I don't know that I'd do kindergarten twice, but the Montesorri program is wonderful from what I've seen. I know several children that have been through the program and they were advanced when they started first grade. Because of that, I think a regular kindergarden would be a step backwards for your son, and that might be when he would become bored.

Any chance he could continue with a montesorri program after kindergarden?

tina

Yes, I'd do it. I'd start off upfront, telling him he will be attending kindergarten for two years because of his age. That way, he won't think he is a failure when his other friends move on to first while he stays in kindergarten.

Moving him to a new school for a more formal kindergarten is a great idea, IMO. This is exactly what my DD did with her November son and it worked out great. Max's best friend did the same thing. He was a September baby.

BTW, Max was in the 3rd percentile until after high school. His driver license photo looks like he is 10. Now he is plenty tall, around 5'9". He just hit puberty late. His license was automatically renewed when he was in the middle east, so he is still carrying that silly 10 yo looking photo around on his license. It doesn't even look like him anymore so he can't use it for ID. Dumb kid. I keep telling him to get another picture taken. He won't make the time.

Go for it!

If I were you, I'd keep my son in preschool another year or keep him home with me. Why would you rather do kdg twice, when he's a year older, than preschool twice, when he's still such a little boy? He won't be bored if he has a good teacher and you supplement and challenge him. I'd let him grow and mature a little more, especially since he is small and he may be missing many days of school.

Well, here goes. I am the mother of six certified, bona fide geniuses and gmother of six gkids, three of whom (so far, the oldest is six) also are. Two of my kids could read by age 3, one of my gkids can now. My kids were all in the 99th percentile on every standardized test.

My kids all excelled in Math and science. When my son went to kdg at age 41/2, he had been reading for almost 2 years on a 5th grade level, did math on a 4th grade level. All my kids were like that, took every AP class, went to the local univ for advanced math as srs in HS because the HS didn't offer the math they were capable of, graduated as HS valedictorians or close to it with college credits, were in the Nat'l Honor Society. They were also president of the class, captains of the athletic teams, homecoming queens/kings, drum major in the band, etc.

But they were also normal kids in their own grade levels. The oldest three are October babies and the youngest in their classes, the youngest three winter babies and the oldest. Maybe we were lucky to live in good school districts, but my kids were challenged by their teachers all along the way.

In the end, all my kids, whether the youngest or oldest kids in the class, did well, but one of the October babies would have been better off socially if we had held him back a year, until he was 5. But he could read, so we sent him as a 4 yo. He was the smallest of my kids, and was small in his class all the way until he was in his second year of college. He hated that.

There is a lot more to school than academics; the social aspects are very important, too. If you continue to challenge your son intellectually, he will be fine. If your concern is that his friends are moving on without him, he'll make new friends - maybe he'll even be the alpha male of his preschool class!

Fortunately, your options sound like a 'this-good' or 'that-good' choice, not the 'rock' or 'hard-place' type of choice...

Couple of questions:

- So he's not behind. That's great! Is he ahead? Ahead to the extent that he really will get bored if he's stays with his age-mates in another year of a good and fun pre-school? Ahead enough that he will likely stay ahead or on-track when he starts missing days due to normal sicknesses?

- He's small. (My older son was too -- ~10-20th %ile. Seriously cute how tiny he was compared to his classmates!) In kindergarten, that probably won't matter much, but later on, it could. How do your son's genetics play into his height? In other words, are you and Hubby tall? Average? Not so tall? Is he likely to 'catch up' someday soon, or is 'small' likely to be a long-term deal?

- You said he is a little behind socially. Again, that certainly makes sense given what he's been through. But a huge part of kindergarten is about social adjustment, and being a bit behind socially could turn into a big deal for him. A small kid who is a bit immature socially and is ordinary smart as opposed to intimidatingly brilliant --

Though I can see why you might want to keep him in the same class with his freinds, overall, it is starting to sound like he might be at a bit of a disadvantage... That an extra year to (as Sherrmann put it) become 'alpha male' in pre-school might really be a good thing --

Raising my two special boys (both have learning differences) -- I've become a TOTAL convert to the idea of 'developmental readiness'. There's simply a time when their brains become ready to process certain types of information. Before that point, it's like banging their heads on the walls -- NOTHING works. After that point, it's EASY to teach them. In fact, they just 'get it' and it's not about the Teacher at all -- it's about the Student being ready. The information all of a sudden makes sense...

I'd just leave him in preschool for two years. He's your baby. There is no rush. He needs to strengthen his immune system and catch up to the other kids physically. Right off the top of my head I can name a half dozen (good, sweet, smart) boys who were born late for their grade and couldn't hack some parts of kindergarten or a lower grade and were held back. It can be some kind of mental or social or physical maturity that just doesn't kick in when the other kids have it. Their parents agonize about it and the kids suffer for it.

I'd just leave him in preschool and enjoy him for a little longer.

I didn't read Sweeby's post because I was busy writing mine. Her last paragraph stated exactly the point that I was trying to make. She was much more eloquent!

The worse that can happen if he goes to preschool for two years is that he might be smarter and more mature than the other boys in his grade. That is not a bad thing.

In the community I used to live in this was a reality-

Here is a link that might be useful: 2 year kindergarten

I'm not an educator but here are some things to think about based on our experience (DS had a borderline Bday as well. The school we wanted to enroll him in had a blanket rule that a child had to be 5 on day one to enter kindergarten. We have always been glad that we waited.)

Is the kindergarten coed? As a general rule, the girls are going to be more advanced in the early grades. A boy can often use extra time to mature to be able to better compete in fine motor, and verbal skills with the girls.

Kindergarten isn't what it used to be. Kids are expected to know their alphabet, counting, and be behaviorally able to sit and concentrate for longer periods of time than we were. Most kindergartens around here are full day 5 days a week. This can be hard on little boys who tend to be more physically active and skirmy than their female counterparts.

If your child isn't a genius (mine isn't either, but neither are his father or mother), ask yourself what the point is of pushing him into school at a younger than usual age. What is the real benefit?

And one other thing to factor in, once you send him to school, your time together is limited forever. I was working for long hours when my son was 4, but you are a SAHM? I often think if I was a SAHM, I would have skipped kindergarten all together (it is not required in my state) and enjoyed every minute of the time together.

Is your son a preemie? You said "after his early start." My DS was too. By the time kindergarten rolled around he was on target with gross and motor skills, verbally and socially, but once real school started he began to have some problems. It took us way too long to figure out because he was always advanced in reading, writing, and verbal skills and so his other difficulties were discounted and not given the look they deserved. But what I am saying is that there may be some things you can't anticipate now that show up. Having our DS get that extra year to mature only helped him.

What we did was enroll DS in a preschool that prepared the kids for kindergarten. They did the alphabet with sounds, counting, and even learned how to tie shoes (no velcro straps allowed) We thought the teacher was fantastic, she centered her entire curriculum on nature, her classroom was filled with animals and plants and even a huge dried hornet's nest hung from the ceiling. DS loved it and I think he really benefited from it.

Good luck with your decision.

When my eldest son went to Kindergarten he had just turned 5 in August. The cut off date was November 1. I figured he'd be among the youngest but no big deal. Then he came home and told me about his best friend Peter who had the same birthday - except that when my son turned 5 Peter turned 6. At Back To School night I discovered that my son was the youngest of 15 kindergarten students.

We had just moved to this town a few months earlier and since this was my first born I wasn't aware of a fairly common practice in my public school. Many children were held back a year, boys more often then girls. It's not unusual for girls to be more school ready then boys and I have absolutely no problem with a parent holding their child back. My son was ready and eager to go. But had I been more aware I might have reconsidered.

My son did fine. But what I learned as time went on and I met more parents and became friends with teachers is that while many kids do well in the lower grades they may start to struggle when they hit grades 4 and above. This isn't something that can always be predicted. But that's one of the reasons I discovered that many kids who might have been borderline were held back. Unfortunately our school didn't have a 2 year kindergarten, most of the parents just kept them in preschool for an additional year.

My son also had several classmates (all boys) who repeated 2nd grade. Apparently by this time the parents and teachers could see signs that these kids weren't ready to progress. Obviously all the kids in the school knew who had repeated but fortunately at that age no one cared.

One other aspect to consider is competitive sports in school. While my son did great academically and socially he was a late bloomer athletically. In the lower grades he was an equal but when he hit grade 5 many of the other boys were physically much more advanced. My son was still a short, freckle faced kid with some pudge around the middle. His friends were trying out for elite travel soccer teams and he felt left behind playing on a lower competitive level.

This may never be an issue for you or your son. Our school system is one of the top rated in the state. We actually moved to this town primarily for the schools and stayed 27 years. The town is lovely too. This is a very competitive school district both academically and athletically and most of the students play sports. After having 3 go through the schools (and all have finished college) I personally feel that it's a little too competitive and there's too much pressure applied on these kids. But that's the way it is here.

Since he is only 4 1/2 you have time to ponder what's best and to see how he develops. You can also talk to the school administrators and find out what the average age is of incoming kindergarten kids. Even if you hold him back for a year it's not lost time. Just think of all the wonderful things you can expose him to. If I had to make the decision I'd lean toward keeping him back. Unless by this time next year you feel more confident about it.

Regarding what McMann said about athletics: While you may not be thinking about it now, perhaps in a few years athletics will be important for your son. My small, young October baby son was a good soccer player, but not big enough to play with his classmates. In HS he couldn't make the team because he was too small....but when he was in college he grew. By then, though, it was too late for him to get any athletic scholarships or to play for his college, which his younger, winter-baby brother did. Those things can be extremely important to teens.

It seems like most are addressing whether to start early rather than plan to repeat kindergarten ... (I agree that I wouldn't start a boy early unless he was very big and exceptionally advanced already at 4. I think people across the US tend to hold back boys, so he'll naturally be at a disadvantage from the get-go if he's a year and a half younger than some of his classmates.)

But as for repeating kindergarten ... it sounds like you aren't considering repeating the same kindergarten, which I wouldn't do. Second K would be at the school where he would continue as an elementary student? Would his friends from First K be in the 1st grade at that school? Do you think he would feel left behind if they entered a different grade?

Otherwise, I see few problems with two different kindergartens, unless the second was easier than the first.

I'll come back and finish....I have to get the subject out of bed or he'll never go to sleep tonight! But for now...

Thanks so much all for the thoughtful posts and sharing your stories. Letfs see if I can cover a few of the questionsK

In general, he will not really even notice he¡¦s in ¡§Kindergarten¡¨ because he¡¦s going to be going to the same school, same time, aside from five days a week instead of four as he is now, and two of those days will go til 3 pm (he¡¦s out at 1 now). They are using one of the play rooms as the kindergarten and the kids will retreat to that room for their formal study times often during the day. It¡¦s (IMO) Kindergarten light º I actually wouldn¡¦t send him to that school for kindergarten at this point since they¡¦re unproven (a great preschool but the next step up is new for them). So this is kind of opportunity based without being pressure based as if I challenged the birthday date and pushed him into preschool at the school he will be attending from K-8 (local private school with great programs). That¡¦s the only reason this has come up. I wouldn¡¦t push for him to be at another kindergarten. And I wouldn¡¦t even have done this but the teacher asked if I was interested and the Montesorri expert tested him and said he was ready. He knows his colors, letters, does basic spelling, counts to 100, knows more shapes than I knew existed º Cuts with scissors, draws blah blah all of the stuff he¡¦s supposed to know he¡¦s got. So mentally he¡¦s totally ready.

So tina, no he won¡¦t continue in Montesorri after this year. We¡¦ve picked a good school with a strong curriculum that we feel he¡¦ll excel in. DH and I have this sort of war of schools going º He wants math and science, I want social and the arts. We found a good school that has all and seems to be great at keeping it all going to the benefit of the kids (we tended to find many schools excelled in one area but failed in another). It¡¦s a small town, I do have limitation, but it¡¦s a great school and he¡¦ll go there (yes likely with totally different kids) from K-8. I liked hearing how good of a program the Montesorri program is though!

Goldie. Max cracks me up. I¡¦m sure that is our son¡¦s future as well. He¡¦s small, that probably won¡¦t change. I always looked way younger than I was, both as an adult and a youth. I hadn¡¦t really thought of telling him about the two year thing but it¡¦s probably a good idea given that his friends will move on to the other school ahead of him.

Shermann, you have just a little experience don¡¦t you heh heh You were a busy mom! And bright kids are always challenges (in good ways¡Kdon¡¦t take that wrong!!!) I didn¡¦t mean to say that the little geniuses aren¡¦t normal. Sorry if you took it that way. I really just meant that we¡¦re relaxed about the issue. I have younger friends with small kids and it seems like they spend far too much time trying to make little Johnny or Sarah Sue into a prima ballerina or mathematician by the time they¡¦re 7. I expect our son will be a fairly bright little guy¡Khe is already and his parents are both above average intelligence. Dad¡¦s a chemical engineer, very science oriented. I¡¦m more socially comfortable than him and very artistic plus for some odd reason I love numbers. I think he¡¦ll inherit some brain power. And I am aware his friends will move on. He¡¦ll move on when he goes to school next year and it might not be the same place as his friends. He¡¦ll adjust.

Sweeby. He¡¦s ahead of the other 4 year olds and on pace with the 5 year olds on most everything, far ahead of most in small motor skills (always been his strong point). He can stay up with the pack when sick¡Kthat¡¦s going to be an issue for us anyhoo as he won¡¦t grow out of this until he¡¦s 8 or 9 years old at minimum so we¡¦ll have to deal with that throughout his early school years.

The poor little puke didn¡¦t inherit any height. Dad is 5¡¦7¡¨ and I¡¦m 5¡¦. So while he¡¦s small, that¡¦s probably not going to change in his lifetime. He¡¦s going to have to deal with being small. He¡¦s not going to be the same physically as his friends ever most likely. Both DH and I are prepared to help him find his place in life because we both dealt with being the small kid so that¡¦s not a huge worry for us. But he¡¦s REALLY small now so being a year back in kindergarten isn¡¦t the worst thing in the world. He may need to be moved up later, but we want to wait and see how that goes. His new school (grade school) has multi age classes so it might not matter as much in the early years and he has the opportunity to study above his level in the school no matter what ¡§grade¡¨ he¡¦s in.

LOL He¡¦s probably not ever going to be an alpha male. 2 year olds are often larger than him heh heh

Dee his immune system won¡¦t catch up for quite some time so we actually don¡¦t take that into consideration as much as you¡¦d think. Mostly because our pediatrician says ¡§deal with it¡¨ so that he can learn not to focus on the sick times and just see them as part of his life. The one benefit of this opportunity is that the preschool will allow me to keep him in preschool if we find he¡¦s not adjusting well to the kindergarten situation and he¡¦ll never even know there was an issue.

Nan that pep program is COOL! What a forward thinking school program.

Barb, Yes the class is coed. It¡¦s going to be an even mix of boys and girls. The other two boys are (and this is just my opinion as I don¡¦t know them that well) on either side of DS developmentally (as far as language skills, knowledge etc). The girls¡Kone is a beautiful Chinese girl who was adopted by parents our age (we love that). She has some of the same issues as our son because of her year in the orphanage. She¡¦s a bright little (actually she¡¦s quite tall) girl and definitely ahead of our son, but in some other ways she¡¦s with him or behind. They do really well together. The other two girls are socially very very very shy so I can¡¦t tell you much about their mental skills but they have some social work to be done. Both are only children and teacher tells us that it¡¦s not abnormal for single kids to be a bit behind on the sharing etc and playing together stuff when they¡¦re only kids. He¡¦s ahead of all the kids in fine motor skills. (Per the teacher). He always excelled at that stuff in occupational therapy. From what I¡¦ve seen and heard his verbal skills are better than those other girls but not at the same level as the first girl I described.

Ya he was a preemie, 7weeks and his condition is a rare complication of prematurity. Again, the school is still his preschool basically so I¡¦m thinking the ¡§kindergarten light¡¨ program might be a step forward for him. One thing parents tend to do with sick kids is to hold them back¡Ktry to keep them little as long as possible. I¡¦m guilty of this on occasion. My husband and I didn¡¦t know if he would be with us this long¡Kthat does stuff to you and you really have to think about it and let go on occasion when it seems like you shouldn¡¦t º I don¡¦t want to hold him back just because he¡¦s been sick, nor push him forward if he¡¦s not ready. If he has adjustment issues we¡¦ll pull him out right away.

But one thing I won¡¦t do is have him at home with me full time. We spent too much time together when he was young frankly. He has finally gotten to be not so dependant on me that he can¡¦t function¡Kand it was a problem early on, but to be expected given that he and I spent 100% of our time together, especially when in hospital. I was his go to girl and his protector and his mom and that¡¦s all good, but it¡¦s not the best thing in the world for a socially developing child to be tied tightly to their mothers apron strings (does anyone wear an apron anymore?) Anyhoo, preschool¡Kgetting away from me a few hours a day, has been the best thing in the world for him developmentally.

Isn¡¦t this child rearing stuff fun? There are always questions¡Kdid I do it right? Wrong? Gad someone should make a nice easy map LOL

I wouldn't start him early. When my October-born daughter was nearing five, I researched whether to start her in kindergarten early. My research showed that most kids do better when held out that extra year. If I remember correctly, it was about 70 odd percent of girls who do better, but over 95 percent of boys who do better. And, from a selfish, mother persepctive, keep him close to you a little longer. You will never regret it. Don't underestimate the longterm benefit a loving, attentive parent has on the social adjustment of children.
Dee

Igloo, YOU know your son and your situation best. Personally, I don't think this decision is going to matter much one way or the other in the final outcome. This isn't a decision that has to be cast in cement. If you want to start him and he doesn't appear ready, you can always move him. It's your attitude he will pick up on. If you fret, he will fret.

I'm certain you need to parent that child your way. I've seen kids raised by Nanni's who have turned out very well adjusted. I've seen hover mom's disable their children because the kids don't have confidence to take a risk without mommy. Then there is everything in between... You are right. There are no easy maps for child rearing. Kindergarten for one or two years is a drop in the bucket. If you go forward with a confident attitude, your DS will be fine. Do what feels best for your family.

Two boys. I've tried it both ways and I don't see any advantage whatsoever in pushin' a kid into K earlier than you absolutely have to -- like none. I don't understand the hurry and there are so many advantages to just giving them another year. To heck with reading levels and all that other stuff -- it's about giving them another year to just be little and grow and develop. There are a million options out there these days to give a little person as much challenge as they need before they start K and to supplement if K isn't challenging enough.

Wait a minute and look a day pay the K experience and the game of school will get rolling full speed soon enough. And before ya know it they're working on getting their temps and worrying about where the Freshmen are allowed to park.

It all starts plenty fast and then it's almost over in what seems to be a blink of an eye. No need to rush IMO.

Not going to tell you what to do, just going to tell you what we did. My 2nd DS had an Aug 15 birthday and our cutoff was Sept. 1. After talking with several other moms, we decided not to send him to kindergarten when he was 5, but to wait a year. (He was smart but very shy. He is now 14 and I think we made a great decision.) So he did 3 years of preschool. I wondered if he might be bored during his 3rd year (same school, different teachers each year) but he wasn't. He was totally fine and had another fun year, which of course is what preschool is all about.

I think the Montessori program will be an ideal fit for your little guy. More relaxed than traditional K and he will really have a great time socializing with his best buddies,something that he will absolutely love. It sounds like the admin. is really in tune with their students needs.
Kids get pushed too quickly these days,and don't have enough time to be kids, methinks!

Did I say you guys are great :) I should YOU'RE GREAT!

Goldie we will do what we will do :) I'm not that fretful about it, in fact I had pretty much made up my mind (paid fees ect) but I was just thinking that talking to some other parents would be worthwhile because it's always good to get their hindsight view. For instance (thank you mcmann) I didn't even know you could scope out the average ages of the kids enrolled in a school....wouldn't have even thought of it! I will be checking that right away.

And yes, this is a different kindergarten than the formal one he'll go to so I belive that the second one will be harder, more challenges and he'll need to hit some hurdles socially before he's ready for that one. I wouldn't even consider sending him there this fall. It's five long days a week verses 2 and it's a school more than a play school.

Ladies the sports thing....you know you're absolutely right about it being an issue for a little guy. He did soccer this year (just finished thank god) and his lack of size and physical ability was obvious. He wasn't the only child out picking clover but still, he had a hard time and there was no way he'd have kept up if it hadn't been an indoor 3-5 league. He does not get the team concept (most didn't aside from the coaches kids who are natural born athletes). He was not just a little smaller...there wasn't a 3 year old smaller than him. He's scrawny and tiny and if it were a more aggressive sport I'd have actually been fearful of injury because of his size. He sucked :) I love the boy, but he's not likely to be a soccer star heh heh He didn't really "get" it but that was a positive because if he did he'd probably have gotten hurt fighting for the ball with the bigger kids.

Funny thing though....one day in soccer at another gym he went behind the play area and picked up a tball bat. He's never seen tball in his life or baseball really aside from TV. He swung the bat four times and hit the ball each time easily (it was on a string). I'm thinking he's probably more suited to a sport like that.

We will encourage athletics....but maybe not football. And given our height I don't think the basketball team will be calling either. The sports thing haunted me all my life (I was small). In 16 or so years I don't think we'll be looking for a sports scholarship for him...but his grandma took care of college anyhoo so I guess I don't have to push him to be a sports star (thank god). DH found sports that suited his height, but of course it's an issue for kids, which is why I haven't considered actually pushing him ahead a grade (does that make sense?). I'm not in that big of a rush to get rid of him heh heh

I appreciate the experiences and thoughts you have all shared. I've asked other questions in this forum and others and always with an idea what I was going to do, but I've found that a diverse audience can open your eyes to other things you need to think about and consider as you go forward. I'm not hesitant goldie :) I promise, I just like walking into a situation with my eyes wide open and this (IMO) is part of opening up my eyes.

Honestly....if I look out 16 years I see my little drama queen son on the stage LOL He has personality plus, loves to entertain and is currently wearing a pair of my heels trying to tap dance. :) I'm considering tap lessons before another season of soccer!!!

Ah I see crew in your future! Lightweight Varsity 8 in the Head of the Charles!

My kids go to a private catholic school and I know several mothers who sent their late birthday kids to the public kindergarten and then sent them to kindergarten when they were six at the catholic school that they would go to through 8 grade. It worked out well for them. I don't see any downside in sending him to a kindergarten program that is within his existing preschool - not a formal elementary school program. Plus, I would think it would be more confusing for him to have his buddies from preschool all in this program and him being back with the "little kids" in preschool.

Moving him to a new school for kindergarten the following year will give him new experiences and a different social circle, rules, structure etc. Starting in kindergarten will be less stressful and since he is small, I would think you wouldn't want him to be in 1st grade at 6 years old.

My son is very small for his age, and he has an April birthday. He does very well in school and socially was ready for kindergarten so we sent him. He's going into 7th grade now and is still one of the smallest kids in his class - not a terrible cross to bear, but if he had a November birthday, we would have held him and let him be older and while he still would have been small, he would have been a little more in the middle of the class in size. But all in all, he's doing well and is happy.

I remember Max was OBSESSED with flying around his age. That and playing electric guitar to Paul Simon's 'Grace Land'. Tap dancing seems wonderful!!

Igloo, you are a wise mom. I can definitely see why you want him to spread his wings away from you. My situation was very different, I wasn't able to be around much in my DS's early years and I get wistful about it at times. But we can now afford college tuition!!!

Kindergarten light may be just thing for your DS. And only 6 in the class? A good teacher should be able to cater to the individual strengths and weaknesses of each child if that is the case.

And seriously, theatre can be the greatest experience. I have a niece who has been playing in theatre productions since she was 5. She never liked athletics. She continued on with an improv group right through 4 years of college.She has made the closest friends and developed a wonderful self confidence, as well as having a blast acting and singing all these years. It is a great alternative for a kid who isn't into athletics.

:) That's a nice read at the end of the night barb. Thanks. My closest girlfriend works outside the home and she is one to say "keep him close as long as possible" so I understand the working mom prospective on that issue. She misses a lot....you can't help but do so, but then I can see from the outside that sometimes her time with her kids is more productive than mine because I don't focus as much as she does when it's "their" time. That makes no sense, but I see pro's and con's in either situation. Her kids are great, but she did want to hold them a few more years. Mine is wonderful, but he's been held too much and I need to make sure he does spread his wings. I've seen a lot of hospital kids and their mom's and it can go both ways...good or bad, but one thing I saw and try hard to avoid is clinging. If you think your kids aren't going to make it it's ok to cling and we did...after all, it's just those few years and that's all you get right? But then they don't end up with the disease of the week and many mom's forget (and dads to be fair) to let go a little.

We are expecting to add to the family within the year as well, hopefully a toddler (around 3 or 4) who will also go to the preschool. I think it might be good for that child to have their space in preschool but still have big brother close by as well.

And theatre....yes we're open to it. We're open to whatever makes him happy and gives him confidence. I have this strong feeling about kids. I think if you expose them to a wide variety of "stuff" in life, you allow them to find their place. If you limit their exposure, they may miss their calling. Secretly we of course want him to be an incredibly successful young man who takes over the company from Dad. But we won't groom him for that, won't push it, heck aside from doing chores at home he does not even have to work in the company as many kids do in their parents company. If the kid wants to sing or dance or whatever, as long as he can do so and pay the bills, we'll support him. Hopefully he won't become a national chess player...I'll fall asleep at matches and that would be so embaressing for him....but even that I'll support heh heh

My next question will hopefully be "should the boys share a room" LOL But I'll wait til we know for sure :)

I think it's a good idea to either wait until he's 6 to start kindergarten, or have him go to "kindergarten" at the Montessori school first, then do another year of kindergarten at the new school. So he doesn't feel like he's being held back, you could tell him that he's going to "junior kindergarten" this year before he switches schools.

My experience:

My teenage son with a March birthday started at 5 1/2. He was very small (still is), a bit immature socially and wasn't really ready academically (was diagnosed with a learning disability in kindergarten). I wish I had held him back in kindergarten or started him later after a year of preschool or kindergarten in a private school, because he really could have used the extra year. I think it would have helped him even through high school.

My adult daughter with a November birthday started school when she was 4 because she was ready academically. Socially, however, she really wasn't even though she seemed eager to start school with all her neighborhood friends. For months she cried every morning when I dropped her off. The teacher said she stopped when I left but I used to park across the street at recess to see if she was okay (she was). From first grade on, she was fine and always excelled academically and socially. Unforeseen problem in high school though - she was always the youngest, which didn't work out so well for mom and dad when all the kids in her class were up to 2 years older and driving, dating, etc., and she wasn't allowed to do the same things.

We learned our lesson with our now 6 year old, an August baby. She was in preschool for years, unlike my other children, and she was ready socially and academically to start kindergarten at 5 but she would have been one of the youngest with the September 1 cutoff. Her pre-k though 8th grade private school offered a "Junior Kindergarten" so we enrolled her in that for a year before she started kindergarten at 6. Just a few of her friends from preschool started kindergarten at 5, but most also started at 6. She's at the top of her class now and I'm not sure she would have been had she started a year earlier. Plus - she'll be at least the same age as most of the boys in her class when she gets to high school!

Given what you've told so far that he does good on all fronts, but maybe the social I'd focus on the social part. If he goes to kindergarten with his friends will that help him develop socially or would having to make new friends in pre-school maybe be more beneficial, especially if he'll be going to a school where he'll have to make new friends?

Honestly I don't think in this case you could go wrong. Doesn't sound like it to me. BTW I'm curious what condition your DS has, you don't have to say if you don't want to, but I'm curious as a mom of a near term preemie whose only issues appear to be related to food, but I think if I remember correctly completely opposite of your son as she doesn't know when she's full and will just keep on eating and has a severe dairy allergy.

igloo, we did the EXACT same thing with our "soon-to-be" first grader, that you are wanting to do with your son. I would highly recommend it, too!

I intentionally enrolled my DS into a private Pre-K/Kindergarten school because I knew I would be sending him to a really great public school the next year-for Kindergarten. My question was the same as yours, do I put him into pre-k (just play) or into the K class that wasn't "full-blown" Kdg like the public school. I was really pushing for the Pre-K class, so he could be "top dog" because I thought he lacked a little self-confidence. Well, the private school interviewed him and thought he for sure needed to be in the K class, not pre-k. It was the best thing, because they were learning sight words, letters, sounds, etc. and by the time he got through the public school Kdg this last year, he REALLY knew his sight words, sounds, etc and I feel so good knowing he will enter 1st grade, really knowing those things. There were also 5 other boys in his private K class that didn't start Kdg until they were six too. So, I get the going to a different school for Kdg also, my ds didn't realize the private K was Kindergarten. And, that is just how we wanted it. There were also 5 other boys in his private K class, that was the same age and their parents did the same thing.

My girlfriend, a 2nd grade teacher told me, you always want them at the top of the class, if possible. I bugged her to death about what we should do about holding back our ds (who btw, has a late birthday). She also told me, when I thought he would be bored in public school Kdg, not to worry, because he can help the other kids in class who may be struggling, and he gets to help and learn again, at the same time.

Because after you hold them back, they will be the first to drive, date, etc in their class when they are older, so I was thinking about that too. But, in our area, it is not uncommon at all to have the boys start K at age 6.

As far as his lack of self-confidence, now, ds has too much confidence-HA!

I think that it sounds like a good idea. Hey - if half way through and you realize it's not working then he stays in the same place but goes just doesn't do the Kindergarten part.

I think that it sounds like a perfect opportunity to 'try it out' w/ a great big net underneath in case it's not happening this year.

I think most of us were talking about early-kindergarten in general, and not paying enough attention to the specifics of your case... (I know I went off that way.)

Given that the 'early' kindergarten would be so close to what he's in already, and that the 'regular' kindergarten would be a full year later and he'd be one of the older kids -- really, that's the best of both worlds. So long as you can spin it as a 'pre-K' or 'early-K' -- some sort of planned deal instead of 'repeating K' then I'm sure everything will work out great.

I absolutely love the Junior K name :) It's now being adopted by us and I'll share it with his teacher as well. :) It really is just that in our mind.

Olliesmom...too confident LOL Ya my little red headed stuborn monster with too much confidence....it's enough to scare me under the covers at night LOL If he gets cocky I'll start erasing his homework at night so he looks like a slacker to avoid any chance of a cocky red head heh heh

I scoped out the other kids today and will finish on Friday at their end of the year party, but it seems that only one of the six will actually be going on to the same school as him. He thinks she's 16 so I don't think he'll notice they didn't go together (everyone taller than him is 16 now since I told him he could drive the car when he was 16) :) I was hoping they'd marry (we have a couple crush on her parents cuz they're old and fun like we think we are LOL). But maybe the stigma of dating a younger (and likely much shorter) man will wain before 2025 and they will still have a future ;)

But the other kids are either going to public school or the other private school and two (brothers) will be moving after this year, so aside from the one little girl he's going to be with different kids in his real kindergarten anyhoo. He goes with the flow on stuff like that anyhoo so that's not a horrible worry. I think it would be harder to be at the preschool and then have his friends go into class and not get to go with them.

TT it is kind of a luxurious safty net to have isn't it? Worst case, it's too much for him and we back off but he never knows there was an issue. Best case, it's a good prep or Jr. Kindergarten before he moves to the other school for K-8 the next year. It's kind of a unique opportunity to have and I'm grateful for that coming our way.

Lyfia my son has selective IgG deficiency which is a rare complication of prematurity. But for preemies, immunoglobulin deficiencies aren't as uncommon as many expect, though it's more often A that's deficient (he also had that but has grown out of it). Typically if there is a feeding disorder it's the opposite of your problem. They associate food with pain from the beginning of their life if their problem is not recognized early enough (as was the case with our son) so they learn to control or disasociate themselves with hunger (but not with the grumpyness that accompanies hunger LOL).

IgA is fairly common at something like 1 in 300 or so. Very common in preemies (they're just not done cooking yet ya know) but gastric issues in general are always worse for preemies, even the close to term ones.

One of the issues with preemies (even near term) can be problems with the way their body processes foods. Jesse has a very slow gastric system. (delayed gastric emptying) so if he's full and you give him one more bite he bursts! (a nice way to say he vomits with wild enthusiam which sucks!) He really is "full". We have to be careful not to overfeed (since he will eat what we make him eat even if he's full because of his nazi like feeing program training).

But the opposite problem can also be a preemie issue...their gastric systems process foods too fast so they don't ever get full. It's called Rapid Gastric Emptying Syndrome or "Dumping". Dumping is normally associated with adults who've had gastric surgery but they are finding some babies have it as well and most likely a preemie. It causes the food to go through the stomach too fast and "dump" into the lower intestine. Milk (in both our case and a rapid system) is a problem because the large fats are difficult to process anyhoo, and even more so for those with gastric issues. Jesse isn't "allergic" to milk...it's more like a poison in his body (or was...this is something he's growing out of). For him, in the early years it caused a low level bacteria to form and that was the cause of his diarrhea. He couldn't even have highly processed milks that are supposed to be ok for kids like this but we learned later that's partly an issue with the IgG problem (hind sight is a biotch!)

Anyhoo, both gastric emptying issues are diagnosed with a couple of simple tests. One is a barrium swallow where they give the child a bottle or meal with barrium in it (Jesse loved it LOL...it was the only time he ever slept well in the first year...I asked if I could buy it by the ton heh heh). Then they do a series of xrays to watch the food travel from the mouth through the system until it comes out (yes it takes a while but they get breaks...it's not terrible...probably one of our easiest tests). Then the other thing they do is an ultrasound after feeding with something laced with a dye. That was less fun because they have to lay still for 45 mins to an hour...we had to drug him. But that one is used to track more in debth how the lower gastric (stomach on down where as the other is more focused on the top end) system is flowing.

Both of these issues tend to be seen in fail to thrive babies...you rarely see a "fat" baby with the problem so if your little dear is retaining all of the calories and gaining weight they won't do the tests, they'll just be incredibly helpful (eyes rolling) and tell you not to feed her or some other nonsense.

Both issues can be corrected surgically if I remember right, but then they might have to be uncorrected later (in our case) so we decided not to put him through it. The positive thing is that normally in a few years the system does grow stronger and starts to do it's thing correctly, some as early as the first year. But there are some steps you can take feeding wise to help them retain the calories they need to grow if you know what the problem is, and in many cases adjust how you feed (for us that means more meals more often than a normal child, but smaller meals overall).

I didn't say in this thread, but one of the reason's we want him to go to this school another year is that he's developmentally fine everywhere except for feeding issues. He still does not have a normal appetite (does not recognize hunger well) and would rather starve than eat. He also didn't learn to eat at the right time so he has difficulty with the process (can't separate foods correctly in his mouth so can only eat one texture at a time). I don't know how big your little doll is, but if I had the knowledge that I have now I'd have known how to deal with his problem and he wouldn't have a feeding issue now :( That kills me as a mom. The school he's in understands his issues and works with him, so there's a benefit to him getting another year of "normal kid" eating to see if we can move him forward before he goes to the big school!

I tell you this only because I am thinking your little one is still pretty little??? If they aren't testing her gastric system get her to a gastroenterologist and have the tests run. They're not hard on the child, and could answer some of your problems so you can address them now verses being stuck with a 4 1/2 year old who can only eat food the consistency of mashed potatoes :o( I don't want anyone in the world to go through what we did with our son. Yes part was because of his rare blood issue, but the other part....we tried soy milk when he was just a few weeks old. The gastroenterologist we were seeing didn't tell us to stay on it for at least ten days (important with formula changes) so when he continued to have issues we took him off the soy and moved onto the next formula. I would happily run that man over with a car if he walked in front of me in a parking lot...(don't tell) :oP

Sorry if I bent your ear too much on that lyfia!!! After our little saga I just have this burning desire to fix all babies with tummy issues so their mommies won't suffer!

I have 2 Thanksgiving babies. DS went to full-day K in the same center he had been in since 3 months o;d. He was reading before K so that was a no-brainer. He is one of the youngest kids in class but has been ID'd as "gifted" (wish he were more organized, then he wouldn't be getting low grades b/c of incomplete or late work!).

DD's bday is just 5 days later but she had never been in daycare, not socialized, late to speak, potty train. We started her in preschool 4's program mid-year after her bday (when she finally potty trained). Kept her in the same program the next year since I didn't think public K and long bus ride would work after only 1 semester of preschool. She really didn't notice much that her friends moved on, b/c we had told her they were going to different school (different town) in the fall. Holding her back really made sense, no way would she have been academically or socially ready for K.

You know your child, I heard Montessori and thought he might be bored with public K after that but since it's essentially a pull-out program and not a separate one it might work. It's not like you're sending him to a different school, and he won't really notice that he's "repeating" K since you will be sending him to a different school for public K.

About the dumping - do the babies always have failure to thrive? My kids seemed to do better on lactose-free milk once we moved them to cow's milk (seems strange) and then when we could change from whole to 2% they were able to tolerate regular milk. Now we drink 1%, DS has always had problems with whole (or fat, sugar from any source) and now DD doesn't seem to be able to tolerate the occasional whole milk any more either (which she had been on a very occasional basis for the past couple of years).

Ds's bowel issues seem to be getting worse - he's 11.5 now an can easily spend 30 min on the throne even when he says he's fine, usually it's one extreme but occasionally the other (he said he didn't rink enough the other day when it was hot). I've been thinking of taking him to dr and asking to check for IBS or something, celiac and Crohn's don't seem to fit his symptoms. Earlier this yr dr had him on Zantac b/c of stomach pain he thought was acid. Should I have dr test DS for the dumping problem?

That poor kid :( it's hard enough to be 11 and with bowel issues...well that's no fun! Kids are difficult as it is.

I'd get him in to see a gastroenterologist as soon as possible. IBD is possible in a child his age (not all believe that is the case but it's getting diagnosed more often now than it was ten years ago). If he's had bowel problems all his life, something is out of balance or just plain wrong with his system.

Dumping syndrome (as I know it...and I'm only a layman) is fairly rare unless it's a newborn (and preemie) infant or a person who's had gastric surgery. But it can happen to others, it's just incredibly rare. Failure to thrive or very very very low weight is always associated though. Both the rapid emptying and the slow emptying are digestive interuptions which don't allow the body to absorb nutrients from food correctly. Rapid or dumping gastric issues force the body to push the food out of the stomach prior to digestion. One of the primary symptoms of this is seen easily in the poop....feed you child something "obvious" (ie olives or corn). Rapid gastric issues either happen immediately after eating or within 3 hours of eating a meal. If you see corn or olives floating in the water with the bowel movement in a semi liquid form, you have an issue of undigestion which could be rapid gastric emptying. But that really does almost always go with low weight issues because they just can't get enough from their food to keep them going.

We had an early diagnosis of Chrones and also a celiac. Celiac is easy....go on a celiac diet. Yes it sucks, but do it for your son. ALL OF YOU go on the diet (because some celiac's are so sensative that just being near the food can cause problems through dust etc). Do it for 3 weeks....I mean really commit to it. If your son's issues clear up immediately, keep him on it, but you can consider phasing back in normal foods for yourself. For him, if he's celiac he'll be "cured" by not being exposed and then you just have to adjust to the level of exposure he can handle. It's an easy disease to rule out, if you can get him to cooperate...and I'd guess he probably will if he won't have the embaressing symptoms anymore :o(

Ok so if you've ruled out celiac, get him to a pediatric gastroenterologist. He's beyond issues of prematurity or early childhood but still has chronic bowel problems. There are many reasons that a child can have bowel issues, but it's important to get them under control so that he does not have long term IBD caused by whatever the underlying cause of his current problem is. The test for crohns is a surgical, but not terribly painful or dangerous bioposy. Our son was barely 8lbs when he had his first one for that.

I wouldn't leave this to your normal pediatrician or family doctor. If your insurance requires it ask for a referal to a ped gastro specialist. We played with our ped early in our son's life and he guessed, but really didn't know much about the gastric system. He was part of our overall problem and we fired him early, but not early enough unfortunately.

I'm seeing that with our son we've gone from one extreme to the other with occasional bouts of the one. We used to be 30 explosive dirty diapers a day and now that we fixed that he is dang near constipated (pebbles in his pullups) or when he's sick it goes back to soup. We can immediately put him on his meds and he's leveled back out which saves his little gastric system. Somehow you need to find that balance for your poor guy.

one other issue....our babysitter was diagnosed with severe celiac in her early youth, but they learned later that what she actually had was diabetis. She was borderline and got worse, but they'd always focused on her gastric issues and missed the others. A good gastro doc will check the blood as well, but we're a great example of the best docs in the world missing the clues in the blood, so push for both to be tested just in case (Diabetis is much easier to diagnos than our son's issues so it probably would have been caught early).

As to the milk....normally the milk processing issues are limited to when the child is a baby because that's the primary calorie source (be it mothers milk or formula) of food for the child. Once they start eating normal foods they tend to move away from milk issues (when it's related to gastric emptying specifically). That does not mean it won't bother them, but it's probably just an issue with milk and not a symptom of a gastric emptying issue. Once a child is over one they normally can get through the processing of the milk fats easily unless they're lactose intellorent or allergic.

Ok that being said....for a rapid gastric emptying or slow emptying person there are diets you can try to help them, and they do focus on reducing fat in their diet as well as carbs. Basically you cut out the stuff that's harder for your body to process. You might consider trying an atkins type diet for a few weeks and see if that helps your son's issues...jsut as an experiment prior to seeing a specialist. he has to be willing mind you...but if he is it's worth a try and can't really hurt him.

I'll tell you now, they're not going to take you seriously on the dumping syndrome unless they rule out anything else, but darling....I think there's something else bothering him. He's not FTT he's just miserable with gastric issues. That means he's digesting "ok" (he's absorbing what he needs from his food) but something is causing him problems. Call for the referal, but in the mean time, consider a full celiac diet for the family for a couple weeks (never less than ten days before you give up on anything as it takes that long to get stuff out of the system) or throw him on a high protein diet and see how he does if he avoids carbs. Either way, be sure to log his poohs :) (He's going to hate that). Do they hit right after a meal, within a certain time period, what did he eat at the meal, etc. Look for patterns. Pasta, pain...that's a clue :)

but get the appt with a specialist. It isn't normal to have dietary issues like this and at 11 he's had them too long :( you shouldn't have to push for a referal, but most have to. Docs just don't take this seriously. Our first one didn't until I told him I'd file suit if he didn't refer out....we fired him afterwards, but still, it made me mad we had to get to that point.

OK off to bed....I'l check back tomorrow :)

Thanks igloo. I will make an appt (DS has to have hematocrit done for 7th grade anyway). I mentioned to our old ped about his issues, don't think I told this ped (almost 3 yrs we've been seeing him) that DS was constantly in the bathroom but I did tell him at first and then again when DS was having the acid (?) problem that fat and sugar give him diarrhea. Literally can't do pizza parties (bday, school) b/c the combo of fat/cheese and then too many sweets do him in when he gets home.

DS is getting very private - I really don't know if I can get him to log his "output". He's thin, but not underweight, though I think both kids inherited DH's big (heavy) bones b/c once they were out of infancy (not Buddhas, but thunder thighs) they were slim.

I'll look for celiac diet, though he hasn't had severe problems with flatulence, weight loss, edema and such and does not seem to be troubled by gluten. It's just the diarrhea and what seemed briefly to be lactose intolerance but now looks more like fat and esp. sugar intolerance.

Would diarrhea after eating sugar be a symptom of diabetes? We don't allow much sugar. And he has never had the frequent urination and weight loss I thought were symptoms of that.

:) Sugar is a primary cause of diarrhea, both in it's natural form and in processed foods. The scandle of our world is that we give DS (and have since he was ten months old) diet soda. People's eyes go all buggy and some cluck, then the other busy body's feel the need to tell us what bad parents we are....mind you, we do this to keep him out of the hospital for dehydration, but that never stops a busy body from "helping". (Eyes rolling emoticon) So I am all up on the sugar issue :) If your DS has any issues with diarrhea he needs to avoid sugar like the plague because it will "loosen" him up, obviously not good when he's already loose. That includes fruit juices and any other form of sugar (corn syrup etc). Artifical sweeteners won't have that effect on him.

Gastric symptoms aren't really associated with diabetis though. Diabetis is sort of focused on how the blood uses the sugars that enter the body. Sudden weight loss or gains, mood swings (from high to low as the blood sugar levels change) weakness, normally underweight, stuff like that but not the gastric. I think that's barking up the wrong tree.

He's at an age when he's going to want to be private, and to make that worse he has this embaressing condition. I've been thinking of this for years....DS still can go from totally fine to blow out awful instantly. How horrible for a kid at school! Not to mention my potty training issues if you can imagine! So I've thought about how to help him deal when he's your son's age. There are no good answers are there? It sucks!

I'd get him into that gastroenterologist asap and let them do a work up on him. They'll want some poop samples (stuff he can do in the bathroom in private) and they will likely take blood tests etc. If he's IBD he's going to need meds but man can you imagine how much better his life would be if he could regulate this problem? People with bad gastric processing do have trouble with fats and carbs so pizza can be a killer on their systems! But that just tells you he's got a gastric issue, not what it is.

One thing to help him help the doc is to teach him the poop language :) It's less embaressing for him, and it tells the doctor more. Discuss poops in terms of food. Is it peanut butter consistency, pebbles, pea soup, broth, etc. Gross analogy but all the gastro folks use it because it's easy to relate verses just "loose" stools.

Underweight can be a symptom of a gastric disorder so don't immediately dismiss it. When the body isn't processing food the right way it does not get the nutrients it needs to provide healthy growth (which is why my son is so tiny). It can effect bone growth, weight, brain development (more so with babies) etc so it's important to figure it out. But mostly because long term, whatever it is that is causing his difficulty can cause long term damage to his system.

Good luck dear. I feel for every baby (big or small) who suffers through this hell.