Edit: got some answers so please disregard.

Sorry, the information I received earlier was incorrect.

Question: how much more should an XV95 cost vs. an XR95 in 5 ton size? This is just for the furnace and not part of a furnace/ac package. I was told around $800 but this seems extreme.

what is the difference in the equipment? just the variable speed fan I'm assuming? Variable speed fans do cost considerably more than the multi-speed counterpart. Not sure about $800 more though.

The XR95 is a single stage 95% AFUE, single speed furnace while the XV95 is a variable speed 2 stage 96.7% AFUE. My dealer actually told me the furnace to be installed was a 3 stage VS XV95 but I don't see that listed on the Trane website. Perhaps it's a new product not yet on the site..? $800 seemed like a lot but I don't know so I thought I'd ask those that know.

Thanks for the help.

I would say $800 is about right. keep in mind that is the cost difference to the homeowner, certainly less to the dealer. tell dealer you will take a correctly sized XV95 for dealer's cost difference plus 10% of the cost difference. all he can say is yes or no.

BTW, post mdl of the XV95 being considered.

IMO

Tigerdunes-
First off I want to thank you again for your help with all my questions. You were right all along when you said to get the 2-stage furnace with VS blower. At 5:30pm on 12/31 at contract signing time I let $$ dictate which furnace I got and went with the XR95 100k btu. By a stroke of luck the supplier shipped the wrong furnace (120k btu) which was installed. You may recall that I was initially happy since it was so much better than what I had before but then the furnace was short cycling, etc. which I understand is common with oversized equipment. And then there was the heat from the vents�it was uncomfortably hot. When I couldn�t figure out why the house heated so damned fast I went looking at model numbers in the attic and discovered the error.

Since the dealer has to replace the furnace anyway it offered me the option of upgrading to the XV95. This didn�t require much thought.

I don�t have the model number but I�m told this is a brand new model not yet on the website. I�m told it�s a 3 stage XV95 with max 100k btu. This is NOT the TUH2D120 or the TDH2C100. I will follow up with the model number asap.

As for pricing, I have no leverage. They can get the 100k btu XR easily but are offering me the opportunity to make the change. This dealer has been so good and responsive I don't really care if I pay a little too much for the XV. I just wanted to make sure it was a fair price and it sounds like it is.

Please bear with me. Just to be clear, if I have the Trane 4TTR3060D1000AA (XR13 5 ton) I absolutely need a 5 ton furnace for more powerful blower...correct?

The incorrect XR95 that was installed will be replaced by an XV95 and I just want to make sure that given my climate in socal I get the lowest BTU XV95 that will match up with the A/C condenser. My dealer told me there is a new 3 stage Trane model with max 100k BTU not yet listed on there website (I don't have the model number yet). They suggested this model but I want to verify that I couldn't go with the TUH2B060A9V3VA or the TUH2B080A9V3VA.

The system was designed with the emphasis on cooling so it may be that I just have to settle on an oversized furnace and make the best of the situation.

Thanks again for the help.

rmrc

first off, you are in a tough spot and I have to say that your Trane dealer has not advised you or served you well.

two issues come to mind.

1.you must have a blower that is rated 5 ton for a 5 ton AC condenser. you can't get around that fact.

2.system should be an AHRI Directory match.

This is where Trane gets down in the weeds. I am going to assume that cooling is more important than heating. Because you need a furnace with a 5 ton rated blower, Trane forces you to be oversized in heating BTUs by having to get a larger than necessary furnace especially true in the higher efficient models. Trane has poor flexibility on their blower rating compared to other furnaces/brands like Carrier/Bryant.

Is there an answer to your situation? yes and really not a bad one although you may not think so.

I checked the AHRI AC Directory and there are actually 14 matches with the 5 ton XR13 condenser and 4TXCD061 evap coil. of course,most are not suitable,a few are.

4180294 Active Systems XR13 TRANE 4TTR3060D1 4TXCD061BC3 *UD2C100A9V5 56500 10.50 13.25

4131746 Active Systems XR13 TRANE 4TTR3060D1 4TXCD061BC3 *UD2C080B9V4 57500 11.00 13.25

These are the XV80 furnace-yes 80% eff but because of the way they are sized, you will not be losing a thing as far as operational cost. Yes, you will need a two stg thermostat.

Both these configurations need to be verified with your dealer as far as 5 ton blower rating.

If this is not a satisfactory solution, you will most likely have to change evap coil or start all over either with Trane or another dealer/brand.

IMO

Tigerdunes-
I can�t thank you enough for all the help and expertise. It is really frustrating that I received two Rheem quotes and three Trane quotes (all Trane Comfort Specialists found on the Trane website) and EVERY single dealer recommended a 5 ton A/C for my 2-story home. I fully realize that the TUD2C080B9V4 would be more than enough heat for my home BUT then I would lose my tax credit. I think I would need the XR15 or XL15 to qualify for the credit with the TUD2C080B9V4. Is this correct?

As far as starting over, it�s just a non starter. Bringing in a new condenser, coil, and furnace would be comparable to flushing thousands down the toilet unless the dealer would take all the equipment back and start over. Highly unlikely and at this point I think we�re too far down the road to even inquire about that direction. The dealer is being terrific with respect to correcting their error of installing the incorrect XR.

I�ll admit with hindsight being 20/20 I am very disappointed with the advice I received from every single Rheem and Trane dealer that gave an estimate. I think they all came up with a similar system that would qualify me for the tax credit without much consideration for what would truly have been best for the house. This certainly won't be my last house so I�ll chalk it up as a learning experience and still enjoy the vastly improved comfort in my home compared to the previous system; even if it�s not as good as it could have been given more time to research and make my decision.

tigerdunes- I plan on the HW IAQ to take full advantage of staging, humidity control, and the VS blower.

If you lived in southern ca and had the XR13 and 4TXCD061 evap coil what would you do? Go with the XV95 and get the tax credit while realizing high fire would rarely if ever be used or go with the UD2C080B9V4? Any idea what the cost difference is between the XV95 and UD2C080B9V4? If enough of a discount it may be worth turning my head at the tax credit.

rmrc

I have little confidence in your Trane dealer.

However, if you want the tax credit, then ask dealer this question in exactly this fashion.

what is the smallest XV95 furnace that would allow me to run a 5 ton XR13? and with what model evap coil?(that coil you have is not a match for XV95/XR13 condenser). and provide AHRI matching number.

as far as the XV80-price difference between $400-$650. this would be a guesstimate only, furnace only.prices can vary between markets and areas of country.

don't allow Trane dealer to make a bad situation worse.

IMO

Well if the evap coil currently installed is not a match for the XV95/XR13 pairing then they will also have to change out the coil. This would be an opportunity to look into other furnace manufacturers that offer a VS blower in 5 ton but at lower BTU outputs.

Here's the update from the dealer: The furnace to be installed is a brand new XV95 model not yet in production. It would make sense the model number for the 5 ton will be TUH2D100A9V5VA. Production is scheduled to start 7-Feb with shipment of my pre-ordered unit set for 11-Feb. This is a 2-stage furnace with nominal outputs of 61,800 and 95,000. While still more furnace than I need this is the lowest output 5 ton XV95. It should be a dramtic improvement compared to what was originally contracted for and a huge improvement over the old single stage 115k furnace that came out. We will use the HW IAQ t-stat.

Hopefully all the info I've been given is accurate. Thanks again for all the guidance.

rmrc

sounds good. looks like the 100K XV95 except with 5 ton rated blower. of course, you will never use the 2nd stg but you know this already.

did dealer provide you an AHRI Directory number?

and what did he say about the coil?

IMO

I do not have an AHRI directory number yet but rest assured I will get one for reference back here BEFORE they install the new furnace. The tech I spoke to said the coil is a match for the new furnace.

I know the furnace will rarely, if ever, run on the second stage but it's the best we can do. Now I can't wait to get the 120k out of the attic. It's amazing the output from that furnace. I suppose it would be perfect for a 4000 sq ft home in Fairbanks, AK.

rmrc

I am a "show me" kind of a fellow.

I don't believe that coil is a match.

Sorry. will leave you alone.

IMO

tigerdunes- thank you again and I appreciate all your comments. Like I said before, they will not install the new furnace until they can prove the coil is a match and I will verify it here with you if you are willing. I'll ask for the AHRI number when they call to schedule the install. Do not leave me alone as your comments give me just enough knowledge to make sure everything is done right going forward.

Thank you again!

rmrc

by leaving you alone, I should have said I did not want to bug or pester you.

And I can't recall.

What are your plans with a whole house air filter cabinet for IAQ(indoor air quality) and to protect evap coil and VS blower?

IMO

Thanks td. I passed on a whole house IAQ cabinet. We have no allergies and I just couldn't justify the expense. Our filtration is basic: A 36x14 return downstairs and a 25x14 return upstairs, each with a MERV 8 pleated filter that will be replaced monthly. I'm considering the deeper pleated HW FC40 for the downstairs return but unfortunately HW doesn't make a 36x14 FC40. I�m open to suggestions on the best return air filters however.

Out of curiosity and just for my understanding, why don�t you think the 4TXCD061 evap coil will be a match for the new XV95? Do the XV95 and XR95 call for a different coil when paired with the XR13? I thought the coil had more to do with the A/C condenser than the furnace but, again, I�m just trying to educate myself.

Will the HERS rater have to come back out for a re-test if the coil is a match for the new furnace and doesn't have to be replaced? What if the coil has to be replaced?

I've checked with two different Trane dealers and both told me that according to the Trane "dealer website" there is no information about a new 5-ton 65k/100k XV95 or any indication that one is being manufactured now or will be.

According to my dealer this phantom furnace is "on order" for me but it now appears my dealer is lying or stalling for time, for some reason. They have a contractual obligation to remove the 120k XR95 they installed and replace it but now they have gone silent and aren't responding to my emails. The last conversation was less than pleasant when I told them that because it was their error I had no intention of paying for another HERS refrigerant charge test.

Does anyone have any information on this XV95 that is "supposedly" being made. Maybe someone reading is a dealer and can verify? I think they're peeing in my hand and calling it lemonade and I'm about to call them out on it.

Thanks for the help.

rmrc

I thought this story about a new production mdl XV95 100K with 5 ton rated blower had the smell of week old fish.

for your sake, I hope I am mistaken.

IMO

TD- you won't believe it but they called today and the furnace is in. I also verified that this furnace really does exist with the Trane District rep. I had my doubts as well but IT LIVES and will be installed tomorrow. I will be there to verify furnace and evap coil numbers for AHRI cross check. This is 61,800 btuh on the first stage and 95k btuh on the second high fire stage, 5 ton blower.

This contractor has had the worst communication I've ever experienced. A good business school case study on how poor communication and service lead to unhappy customers and lost referrals.

tigerdunes-

Can you please check to see if these are matching?

Furnace: TUH2C100A9V5VA
Coil: 4TXCD061

This furnace is a brand new model so I'm hoping it will be in the AHRI directory. It's possible it's not though.

Thanks much!

There is no combination rating for these three units together, but that coil is still a match with the XR13 (4TTR3060A1). AHRI ref. number is 1184895. So I see no issues with your set up. The coil and the condenser are the only components that have to "match" - provided the furnace is configured to provide the correct amount of CFM. Being a 5 ton drive in the furnace, should be factory set to support 5 ton.

Thanks very much Ryan.

In a weird twist of fate the installation error allowed me to fix my wrong and go with the better 2-stage VS furnace. Everything is installed now and combined with the IAQ I can't imagine why anyone would go with a single stage furnace. Yeah it's more expensive but in my view it's a small price to pay for such added comfort and reduced noise. I think the new combination achieves 14 SEER as well.

For those interested the AHRI reference number for the new furnace is: 4236292

"For those interested the AHRI reference number for the new furnace is: 4236292"

rmrc

that matching number is either wrong or has not been updated in the AHRI Directory.

TD

TD-
The furnace just started shipping on 11-Feb and arrived at my dealer's supplier in southern CA on 16-Feb so I'm not surpised it's not in the directory yet. For all I know I may be the first to actually have this new lower output 5-ton model installed. My hvac company presented me with an AHRI paper with the above reference number.

Question on the XV95: Aside from actually feeling the air coming from the registers, is there another way to determine which stage the burner is on? Maybe the t-stat displays this info somewhere? As the furnace and Honeywell VP IAQ "learn" my home I notice the blower comes on at a low speed and then ramps up before reducing blower speed as the set point is approached/reached. Pretty sure during recovery today it was on high fire for about 15 mins before the blower speed was reduced and settled into a barely audible low comfortable heat for quite awhile.