassium citrate to take instead of the cocktail. I hope it works! Once this stone is gone, I will be able to determine whether or not it is effective (it doesn't dissolve stones that are already formed, it just prevents new ones). I think it would be wild if that cures it, since I've been going through this for 24 years and stopped counting the stones at 300 or something like that. I've been to top specialists, including the supposed top nephrologist/stone expert in San Francisco.

Yikes - 13mm? 300 stones? You probably qualify for the Guiness Book of World Records! I have heard that the potassium citrate is useful, so I really hope it works for you. In the meantime, I will certainly be sending you lots of good vibes. Let us know how you're doing.

seekingadvice,
I am glad you are going to a Homeopathic Doctor. I don't know much about kidney stones but something must be causing them to form. You said the Doctor was trying to get your PH up? I'm really into PH balancing myself. My body usually runs very acidic which is not good. At Whole Foods Market they have a book on PH along with litmus paper you can purchase and you can test your urine or saliva. That would be something good to do when you are feeling better.
The body has a neutral PH at 7. Most Americans run acidic due to our diets. It's good to at least know what foods are acidic and alkaline. I have a book called "The Acid-Alkaline Diet by Chritopher Vasey, N.D. It is very interesting reading.
I'm sorry for your pain and I hope you are feeling better soon. Keep us posted.
Donna

I don't know if this will help but my brother has kidney stones for years, in and out of the hospital, many surgeries, it was like living with a time bomb that he never knew when would go off. He finally demanded that his doctor try and find out why this was happening instead of just treating him when the stone happened.

He was sent to an endocrinologist and with in days found out he had a node on his thyroid gland. I can't remember all the details, he had a very minor surgery to remove the node and the kidney stones stopped. It has been over 10 years and no stones. He is like a new person. I remember everyone in our family went and had a TSH test because the doctor said it was something that could run in family's and it did show something for one of my cousins who also had kidney stones but not as often as my brother.

Sorry I cant remember all the details but if you haven't been to an endocrinologist I would look into it. Hope you taking all the drugs for the pain and your doctor can get you in sooner. I know what its like to have someone you love in that kind of pain and its really hard when you can't do anything to make it stop.

Seeking,

So sorry you're going through all this now . . . bad at any time, but the holidays, and with your little ones !! Almost too much to have to deal with !!!!
Will most definitely send good vibes your way !!! Many good wishes and thoughts for a speedy end to all of this !!

On the subject of PH . . . and stones . . .
to relate a story, and it has to do with our rather large dog . . . She is very prone to stones . . . so her vet has her on a special diet to keep her PH in balance . . .
(Sometimes I honestly think we'd all be better off going to vets !!! Our pets get way more doc time than we do through our HMO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Anyway . . . I'm sure that the same thing applies to humans with the PH and all .
Certainly worth looking into !!!

Many good thoughts going your way, Seeking . . .

Chris

(is it gone yet?)

Thinking of you, SA.

Dear SeekingAdvice - I'm praying for your speedy recovery. Good luck with this one stone going away and leaving your body soon and all future healthful medicines, traditional or natural which help you deal with this condition.
Rachel

Dear Seeking I will light a white light candle and keep you in my thoughts. I gave birth to a 12 pound baby ( all natural) and I know they say it hurts worse than that so I totally feel for you. I shall also pass on a sage bit of famliy advice. * If you have to pee, get out of the tree*

You see my BIL was out hunting and was up in his dear blind and it was cold and he did not want to get down but nature was calling in a big way. SO... he went to take a leak off the side of the dear stand that was 20+ feet up in the tree when at that VERY moment he started to pass a stone. He fainted from the pain and fell out of the tree breaking his shoulder, his arm, a few ribs and STILL not passing the stone.

So there you go... stay out of any trees!

Much love and light to you!
Maddie

Any relief for you yet, Seeking? We're all hoping so!!

Hope that darn thing is gone by now! We all feel your pain.

My 2 cents worth is to ask if these are calcium stones. If they are, have they checked your parathyroid? Once they took out 3 of my 4 parathyroids, no more stones. Mine were never that big, but give me a breech delivery any day:-)

Also thinking of you, seeking...hope you have good support so you have no worries about the little ones and can focus on *you* for a while.

Thanks so much, you guys! It feels so good to read all your well wishes for me.

I had my surgery yesterday and it went just fine. I'd been having so much pain that I was more than ready. The stone was pretty large--it broke into 4 stones, each of which would normally require surgical removal. Glad it's gone!! My dh asked if he could take the stone pieces to work :) I guess it's good to have something to show off about, although I do wish I could create something a little more useful and a little less painful.

pecan, that was very sweet to think about shuttling the kids for me! That was actually the hardest thing to do pre-op.

namabafo, so glad your stone passed on its own. I was told by a nephrologist that pregnancy often leads to kidney stones in those who are prone, so if you're looking at further pgs, watch out! I hope that was your only experience, though (with stones)!!

bill, I just wish you could bust my stones! Plus it might turn into a lucrative little side venture for you :) Bill "The Stone Man" Vincent!

Donna, thanks for the information about pH. I have also looked into it (ever the researcher--just give me a topic and away I go, which is how I ended up TKO). The cocktail I am supposed to drink is lemon juice (fresh), cider vinegar, and apple cider, 2 oz of each. While this is a rather nasty little martini, it does work! I used the test strips and found that initially my pH was in the basement, but after drinking the above once a day, it came up into neutral/normal range. I am hoping that if I continue this regimen, I will not form stones anymore. The homeopathic doc told me that the stones are my body's way of trying to get rid of the excess acid. Sounds sensible but we'll see. The problem is that I have so many foods and drinks on my no-no list between migraines and stones and adrenal fatigue that the only thing I know is ok is water :)

not2old, thanks so much for your information! I have been checked many times for thyroid/parathyroid problems but I always check out fine. My official diagnosis is "idiopathic nephrolithiasis" which just means stones for unknown reasons. However, I am going to take your suggestion and see an endocrinologist anyway. The homeopathic doctor I mentioned above had me run some saliva tests which showed some things very much out of whack but not what was expected, so I would like to see an endo and look into it further. The homeopath is not near me--she lives in Hawaii and is the friend/associate of a friend of mine, so I have not actually seen her in person. She just ordered the tests for me and my friend, who is a compounding pharmacist but is on the homeopathic side herself, set me up with this doctor. She (the doctor) specializes in women's health, but I think it's interesting that she may be the one who comes up with an approach that works in preventing my stones.

Chris, I hear ya on seeing a vet!! I totally agree that they sometimes see what the specialists miss. Interesting that your dog has the same problem I have! So tell me, how do you treat your dog? Is it just through diet? Thanks for your good vibes, too!

Pauline, yes! Gone! Yippee!! And, to go OT, could you give me your baklava recipe again, pleeeeeeeease? I remember you used cardamom and toasted the almonds first, right? I'm hankering for some baklava and am set to make it tomorrow! It's, er, not exactly on my ok list but hey, it's not like I'm going to make a stone tomorrow, right?!

Rachel, that was very sweet!! What a lovely thing to say. I do appreciate your prayers very much.

Maddie, OMG, I am so sorry for your BIL but I could NOT stop laughing at that story!!! If ever I am tempted to pee in a tree, I will remember your warning and refrain :) I hope he got rid of the stone eventually? Thanks for cheering me up!

sjerin, yes! I can't even believe how great I feel today. Yahoo! Thanks for checking on me!!

Honeyb2, it's funny how you sort of grow used to pain. You know it's there, but it's sort of a background thing that will rear up and kick you around but a lot of times is just something you live with. I had forgotten how it felt not to have it lurking there, and I must say it feels great! I SO hope your shingles will soon be the same--a memory!

proudmama, thank you so much for thinking of me. REally, all of these thoughts and wishes helped me immeasurably!

Cheri

Oops! I forgot a couple of people.

Tuscanlover, the stones are calcium oxalate. I make a few other kinds but they're all basically calcium stones. They've checked and rechecked my parathyroid but nothing is ever found to be wrong. I'm glad you found an answer, though! I never had a breech birth, but regular, med-free labor was a cake walk to me compared to kidney stone pain. My very first experience with stones was when I was 5 1/2 months pg, age 26. It was sudden. I was vacuuming and suddenly just dropped to the floor in the worst agony I could imagine. I eventually crawled to the phone and called my OB as I thought I was losing the baby. The receptionist, if you can believe it, told me I had the flu and I'd have to "live with it" and then hung up on me! I could barely speak! So I called my dad and all I could say was "Dad" and he came right over and took me to the hospital. I had a huge stone on EACH side, so I was looking at kidney failure soon. I had surgery right away. The baby was just fine but my marriage wasn't. My husband (now ex) never even came to see me in the week I was in the hospital (didn't like hospitals, he said). BTW, the receptionist was fired and my OB was an obsequious presense every day. I think he was afraid I'd sue him. Anyway, I've been having stones ever since. 2 pgs since then (present, wonderful dh), both full of stones and both with surgeries for it, sigh.

flyleft, thank you for checking on me! I'm feeling great but I think I'll play that down just a bit. I like that people have lower expectations of me right now :)

Glad the worst is over for you. I'll keep my fingers crossed that those were the last ones ever.

I do see a trend however. dh #1 was annoyed when he had to come home and take me to the hospital a week after the first stones. He assured me it was too soon to have another. Notice I said #1 ;-). #2 would be there all the way.

Rest up for the baklava tomorrow.

donnav

SA, glad to hear that miserable stone is gone, whoo!

Here's my recipe for baklava (measurements are approx);

Mix 3 cups sugar, 1 3/4 cups water, 1 cup honey, lemon & orange peel & a cinnamon stick in a saucepan. Bring to boil, lower heat & simmer for 20 minutes. Remove from heat & let cool in fridge.

Lightly toast approx. 3 1/2 cups chopped walnuts, let cool
Mix 2T cinnamon, 1T sugar & a pinch of cardomon, add walnuts - set aside

Melt 2 sticks butter over low heat.

Defrost phyllo in fridge and then let sit out on counter for a couple of hours.

Layer phyllo dough, brushing each layer with butter. After about 5-6 layers, I add 1/2 the walnut mixture, then continue with another 4-5 layers of phyllo/butter, the remainder of the walnuts and then 7-8 more layers of phyllo/butter. I use a 1/2 sheet pan.

Score the pastry diagonally, then diagonally again (into diamonds), brush with more butter & then bake at 350 degrees for about 50 minutes-1 hour or until golden to medium brown.

Pour cold syrup over hot pastry and let cool. I prefer to store my baklava in the fridge, but you can leave it out as well.

Glad for you that it's over, enjoy the holidays now but don't overdo it !!

Glad "everything came out OK!"

Now the little princesses have the Queen Bee back!

Ah, I know you'll hit the ground running, but knock back early and enjoy a little down time while you can!

seeking - I've been away for a few days and am so glad to come back and hear your surgery was successful and you are recovering. Take it a little easy, ok? And drink your lemon juice and vinegar cocktail!

So glad to hear you are feeling much better and can enjoy Christmas, or whatever you may celebrate!