Binkie, I reread your last post. If I understand correctly, your daughter and grandchild live free because of a home you let her live in. Also, she does not work. This makes me want to ask a few questions... First, if she doesn't work, how does she have the money to go shopping, even at thrift shops, six or so days a week? Second, if you own the house, then why don't you make it a condition for her living there that she keep it reasonably clean and tidy. What you described in your other post sounds like a health and fire hazard to me. Six root canals, crowns, and an extraction at 3??? I understand why you say that was serious. I'm glad to hear she got the toothpaste. Now, let's hope she follows through with teaching him to brush. Yes, occassionally not wearing socks or underwear is probably not grounds for social services to step it, but if what you've described is true, I would guess they'd step in in a heartbeat. What you have described is a child running around in a house packed full with stuff, everything in chaos, a child with a mouth full of rotten teeth, running around half naked and stinky feet. All of this with the Mother's attitude as "it doesn't matter." Now, what do you think social services would see?

Kimmyla: I was once in your daughter's shoes. Parent's divorced when I was 3, had a horrible relationship with my dad until I was 16, dad used to work a lot, not show up to get me when he said he would etc... and Mom's house had 1 of her 4 bfs after dad in it.. so let's just say I was a pretty confused little girl. I was doing the EXACT thing you say your daughter was doing... She probably really doesn't like her father right now, understandably. I was wondering though, if there is any close family you have there?... possibly an uncle or a good friend's husband.. right now what she needs is some positive influence from a male figure who can provide that for her...providing you can explain the situatioon before hand and try not to let her know it is some kind of set-up. If you let her get too far she will find it in boys and follow their lead... whatever that may be. She needs to understand that the feelings she has about her father are okay, and she needs someone to express those to... and no offence it may not be you. Couselllors would be good, but if she is anything like I was I didn't see a point in talking to anyone I didn't know, I also thought I knew it all at age 12 haha. Anyway, you must be extremely actively involved right now and watching what shes doing and who she hangs around with as friends. She is seeking acceptance and love, she knows you love her and you are there but she probably has this empty hole emotionally she will try to fill. Whether it be friends, or a bf. It's not your love that will fix this problem right away as complicated as that sounds. Taking things from her will only push her farther away from you right now,but she obviously needs rules... You have to find a way to build her self confidence/self-esteem. I'm not too sure why but it also sounds as though her self confidence is low. I'm not sure where you live, but there is thing online called the DOVE campaign... And the website gives excellent ideas for things to do and say to young girls and how to build their self-esteem. (I have been doing the exercises with my step-daughter). If she has the self-confidence, self-esteem and family support she will take these with her in the situations she finds herself in.. such as when someone is trying to take advantage of her, or pressure her into doing something she shouldn't be..She needs the confidence to say no, I don't care what Jane wants me to do, I don't have to because I don't want to. Even girl friends at school. Don't give up on her, and I know it may be exhausting and a never ending process, but my mom didn't and I pulled through the other side. It was a bumpy road, and some of the things she did or said I hated her in the moment... But I hope you find the strength to be her rock right now. She needs a hobby again to keep her occupied, and keep her remembering that she is good at something.. this too will build her self-esteem. I'm not sure on what terms you are with your ex-h but I would seriously call him and tell him what his absence is doing to her. She may be mad at him for various reasons, and she may HATE his guts for putting you through this, but he still has a daughter approaching her teens and she needs him. He needs to know this... If he chooses not to contact etc then thats a different story, but for him to just leave you with all this and abandon his daughter is extremely irresponsible of him. I have a lot of other really uncharming things to say about it but I will keep my mouth shut. He needs to know what is going on, and the reprocussions which will be if she continues down this path. He is her father, he is 50% responsible for her and he should NEVER let some woman get in the middle of that. If he doesn't want to help her and help you out with her then so be it. For now though, be strong because this road is going to get a lot bumpier. Another thing, when I was younger I was really close to an older female cousin of mine (4 yrs diff) and I would confide in her about everything I never told my mom. She would tell my mom behind my back things so she was in the loop... and could help me or guide me. She wouldn't tell mom everything but when it was really bad, or to do with my safety she would. Later, I found all this out and I was grateful that she almost saved my life a few times. Stay strong!! Sorry it is so long, it really hit home for me. My thoughts and prayers are with you!

Threats NEVER work with kids, ACTIONS work. Children of 3 are pretty stubborn, but #1 they are NOT smarter than the parent, and #2 they are not in charge, YOU are (You are the parent after all. You tell the child to do something once (ONE command, not ..pick up your room, make your bed and get dressed, they won't "hear" all of that), and it has to be "fairly" simple, and the expectations on your part have to be fairly simple. Get dressed. When you're dressed we will have breakfast. Now follow through. Temper tantrum. So what, go on with your life, but NO BREAKFAST until she's dressed. Do NOT hit your sister or you WILL sit on the naughty spot for 3 minutes. You hit your sister, you will now sit in the naughty spot for 3 minutes (and you keep putting her on it and re-starting the timer until she is on for 3 minutes), Yes the first 3-5 times will he hell, but it will get better when she realizes YOU are in charge, not her. Vickey-MN

Hi Vesters. So many things you wrote struck a chord with me as we experienced the same issues with my SD, who is now 14. We've had custody of her since she was 5, after gaining emergency and then full custody though a very nasty battle. After DH and his ex divorced SM moved SD hours away. SD began sleeping in her bed, showering with her, being completely dependent on her mom. BM thrived on this - it made her feel needed and important. SD couldn't (or wouldn't) do or try anything on her own. SD became BM's 'bff' and confidant - all at the mature age of 3. This continued until BM found a boyfriend, and then SD was kicked into her own bed in her own room on a different floor and told to go to sleep. Once that relationship ended SD was needed again and back in BM's bed, all the while hearing about BM's relationship woes. Fast forward a few years. We have custody, SD sees her mom EOW. She's still trying to have SD sleep with her (between boyfriends) and be dependent on her. The 'bff' behavior is worsening and we're hearing all about BM's love life from SD. SD is getting stomach aches right before visitations and worrying about how to take care of her mom. All so appropriate for a mother/daughter relationship. And then there was. . . "BM also used to say things to SD (right after I came on the scene) like, "I'd never let a man come between us" and "You're the only one I need" which sounds innocent enough, but it was very much meant as a "look at your father, moving on with his life, I'll never let that happen to us." I could have written that. BM is always saying this. . . in between the men in her life. But what SD figured out about 2 years ago is that her mom is full of sh@t. She started to see all these behaviors factored around her mom and what her mom needed on her mom's schedule. She was blinded by the 'my mom needs me' and 'my mom loves me best' until then, but with the help of her counselor and a little maturity she started to figure it out. I won't say she doesn't fall back into buying her mom's crud every now and again, but for the main part she can she the behavior for who it is really about - mom, not SD. I tell you all this so you know you are not alone, and also to give you hope. Your SD needs help, and she needs her dad to help her receive it, but she can recover from this. I will tell you one thing SD's counselor shared with us that was helpful for SD and for our tongues as we weren't biting them so hard. When you say "I'm always a little uncomfortable when she talks so openly about her BM with me (because I know the "real deal"), yet I'm always very careful to make sure I speak loving and positively about her ." you need to stop. This doesn't mean speak negatively, but you don't have to put a good spin on bad actions. Don't try to make mom's bad action ok. Don't make excuses for her. Listen to SD, let her know you understand why she would be upset, help her with generalized, non leading questions discover why she's upset, but don't then tell her it's all ok and mommy knows best. Later, when she figures out mommy doesn't, you will be seen as a liar. It's ok to say sometimes mommy's get confused, or mommy's make mistakes. This is likely better pronounced by DH at first, but you need to know that you don't have to be positive. Just don't be negative, if you get what I mean. :-) Good luck. Keep us updated, and keep your chin up. You are doing the right thing.