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queens 22, apparently you haven't read the forum rules about advertising here. You might want to give it a lookover. Macgyvers2000, yes you can use rigic copper, but it has to be dehydrated ACR. Thats about where the similarity ends. If you've never done refrigeration piping before I suggest you have it done by someone experienced. If strict practices are not followed you've condemned you air conditioning system to a pretty quick death.

Queens22. Notty - Notty. Read the forum rules. NO ADVERTIZING. You could be banned. Macgyvers. Yes the piping can be replaced but NOT water pipe. Sweating pipes as in water, NO. You use silfoss or silver solder. Yes the pressure is high. A high side line could get to 350 lbs. or more. You don't just rip out piping and replace it if you have no idea of what your doing. Now there is recovery and evacuation and recharge plus pipe sizing. The piping better not be confined inside the wall. If the suction
line leaks through the armaflex the water will rot out the
inside wall. Call someone in. This is not a D.I.Y. project.
Can you braze a pipe together inside a wall without setting fire to the wood ? Do you have nitrogen to purge the line as you weld ? Do you have line driers and filters to catch anything remaining in the line ? You might want to think about calling someone in. Good luck. Hope it goes
O.K. for you.

Hey Greg, just think buddy, only 3 more weeks till Spring! So why ain't ya smiling?!!!:-)

As long as you don't kink what is there you might be able push the pipe enough to get it inside what ever freming you are doing otherwise to repipe as stated you will have to evacuate the system and repipe using rigid dehydrated copper the welding will be unfamiliar to you and the new pipe will have to be vacuumed and recharged with refrigerant it is more involved than repiping water and doing it wrong has a much higher price tag

Hi havac. Just heard the weather this morning and it is still 32 below with 44 below wind chill. I ain't smiling.
We are supposes to have a heat wave monday. 0. I'll believe
that when i see it. Around here it is usually 3 more months
until summer and i wouldn't want to miss that wonderful day. I think summer was on a sunday last year and i had a
hang over and slept through it. I still have 3 cords of wood left so i'm good for awhile. Nice to hear from you.
Keep in touch.

Thanks for the replies, guys... queens22, posting ads like that is poor form in almost any online forum. That, and the fact that I'm a couple hundred miles away from Queens pretty much prevents me from bringing you in. Always know your client before pushing your services.

Guys, I realize I would need to have someone pull the freon before starting any work, then refill after it's done. I'm reasonably adept with a torch and have sweated quite a few joints over the years, so the actual piping itself wouldn't present much of a challenge. Silver solder isn't a problem, either.

mr.h, I'm not familiar with ACR piping... can you elaborate on what makes it different than standard copper piping?

kal, the piping must be inside the wall at some point on just about any abode, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. It's not inside of a brick wall, if that's what you mean, it will just be hiding behind drywalled framework. I imagine if a pipe leaks, it won't matter whether I installed it or someone else, the wall is going to get wet.

Some of the other things you mention, though, make me wonder what differences there might be between brazing water pipe and this stuff. Why is a Nitrogen purge necessary during brazing? Wouldn't that be done after the piping is finished?

On a side note, it was a high of 45 here today, and I've been out of wood for a couple of weeks. Looks like one cord wasn't enough, next time I'll go with 1.5, that should be enough (though my back is REALLY gonna hate me).

Macgyvers, ACR copper is clean, dry and capped. There are no impurities inside of the pipe. Just look down a length of it and a length of pipe used for regular plumbing. Good piping practice dictates that you leave the ends capped while you are installing it and when you are "brazing" the pipe you should have dry nitrogen with only about 2 or 3 pounds of pressure flowing through the pipe. That means special tools, regulators etc. to do it right. You know that black stuff you get on the outside of pipe when you solder? Well you get it on the inside of the pipe too when you braze, and the inside of a refrigeration system just does not like that stuff flowing along with the nice clean, pure freon. Incidentally, the difference between soldering and brazing is about a thousand degrees. Whereas some solders flow at 3 to 4 hundred degrees sil-fos flows at around 12 or 14 hundred degrees, (correct me if thats off guys)depending on the percentage of silver in the stick. Brazing is the strongest joint you can make with copper, the drawback is you tend to leave tiny pinholes in the joints. Even someone who has brazed miles of pipe and hundreds of joints will occasionally end up with a pinhole leak. It could be a tricky joint to braze, close to flammable surfaces, over confidence, not enough heat, or a number of reasons, but it happens. Now, you have intentions of doing these lines up yourself then have someone come in and pressurize, leak check and charge the system. If you're not holding pressure and you have to look for that pinhole that could be time consuming. And all the while this guy is gonna be standing there watching (AND BILLING) you because fixing leaks wasn't part of the deal. But you're paying for his time. Looking and fixing a couple of leaks can cost you some pretty decent but wasted cash. But on the other hand if you pay this guy to do the work you should be able to agree on a price before he even starts. Now if the guy has leaks and it takes him all night to find and fix then, what the hell do you care? He's dipping into his own pocket now not yours. Bottom line, if refrigeration piping isn't done right I and every other knowledgeable tech in this forum will guarantee you that you will definately shorten the life of your system. Just my opinion.

If you are using a propane torch even with a twister tip
that ain't going to cut it. Well actually it will work but
there has to be almost no wind and you heat up so much pipe
and the braze joint could come in " cold " Map gas will work but not recommended. That is a carbonizing flame. a "B" tank with a twister tip is the ticket. Oxy-acetylene
is the way to go, if you have one. The heat is instant and
very localized. When i come across a customer install job
i usually double my price. That takes care of suprizes. I usually find a few. No offence but if you don't know that
there is a difference between water pipe and refrigeration
pipe think about calling in someone. Actually it think there are at least 4 different grades of copper pipe. Then
there is copper tubing. Another story. Can you run your piping outside the wall and box it in ?

I used a 20' section of ACR suction line across the ceiling of my garage when I installed the A/C in my house last year - I paid a pro a few bucks to do the soldering and charge the system

So far as I can see, ACR pipe is exactly like water pipe (inner and outer dimensions, etc) . . . . except it's been cleaned and capped, which increases it's cost by 2.5X

Don

Exactly don21, I believe its the same rating as K tubing which has the thickest wall. There are a few more steps to the finished product though and like you said, the cost is quite steep. I haven't even priced any ACR since these copper prices have gone outta sight. Anybody know what a lenght of 7/8's is going for these days?

Okay, I've learned what ACR piping is and high heat in a nitrogen atmosphere is what's required... it's been a useful exercise.

I'm comfortable working with MAPP... but I'm going to leave this one to someone who has the tools and experience ;-) Still nice to know what's involved.

Thanks guys!

macgyvers2000. Very proud of you. We are all very proud of
you. Good choice bringing in the pros. I wished everyone on this and other sites had the good sense you have. If you need info in the future please feel free to ask. I myself will be very happy to help if i can. I can't promise
the world but i might be able to shed some light. I hope everything goes O.K. for you