This is the heart of NYC, just off 5th Ave., one of the, shall we say, better areas. Read: Money. An elegant place to stay and probably about 12 blocks from the theater area.

Yes, have stayed at 4S NYC a few times. Fabulously overly expensive. For my money, I would much rather stay at The Hudson. The 4S NY is very stark, as it is an IM Pei design. It is luxurious, but I am not that impressed with that type of luxury. Just feels cold. However, will say I love their ricotta pancakes!

My fav is The Hudson on W. 58th. There's alot going on at the hotel, and the hotel itself is very cool.

I am not so hung up on the Four Seasons brand, but have many friends who are.

I am sure your wife & daughter would love a trip to NY for shopping, shows, sightseeing or whatever. I'd be in the city everyday if I had the time.

I took my two teens to NYC two summers ago. DH didn't think he could get off from work but I was determined to go even if it meant going alone. I was a little nervous at doing it by myself, not sure of the safety, etc. But I really, really wanted to take them, even if it meant going alone. As it turned out, DH was able to go with us, and so the four of us went and we had the most fabulous time. I realized immediately, and throughout the trip, that we would have been COMPLETELY safe on our own. I wouldn't hesitate now to go on my own. We went to all the touristy places -Times Sq., Empire St. Bldg., Central Park, shopping, eating, saw a play, Twin Towers Memorial site, etc. Felt 100% safe the entire time. Was very, very pleased at the level of cleanliness everywhere, police presence at night, etc.

If they are only there a short time, I would recommend a city tour -it's a great way to see the highlights....The FS can recommend a good one.

I'm only 90 minutes from the city and I often take the train into Penn Station. I started when DD was at Columbia and it was a breeze to get up early, hop the train and met her in the city for a day of fun. Neither of us have ever experienced a moment of unease. There are still days - usually a crisp, fall day when I decide in the morning that I'm heading into the city and just take off.

I'll second the city tour. My DD always pooh poohed the idea of taking one of the double decker bus tours - she considered herself a quasi New Yorker so we never did it. But my best friend has done it numerous times with out of towners on their first trip to the city and she has reported that every one of them thoroughly enjoyed it. And most of these visitors were young adults.

We've stayed at the Essex House several times and it's right on Central Park. Their Sunday brunch is wonderful. And then the Plaza (home of Heloise and countless movies) is just around the corner - they must stop there too.

I also like the Pierre. We stayed at the Marriott Marquis twice when we had several shows booked. It's not 5 star but it's right in Times Square and most of the theaters are an easy walk. It's a huge place and bustling with activity. My kids liked that one best. They felt like they were really experiencing the city.

We have not been since 9/11 but I would like to see the memorial. I am not a big city person at all, so not saying I didn't feel safe, but I did feel a bit of unease because it is out of my comfort zone. BUT, have enjoyed visiting there. The only thing I really didn't like was people coming up so often asking for money.

I am not so much into the plays and shopping as seeing the sites. I also recommend a tour - or even more than one! I would suggest a harbor tour. That is really neat. Not sure if the ladies would be interested in Ellis Island? They should be prepared for LOTS of walking in NYC.

I'm sorry - I really didn't answer your original question, don't know anything about the 4 seasons.

tina

faron - I can just imagine the souvenirs your DD will bring back with her. Oh just think of all the high end shoe stores in the city - it can bring tears to your eyes! LOL

MC-
How DARE you plant THAT thought in my head....Oh woe is me...LOL!!

Thanks everyone!! All this feedback/advice is SO nice of you!
I appreciate the Hotel & Theatre advice.

Is it better to take a cab to a Broadway show?!?!
Do some Hotels run shuttle-vans?!

Faron

I live less than 2 hours away drive time so I've gone into the city to shop and have stayed over a few times but not at the 4S. I don't like the subway so I usually take cabs to get around. It's difficult to catch one after 4 because of shift changes and then rush hour. Best to stand by a hotel or department store where someone is likely to get dropped off and grab it. After rush hour it's okay. Unless it's raining. LOL. When we're staying over for dinner, I usually check out the reviews of restaurants in advance and book ahead. You can sometimes get an early reservation at the last minute at a popular place. There are some nice little restaurants in the Village and you get to see a different part of the city.

I think there are some tour packages you can buy where you can hop on and off the tour buses at the various sites. I've heard an advance ticket to the Empire State Bldg. saves you from standing in a long line. My daughter lived in the city one summer and went to the Empire State Bldg. late in the evening and there were no crowds. Don't take the virtual ( helicopter ?) tour that they peddle outside the Empire State Building because it's a rip off.

The Metropolitan Museum is something to see. Even if you just stop in for lunch, you'll wander through the halls. The ferry to and from the Statue of Liberty is a nice ride.

I'm not a big fan of the Times Square area, but I do get a kick driving through it and seeing all the neon and crowds. Lots of energy there for the young people but it's not for me. I thought the shops were kind of tacky, at least the ones I passed walking to the bus terminal.

When are they planning of going?

You can also make pre-theater dinner reservations at restaurants near the theater. That way you don't have to worry about eating and then getting to the theater on time. We've had lots of really good meals within walking distance of the shows.

faron - a pair of shoes is a bargain compared to what they could drop in Tiffany's or Hary Winston's. But they must visit those too if they have time. Macy's Herald Square is an entire block of shopping on 10 floors and there's also Bergdorf, Barney's, Saks, Bloomingdales's, Lord and Taylor.

Except for Macy's I seldom purchase anything at the tonier shoppes. But they are fun to wander through. There's so much to see and do in the city that I don't want to waste time shopping for something that I can pick up at home.

There are quite a few really nice vintage shops where you can find designer clothes in great condition (some still have original tags).

How long might they stay?

Haven't stayed anyplace that runs shuttle buses to the theatre district. Maybe it would be a good idea for your DW & DD to stay at a place like Marriott Marquis (stayed there over 20 yrs ago, so it may not be as nice now as it was back then) which is very close to most theatres as well as a few very good restaurants. My point is that if your girls are thinking about taking in a few shows, they could stay somewhere much closer. Other option would be to cab it everywhere if walking isn't an option for them. We usually walk everyplace, rarely cab it unless it's very late, raining and I am in a pair of heels. During the day we take advantage of getting the exercise and enjoy walking around the different neighborhoods. If it starts to rain, we just duck into a place to get something to drink/eat till the weather lets up. Soho is a great area for shopping, but isn't very close to the theatre district.

As much as you liked the Four Seasons in Hawaii, I don't think it will have the same appeal at the NYC location. It is sooo overpriced for the accommodations. The hotel options in the city are endless, with pricing that is far more reasonable, and much nicer hotels. Really, in the city, you spend such a small amount of time in the hotel room, i.e.; sleep and shower. I would imagine that the majority of their time would be spent sightseeing, seeing a show, shopping, or just roaming around checking out the different neighborhoods.

I have a DD the same age as yours, so I have to ask where does your DD wear the CL or similarly priced high heeled shoes? My own DD who is a complete fashionista would not have much occasion to wear CL or other similarly priced shoe. She spends alot of time in NYC doing the club scene, and has just returned from her spring semester in Florence, where the girls went out to clubs most every night. Also, if I gave her $500 for shoes, she definitely wouldn't spend it all on one pair of shoes. Rather would buy a couple of dresses and a nice pair of shoes, but at a different price point. lol Another problem for my DD is her height. At 5'10", she feels very uncomfortable towering over everyone else she is with if she were to wear 4"-5" heels. Not being snarky, but have been dying to ask you where your daughter goes that she has an opportunity to wear the CL-type shoes? I don't know much about Fargo, maybe you have a really happening club scene for their age group? Also, do your DD's friends all wear CL-priced shoes? My own DD's friends aren't in a financial position to spend that kind of money on a pair of shoes, as they are all poor college students with part time jobs. I know for sure that their parents aren't going to shell out that kind of money for shoes either, and they are not even close to indigent. So, please indulge my curiousity.

Recently celebrated a friends birthday at Frankie and Johnnies Steak House, if I remember correctly it's located on 37th and 6th. We walked from Penn Station It was fantastic. It may be a good place for your DD's birthday dinner. The steaks are so large they can be shared.

I stayed at the Hudson overnight which was work related. It's a very cool and interesting place. I drove past it several times before I realized it was my destination. Thought it was a night club. Wasn't to far off since it has one. Your daughter will probably love it. Decor is very different.

Loehmann's and Daffy's may be of some interest to them for designer clothes at steep discounts. ABC Carpet and Home may be another spot, if you wife is interested in seeing some fabulous home furnishings.

Metropolitan Museum is a must as is the tour of Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty. Just so much to do there.

Uffda!

All of you have been so gracious with your time & advice!!
I REALLY appreciate it!
It's very interesting to hear your opinions/observations about Hotels & activities.

DD has a college break in early Oct....that's when they'd go.

WIP-
Interesting question(s) you have!
I'll actually shed some light on PART of the matter...

It may shock you to know that our DD isn't a "clubber", etc.! Kind of a "Homebody" actually! She wears usually the nicer Flats she has to class, etc. If they go to a play in Mpls., she'll take the nicer heels, etc.
She doesn't seem to mind "towering" over people though. She half grew up with Figure-skates on...

I actually wish She'd get out more!
Kind of like her parents I guess...quieter (maybe even boring!) people!

If we go to a nicer restaurant, the heels MAY come out...LOL!

I've probably said it b4 here, but she's not a show-off. Just a tall, quiet, very intelligent young Lady who loves nicer things. We're SO proud of Her!
Unlike ME....there hasn't been a time where She HASN'T been on the Honor-Roll or Dean's List.
These things (Shoes/Swarovski collection) mean the world to her, and She KNOWS she's very fortunate to have what she does. Some of them came (in part or full) from her 90+ y/o Gramma for Special-Occasions, etc.

Faron
....and now back to "All things NY"!!!

October is the best time for a visit. That's my favorite. The city can be disgustingly hot in August but in the fall it just hums. It's so invigorating to walk along the streets on a crisp, fall day. December is fun too when all the holiday lights are on and the shoppers are out.

I must have missed the Swarovski interest - but there must be at least 8 boutiques in the city. While my DD was in college in the city she would buy me one of the teeniest crystals as an ornament for the small christmas tree that I only decorated with with glass ornaments.

Oh I hope she takes her shoes with her on the trip. She'll have lots of opportunities to wear them. It is rather sad though that many people no longer 'dress' for the theater. Oh you'll still see ladies in their minks but I just took a friend to see Phantom (my 4th time - it's the one everyone asks to see) and the people standing in line could have been lined up for a movie at the neighborhood cinema.

I've also found the hotel concierge to be very helpful at suggesting (and making reservations) for restaurants or offering sigh seeing advice.

MC-
Your "Swarovski"-tree reference made me laugh...!

We've got one as well!

DW & DD bought a small white ~2+' tall "Tabletop" a few years ago. They use a blue mini-light string with white-wires. Her collector Christmas Swarovski-Bear's hang on it. It's very pretty!
(I shudder when I think of the $$$$$ in the main Swarovski curio they have....Uffda)

Your point on "VERY casual dress" nowadays is telling...
I miss the days when people looked forward to dressing-up for social occasions.

Aaahhhhh welll...maybe "Dressing-up" will come back in style?!?!?!

Checked-out a couple NY guidebooks at Library this AM. One is just a map-book though. Is there a good Frommer's/Fodor's one?

Faron

Eating in the Broadway area, or within walking distance is a fabulous idea;
let's face it, everyone's looking for cabs at the same time in NYC so it can be next to impossible to get to the theater on time if you cut it too close.

Shoes that you can walk around in all day are a must.

Thanks faron. I think we have very similar kids. Just thought yours might be going to some very upscale places with all of the CL shoes. Mine won't wear 4" heels, feels more comfortable in lower ones due to her height. And, I highly doubt her parents are ---boring---! lol

As far as dressing up, it makes me cringe when we go to a really nice place and some dumba$$ is dressed like she/he's weeded the garden. Yes, I want to know when are people going to dress appropriately? We still do, I will not dress like a farmer when attending events that I feel require a bit of dress up.

Yes, tell DD to take her shoes for shows and dinner. Definitely will need to cab it tho when in heels.

WIP-
We may be twins....
I LOVED your line..."some dumbass dressed liked they weeded the garden." THAT IS CLASSIC!!!!
It's SO true!!

We grew up farming, but whenever we headed out to church or some gathering, we had to look good or else....
Dad had nice Hart/Schafner&Marx suits at the time (early-mid 70's). More money in farming then too...he traded for a new BLACK Lincoln Town-Car every 2 yrs. G*D I loved those BIG boats!

I'M CRUSHED!!
DW doesn't want to stay @ the FS...:-(
Too far away from the plays/Central-Park/action I guess?!?!
I'll have to find out her thoughts.

Faron

This same topic recently posted on the Kitchen Table forum. There were some suggestions there that might interest you since the poster is also taking young adults.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen forum

I've stayed at the Hyatt before..very nice, no complaints and the location was great.

We love to stay at the Michelangelo on the corner of 52nd(?) and 7th. It's a beautiful boutique hotel with a wonderful location that is very convenient to the theaters and not far from Rockefeller Center and 5th Avenue shopping. I've taken a trip every year for the past three years with my DD and we've stayed at the Hilton and Doubletree Suites. This year we stayed at the Michelangelo and it was her favorite by far. I'm not good at including links, but if you google it, I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised!

I hope this works...

Here is a link that might be useful: Michelangelo

I was also going to suggest the Michelangelo. Big, comfortable, clean rooms with great staff....

ML

And very expensive!

I should have added an important piece of information as to the room rates at The Michelangelo. We actually paid less at The Michelangelo for a spacious two king room than we were quoted for some of the other hotels in the area that advertise two doubles in their rooms. Also, if you book through an agent, you can benefit from their ability to negotiate a better rate.

Before you make a reservation at ANY hotel, I recommend checking the Bedbug Registry online. Bedbug bites are not stylish!

I remember the W hotel as being very young and hip. Not sure of what your daughter's interests are--can you tell us more? What about your wife's interests? The reason I am asking is that my fashionista cousin once asked me to put together a NYC intinerary for her and what she didn't realize is that the NYC area has so much that I could send her on a 5-day, 5 ZOO tour!

You can look at the Time Out New York website for some ideas on what to do in the city.

Here is a link that might be useful: Time Out New York website

Uffda!

There's a LOT to absorb here.
All of you are so wonderful with your time and advice!

DW and I have to have secret little conversations about this from time-to-time lately!
Hadn't thought yet about a T-A for this....although we obviously used one for Hawaii.
(Jeeeeezzz....that's already 2 yrs. ago...sniff!)

Faron

Faron - since your DW and DD don't want to stay at 4S, take a look at The Hudson Hotel. I think it may definitely peak the interest of your DW & DD. It is a very happening, chic place. A place where you are apt to run into a celebrity or two during your stay. The Hudson has been used for more than a few movies as well as an episode of the S&ATC HBO series and Gossip Girl. While they do not advertise, the hotel is always full. Only in the middle of the hot summer when everyone on the island of Manhattan has escaped to the Hamptons will you find an available room at the last minute.

I think it may be just the place to celebrate a 21st birthday in style.

Anyhoo, I am attaching a link. Check it out with your DW. It is a bit pricey, but I try to get there at least once a year. I have nothing to do with The Hudson, make no money by endorsing them, just an obsession to go back as often as I can do so. In fact, after looking at their website, I do think my own DD's 21st might be celebrated there. I think the entire vibe of The Hudson is perfect for celebrating a 21st birthday.

The Hudson is situated directly across the street from the Time Warner Center, which houses the Shops at Columbus Circle, and a short walk from Central Park. You could walk down W. 58th and not even know that it is a hotel unless you've had the good fortune of a stay. However, behind the long neon light and arborvitae standing in urns, lies a gem!

Can't wait to hear about your final plans for the celebration of your DD's 21st birthday.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Hudson Hotel

If your daughter likes art and museums, most of the museums in New York have a free night--and that's when all the people your daughter's age go. I've been to quite a few and the crowd is always young and funky. The museums' restaurants serve cocktails on those nights and it's a real scene.

Here is a link that might be useful: Free Fridays at MOMA

I've stayed at the Empire too, very nice, it's a boutique hotel across from the Lincoln Center. Felt luxurious.