Looking for a New A/C system

markman_2009

15 years ago

I live in central Florida. I have had two companies provide quotes and think I'm now thoroughly confused at what I need.

I care about clean air, I need more air as both companies think my condenser is undersized ( needs to be 3.5 ton) and the air handler was sized at 3.5 tons and I need more returns in a couple of the rooms. I thought one of the companies said the load calc was at 31,something lets say ~32,000 btu.

both quoted the top-of-the-line of course, but i don't think i need all of it. I'd like to purchase a good performing medium system..

I think my current system is either a 10 or 11 seer and the highest bill over the last two years was $160 for 1344 KWH. Of course in the summer we are not completely satisfied with the temp in the house. The quotes are for a High end Trane and Likewise for the Carrier.

what price range should I be paying?... I'll provide the quotes info if anyone cares to have a look..

thanks in advance! ;)

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Comments (7)

markman_2009
Original Author
15 years ago
ok.here are the quotes:

trane xl20i 4 Ton 4twzoo48a1000a 4tee3c07a1000a
aux heater tcont900ac43ua
clean effects tfd260alah000a
new drain and refrig lines
trane digital thermostat
10yr parts 2y labor
$9880.00 including fpl rebate
less $1000 trane rebate brings to $8880.00

carrier Infinity 19,2 stage 4 ton
25HNA948a003 air handler FE4anf006
Merv 10 media filter
new lines
10y parts 10year labor
infinity thermostat
$10,928
less $1200 carrier rebate and 780 fpl rebate
brings the system to $8948
veesubotee
15 years ago
You need to look for another contractor. The fact that your air handler is 'upsized' compared to your condenser, is not in itself a problem.

You need to have a proper heat calculation done. Did they show you a printed copy? What did they say regarding your LATENT heat gain (read, humidity)? This is your problem.

Judging by your electric bill, you don't seem to have a very high cooling demand, so throwing more tonnage at the problem could make your situation worse, by shortening the time your a/c runs, thus making your house muggy.

New returns are often a good idea, but should be part of a total duct system evaluation. It's quite possible that your current system (handling what? 2, 2 1/2 tons) will be undersized for 4 tons which will take its toll on your system and be noisy.

V
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GSI Store, He is in Maryland and looking for installation ballpark pricing. I'm in Montgomery County, so I'm sure the prices differ a bit, but for a complete installation INCLUDING new ductwork, you could very well be looking into the $10-$14k range. The ductwork replacement adds to the cost. Without the ductwork, I could imagine $7-10k depending on which system you went with. I recommend a Carrier heat pump with a variable-speed air handler. Trane would be fine as well, but you have to be careful with the ratings on some of their heat pumps (heating performance, SEER, etc.). It's best to get a few quotes to compare. Tell them on the phone that you are looking for a company to perform a full Manual J load calculation to determine equipment sizing. Oversized equipment is NOT efficient nor does it tend to have a long lifespan or remove humidity. Good luck. Oh, and just for an idea, I got a quote of, if I recall correctly, $7755 for a Trane 4-ton XL15i with variable-speed air handler and $8585 for a Bryant Evolution system with matching air handler and control (this is basically the top-of-the-line system on the market today--essentially same thing as Carrier's Infinity). Those were the prices without the rebates, and they did not include ductwork. This company is very reputable but does not service Annapolis.
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Comfort-R is a feature of Trane's variable speed furnaces and air handlers that provides a slow ramp-up of the blower in the cooling mode. This gets the indoor coil colder quicker, thereby enhancing dehumdification. It will run at 50% speed for the first minute, then 80% for the next 7.5 minutes, and finally 100% when and if needed. This needs to be turned on by the installers, and they also need to set the dipswitches on the control board appropriately for whichever size A/C gets installed (this should be common knowledge but unfortunately not all installers touch the factory default settings). Can you post all the model numbers of the system you have been provided with (or should have been provided with)? Furnace, air conditioner, and evaporator coil (should be a Trane coil). I'm not opposed to the smaller operations. Sometimes they do the better work. So yes, there are other factors upon which you can evaluate the smaller companies beyond size alone -- the same way you would evaluate the other companies. Including factory and in-house training commitment, are they factory authorized for the products they sell, referrals/reviews, how long they've been in operation, do they do heat load/loss calculations, are they knowledgeable in duct design -- to name a few things. I'm not familiar with the SCE program to know what it entails, besides the load calculation you mentioned, which is very important. This post was edited by ryanhughes on Fri, Aug 30, 13 at 9:36
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Thanks guys, no mention of a line change, and this should be required, particularly going from an R-22 to a Puron system. The garage that contains the system is finished, the outside unit being on the side of the garage, and the air handler unit inside of the garage, so the line change is probably pricey. What do you guys do under these circumstances? No mention of that. The quote does include a new thermostat. The unit does offer a 10 year warranty, plus a $600 warranty for labor is optional. Oh and the quote for the 16 SEER unit quotes a rebate, however I could not find it on the Goodman site.
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markman_2009
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for the response.

One of the guys that came out supposedly did a heat calculation, but I only saw the bottom line number he gave which I may have gotten incorrect. I didn't see the humidity calculation.

I will have another contractor out as you say. should I really be looking for the most efficient system like they're quoting me?..
ryanhughes
15 years ago
Be aware that 32,000 btu's still falls short of 36,000 btu's, which is a 3 ton. With the sensible load requirement and adjustment for SHR, could very well be needing more than 3 tons (the load calc figure of 32k doesn't tell everything, that is), so I'm not saying 4 tons is wrong. The 4 ton would likely be okay since it would run at around 2 tons on low stage, and in Florida, you need A/C! I really agree that you need to have the load calc figures in writing. And you do need your ductwork to be thoroughly looked at. More returns are often a great improvement to a system and overall comfort, but not always enough.
markman_2009
Original Author
15 years ago
got ya! again, thank you for the response.

I will have another one out and ask to see the load calc in writing this time.

Regarding the Air Cleaning system, are there systems that are more effective?..carrier's, trane's , lennox's...etc. should I be looking for UV systems?..
udarrell_2007
15 years ago
Some 3-ton systems are only rated at a nominal 34,0000-BTUH.
Orlando is rated around 45% relative humidity @ 93-dry bulb While Tampa is around 55% @ 91-dry bulb

A big factor will be the air infiltration rate of your home.

If ductwork & Returns are not large enough for 4-ton, then either do the duct system retro work or reduce heat-gain to a 3 or 3.5-ton system.

You need adequately long runtimes to handle the latent (humidity) load.

Here is a link that might be useful: Equipment & Duct System Sizing
acarjim
15 years ago
I have a quote price less than $7,000.00 for a rheem RPQL048 with a RHLL 4824,RCSL4824 with a 15 SEER ,13.00 EER and 9.0 HSPF . Question is , is a lennox with equal ratings a better buy or for equal money, a good buy.

Looking for a New A/C system

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