What is location? Living area size of basement, same main floor, same upper floor?

Be specific. What size and eff of furnaces you are replacing along with size of AC condensers?

If you plan on window upgrades in near future, this should be taken into consideration as far as correct sizing.

New linesets? anything about pleated filter media cabinets which I would recommend?

IMO

Location is in St. Louis. Summer is usually AC running for 5-6 months. Winter for probably 4-5 months. Main floor is probably 2000-2500 and upper is basically a large 1000-1500 master and three smaller 12x12 bedrooms. Basement approx 1500-2000.

I'm replacing old York products (15 year old). 3-ton and 4-ton AC. They are 7 SEER. Furnaces - older too, but unk BTU. Maybe 100/60 as proposed? The current furnaces are not efficient. The contractor told me he didn't seem to see a need for upgrading any current equipment size so he quoted same sizes. Bigger furnace is York p3HUC16N09201c. It is a PSC blower. Smaller one I didn't take model, assume same model but smaller BTU.

What do you mean regarding linesets? I googled the media cabinets you refer - again not sure what you mean. I am not doing a whole-home air filtration system, just the humidifier as the extra.

I will assume upper floor furnace will be located in attic. Pls confirm.

Where will be main floor furnace be located? Unless there is legitimate reason, that furnace should be upgraded to the high eff XV95 furnace model.

How are you filtering your return air? If using 1" filters, I would definitely go with Trane Perfect Fit media cabinets on both systems for indoor air quality and superior protection of evap coil and blower motor. I strongly recommend this. If I understand correctly, I think pricing is good. On the upstairs system, I would upgrade to the XR15 or XR16 models. You could save some bux on using HW thermostat model 8321, same as Trane's 803. Refrigerant linesets must be to correct size. If reusing old and having them flushed, dealer must verify size is correct. If not, new is advised.

IMO

You will never see a difference in operating costs between a SEER 14.5 and 14.75. Don't get hung up about SEER ratings. Your focus should be properly installed and sized equipment.

You have a large house and you need a load calculation and inspection of the duct work to verify the capacity. I can't follow how the size of your house. Saying your main floor is 2000-2500 sq. feet is a 25% error variation. The size of the basement does not factor into cooling. It is a small impact of heating if you choose to heat it.

I don't understand why you need 4 tons of cooling for the first floor, but only 3 tons for the second. It is possible if the first floor has many windows, but they would all have to be facing south and west.

Contact more contractors and ask them if they will do a Manual J calculation. Once you have that information you should get quotes for furnaces and AC combinations. I think you should invest the money in a 95%+ efficiency furnace. Ask for quotes for several combinations. A good contractor should show you various options.

Sure, the guy who bid us out is highly reviewed on Angie's List and was perfectly happy to bid out multiple priced options. I just told him I'm a bid budget conscious as to models so he didn't go with the 95% eff furnaces. I'll ask about a manual J calculation and see what they say.

I'm not worried about seeing differences from 14-14.75 SEER. I recognize that the proper equipment is more vital.

Regarding 4 vs 3 tons... our upstairs is essentially a stairwell leading upstairs to a balcony overlooking the great room below. There are 3 bedrooms and a master bed/bath. Only the rooms and bathrooms have ductwork (nothing in balcony or hallway). The main level obviously has the bulk load of the work so I assume this is why they decided on 4 ton initially. Are you saying you think 4 ton is undersized or that the 3 ton is oversized for upstairs? The main room great room can be seen here:

http://thumbs.trulia-cdn.com/pictures/thumbs_3/ps.60/9/1/7/1/picture-uh=6ba7dd2cb41f02b56749414fbedf818-ps=917164ce4b28091abf097b54d793219.jpg

The windows face east and the sun comes up in the corner in the morning from sunrise until about 11:00 am, heating up the room considerably (partly windows - which will be replaced with good quality windows within 3-4 years).

Not much evening or direct afternoon sun heating up my house, although the sun does directly hit the AC units after about 1pm, all afternoon in the summer.

People come on this forum and want advice. Not getting the XV95 is a mistake and I don't understand the statement about the different ductwork. Is that your view or the dealer's? I do think a load calc for bottom floor system is indicated. Mike is correct that loads for basement below grade are usually quite small both cooling and heating. The large 2 story room on main floor might or might not indicate 4 tons needed for AC cooling.

It's also a mistake not getting filter media cabinets.

IMO

The cooling load for the upper floor is greater than the lower floor. This is because the upper floor has an attic above, while the lower floor has a conditioned space above it. This assumes both floors are about the same size with similar ceiling heights and windows.

Your house is challenging in that it has very high ceiling with many windows. Sizing the equipment based on rules of thumb or floor area will not work. You also have to pay attention to where the vents are in the high ceiling areas. The placement can make a big difference in the overall performance. You want to find a contractor who is willing to spend the time to study your overall HVAC system and make recommendations.

Do you know how much it costs to heat your house? If not then try to calculate it. Don't dismiss the higher efficiency furnace without understanding the costs savings. You may be eligible for a local utility rebate. This will help offset the initial costs.

Tiger, thanks for the advice. If I can afford the xv95, I will definitely do it. All a matter of budget as most of it is. My current ductwork is non-PVC. What will need to be changed to go from a PCS blower furnace (York, model above) to the XV95? Just ductwork from furnace to the exiting ductwork in the utility room that goes to the rest of the house? Or, will ductwork need to be changed within walls in the whole home? I assume, this isn't an option.

I was asking in general about ductwork with the XV95 - not sure what would need to be changed from my current setup, if anything? I definitely do not know and I was asking more as to what you guys think.

Again, thanks for the help here. Consensus seems to be to go with more efficient model if I can afford to do so. If so - do you need a picture of my current system to see what ductwork changes need to be made?

The duct work does not be to be changed as long as it large enough to handle the required air flow. The key areas are the main supply and return ducts at the furnace and the main trunks.

So.. I had some other companies come out, do some manual J calculations, and measure my ductwork etc.

I will be going with a XV95 (100k BTU) and XL18i (4ton) with XV80 (60k BTU) and XL18i (3ton) for my system, with Air-Bear filtration on both and humdifiers on both.

Thoughts?

Has any contractor done a load calculation? It is difficult to tell from your posts whether the sizes are correct. 160,000 BTUs for heating, and 4 tons for cooling seem big, but they could be correct. Did you ever get accurate area dimensions for the first and second floors?

Why the XV80 and not a XV95 for the second floor? Is it a cost issue?

I have had two manual J calls done by separate companies and both were shown to me. Both indicated I need 2.5 ton upstairs and 3.5-4 down. The upper floor doesn't run near as much so to save on cost, I did choose the xv80.

Manual J calcs *

My current furnace is 115k but and 60k btu

Mike - sorry, I looked at my bid, and I am in fact getting two XV95 vs the one and an XV80

I think you have made a good choice. What was the total cost for everything?

Mike, quoted was $17k with all equip, two thermostats, two air bear filtration systems and two humidifiers. All new copper lines and whatever is needed. 10 labor warranty and all manufacturer extended warranties.

I think that is a fair price for the amount and type of equipment you are getting.