With my sourdough starter I make a Levain the night before using 2 ounces of starter , 1/4 cup of water and one cup of flour. For a Biga, I use two ounces of starter, one cup of water and 1 1/2 cups of flour.

When I feed my starter I take 6 ounces of starter and feed it with 3 ounces of water and 3 ounces of flour. The flour and water together total the amount of starter. So if I was feeding 4 ounces of starter I would use 2 ounces of water and 2 ounces of flour. I use a starter that was developed with just rye flour and water. No additives.

Ann

Hi - I'm a new sourdough bread beginner also. I appreciate your confusion.

I have a book that I found most helpful - and just now found that Amazon has a copy for about $3.50 or so. It covers a lot of different recipes for bread making. After much searching the net, etc. for many months (and with quite a few setbacks in my bread making efforts), I think I'm finally getting results.

The book is great for the beginner, and covers a lot of aspects of dough recipes - including bread, rolls, doughnuts, waffles, etc. It is very easy to understand. There are many methods, and I'm sure this is only one of them, but I highly recommend it to help understand the principals.

The name is the Cornell Bread Book by Clive and Jeanette McCay. My copy was last revised in 1973 - there may be new ideas out there, but I still find it very informative for me. Most importantly it gives step-by-step directions. My mother-in-law bequeated this book to me some years ago, when she died. I am not soliciting it in anyway.

Bejay

It would be helpful to newbies to sourdough if everyone agreed on *one* way to make a starter, feed it, and use it to make a loaf of sourdough bread. But I've seen 40-11 billion recipes on the care, feeding, and use of starter. I think it is very confusing to anyone just starting out.

"After much searching the net, etc. for many months (and with quite a few setbacks in my bread making efforts), I think I'm finally getting results."

Yes, find a method that makes sense to you, keep trying that method until you get some fairly good results, then keep working to perfect that method. Or, try another recipe and method if the first one or two or ten don't work for you. Eventually you will hit on a method/recipe that works for you!

Thanks for the feedback and reassurance that it's not just me being confused!

I just ordered the book you talked about Bejay on Amazon. Can't beat the price - $8. It may turn out to be the book I understand. I brought several books home from the library but remain confused about most concepts.

Going back to my original question, does it not matter how much starter you add to flour and water? Seems like there should be some sort of chart to give you guidance.

The instructions I find all say "put your sponge in a bowl and add 1 cup of flour and 1 cup of water." My question is how much starter are they talking about. My starter is about 2/3 of a cup now."

Thanks
Ginny

If you put all your starter in the bowl to make your sponge, then you won't have any starter remaining for the next time you want to make bread.

The method I use calls for 1 cup of starter after it has been left to sit at room temp, fed, and let set to expand for 2-4 hours mixed with the rest of the recipe ingredients. Most recipes that I have seen or used called for 1 cup starter.

After I remove the one cup of starter from my jar, I then feed the starter with 1/4 cup flour and 1/4 cup water, let it sit at room temp for 2-4 hours to expand and then, if needed, I feed it again the same amounts of flour and water and let it sit out again for 2-4 hours. Then I feed it again if I need to further increase the amount of starter, then let it sit out again to expand for 2-4 hours. Or, if I have enough starter (say 3/4 to 1 cup) I go ahead and store it in the fridge until the next time I want to bake bread and then I repeat the process all over again.

This is just the method I use - after years of trying to make starters and make sourdough bread, I ordered (free) the 1847 Oregon Trail culture from Friend's of Carl Griffith on the web. And a cyber friend sent me some of her dried Sourdough Jack starter last year, so now I keep the two of them going.

Teresa

Maybe it would help if you told us what starter you are using. As Teresa mentioned there are a number of different recipes for starters.

I use the one from Amy's Bread Cookbook. Started from scratch using just water and rye flour. Once you get it going it is very active. I try to feed my starter and use it at least once every 10 days.

If you are interested here is the recipe.

Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table

Sourdough starter - Amy's bread
===============================

copied from: http://countrylife.net/pages/recipes/672.html

Amy Scherber's Sourdough Starter

RYE STARTER
From AMY'S BREAD, copyrighted.

Amy's bread

This starter is begun with rye flour because rye just LOVES to ferment and is an easier starter to get going than a wheat starter. When I first made it, it had a bubble or two within a couple hours.

The procedure is to start it with rye flour, then transform it by changing what you feed it. The original rye will dilute to nothing over time and you'll end up with a white flour (or whatever other grain you choose, it could be whole wheat or pumpermickel, or you could leave it as a rye starter) and water based starter, but it had the advantage of beginning it's life from highly fermentable rye flour.

Start it with organic rye flour and spring water. Once you have it going well you can switch to all-purpose white (or other) flour as you choose. The use of spring water is recommended for maintenance, however, as tap water may contain elements (such as chlorine) which may be detrimental to the health of your starter. I also recommend that you use a container that you can mark the volume levels of starter each time, so that you will know when it has doubled. Use a marking pen or tape or any other means to indicate on the container the starter levels each time you feed.

Phase 1 - Combine 2 oz organic rye flour (room temp) with 4 oz spring water in a clear container. The batter should be about the consistency of very thick pancake batter, add more water or flour if necessary. Cover & let it sit for 36 - 48 hours at 75 - 77 degrees (a little cooler is okay but over 80 you will incubate the wrong kind of bacteria and your culture will have an unpleasant bitter taste). You should start to see tiny bubbles forming after about 24 hours. By the time it has doubled, there will be a noticeable network of small bubbles throughout the batter & it will be foaming & bubbling on top. (If the batter has not doubled within 48 hours, feed with 2 oz water & 2 oz flour (add more of either if necessary for the consistency) and let it sit another 24 hours or until you see some definite activity.)

Phase 2 - Stir the culture down, notice how soupy it's become. The batter should have a noticeable sour smell & a mildly tangy taste at this point. Add 2 oz water & 2 oz flour and stir vigorously until well-combined. Let it sit for 12 hours. It should be showing a fair amount of activity at this point. You should see lots of foaming & bubbling through the sides as well as on the top. Don't be concerned if the culture deflates & loses volume. This means the yeast has exhausted its food supply, but it will continue to increase in acidity. Don't worry if your culture isn't dramatically active yet. As long as there is some noticeable activity going on and the mixture smells & tastes sour, you're on the right track.

Phase 3 - The culture should now have a pronounced, sour, fruity taste and smell, it should not taste musty or bitter (if it does, discard and start again, paying close attention to the temp of the culture at all times). Now you can start "transforming" it into a white (or other) flour based starter. Use 6 oz of the starter, add 3 oz water & 3 oz flour, stir vigorously. Let it sit for 12 hrs at 75 - 77 degrees F.

Refresh it again, setting up a maintenance level of 12 oz of starter. This will be your "mother" starter that you use to build the sourdough starters/sponges needed in individual recipes.

Each time you take part of the mother out to build a starter, you must refresh it with equal weights of flour and water to bring it back up to its maintenance level.

To maintain - Use 6 oz of the mother culture (discard the rest), add 3 oz water & 3 oz flour, stir vigorously, let it sit at room temp until doubled in volume.

A strong mother will double in 8-12 hours. If yours doesn't do that, let it continue to sit out until it has a nice tangy taste and smell; discard all but 6 oz and repeat this procedure. Repeat this procedure as many times as necessary until the mother doubles within 8-12 hrs. It may take several days. Don't get discouraged, it's worth the effort.

To use for recipes - Combine 1/2 c (5 oz) Mother from the refrigerator, add 3 oz flour and 2.5 oz warm water (85 - 90 degrees). The mixture will be stiffer than the mother. Let it sit, covered, until doubled in volume (if it doesn't do so go back to maintenance procedure). When the starter has doubled, it is ready to use in a recipe. Measure the amount needed and discard any that remains.

Thanks again to all of you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Ann, the starter I am using is from "Friend's of Carl Griffith" and I started feeding it Jan 23rd.

We had our first loaf last night and unfortunately I was disappointed. It looked fine but was lacking in WOW flavor. The texture and crust was good.

The recipe I used was labeled "My First Sourdough Bread." It was all white flour and did not require kneading. It did have a 5 hour rise period and another 2 1 1/2 hour rise. It was baked in a large pyrex bowl.

Next time I'll try a recipe that involves kneading and probably add a bit of another type of flour.

I know that flavor continues to develop in the starter over time so will be patient.

I am still confused as to the amount of starter, flour and water that should be used to feed it. From the examples you've given I guess the answer is - use a reasonable amount of your starter (throw the rest away) and add equal amounts of flour and water to equal the amount of the starter. It's a simple concept as I write it, but sometimes those are the most difficult for me.

Thanks again to all and have a great day!!

Ginny

Thanks again to all of you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Ann, the starter I am using is from "Friend's of Carl Griffith" and I started feeding it Jan 23rd.

We had our first loaf last night and unfortunately I was disappointed. It looked fine but was lacking in WOW flavor. The texture and crust was good.

The recipe I used was labeled "My First Sourdough Bread." It was all white flour and did not require kneading. It did have a 5 hour rise period and another 2 1 1/2 hour rise. It was baked in a large pyrex bowl.

Next time I'll try a recipe that involves kneading and probably add a bit of another type of flour.

I know that flavor continues to develop in the starter over time so will be patient.

I am still confused as to the amount of starter, flour and water that should be used to feed it. From the examples you've given I guess the answer is - use a reasonable amount of your starter (throw the rest away) and add equal amounts of flour and water to equal the amount of the starter. It's a simple concept as I write it, but sometimes those are the most difficult for me.

Thanks again to all and have a great day!!

Ginny

Here is a good sourdough bread recipe that I have made many times:

Alaskan Sourdough Bread full recipe makes 4 large free-form loaves
1 cup sourdough starter  at room temp, which has been fed, and left to expand for about 4 hours
4 TB melted lard, shortening or vegetable oil
1 t. baking soda
8 cups bread flour (approximately)
2 ½ cups warm water
½ cup sugar
1 TB salt
The night before, combine the starter, all the water, and 3 cups flour (1 1/2c. flour if making half the recipe) in a large bowl, cover and place in a warm, draft free place.

The next morning add the other ingredients and knead until smooth and elastic. Place in a greased bowl, cover and let rise until doubled. Knead down again, and shape into free-form long loaves or put in loaf pans. Let rise until doubled, covered. Slash the tops of the loaves. Bake at 375 for about an hour until done. Turn out on racks, cover with a towel and let cool.

If you want to make this recipe with whole-wheat flour, you may need to add 1 pkg. dry yeast (2 t. bulk instant yeast) when you first mix the starter, water, and 3 cups flour.

FWIW, I don't ever throw away starter. I keep the starter in a pint glass canning jar and usually have 1 cup to 1 2/3 cup starter in the jar. I feed the starter with 1/4 cup flour and 1/4 cup water. This starter is supposed to be the consistency of pancake batter. When the glass jar starts looking really bad, I pour the starter into a clean jar and wash to previous jar really well.

There is a lot of speculation about the sourness of bread. One idea is every once in awhile use dark rye flour to feed the starter or some in the bread dough. Another is to let it rise at a lower temperature (60?) so it rises longer and gives the bacteria a longer time to do their work. Some feel that making the starter more firm (adding more flour than water when feeding it) results in a more sour taste. DonÂt expect your starter to ever taste as sour as commercial sourdough bread  they add things to it to get that really sour taste.

Ginny, I guess all starters are different. The one that I have has a very pleasant, but a very definite sour dough smell. As Amy's Bread recipe suggests, I keep two versions on the go. One that is maintained with white flour and the other with rye flour.

I store them in the fridge. When I want to make bread, I remove 2 ounces of the starter and either make a levain or a biga. Then I take the remaining starter and measure out 6 ounces into a clean container, feed it with 3 ounces of flour and three ounces of spring water , stir well, put the lid on and leave it on the counter overnight to develop. Depending on how warm the house is, the starter has usually doubled by morning and it goes back in the fridge and the biga or the levain get used to make bread.

I start this process last night and this morning my Levain looked like this:

It had more than doubled. Just starter, flour and water.

and this is what the fed "Mother" looked like:

I added the levain to 9 cups of flour and a teaspoon of yeast, water, salt and it was kneaded in my magic mill machine. If I had been using just 4 or 5 cups of flour I wouldn't have added any yeast. The dough is in the fridge for a slow cold rise. I'll probably bake bread tomorrow. This starter,especially the one maintained with the rye flour has a very pronounced sourdough flavour, just like one that you would buy from a good bakery. The longer you allow the bread to develop, the stronger the flavour.

Your starter and levain look great, Ann!

Just as an aside: I finally was able to get some rye flour at a food co-op in Greensboro and added some to my Sourdough Jack starter. When I went to store it in the fridge, I took a good whiff and was surprised so smell a much stronger sour-y aroma to the starter. So now I think I want to "spin off" a portion of the starter and keep it maintained with rye flour only. I can feed, discard or bake the current Jack starter and get it back to its plain white flour state over time.

One point should be made for the sake of new bakers:
Be aware that your starter will expand after being fed, so you want your jar or bowl to have enough headroom to allow for this expansion. I have on occasion worried about the starter overflowing the container and then I set the jar of starter in a bowl or on a plate to contain any overflow that happened when I was not around. It hasn't happened yet, but I don't want to take the chance of having a mess on my hands when I get home from work - or worse, having the pup sick from lapping up starter!

Teresa, yup, the rye flour starter has a much more pronounced sour aroma. I prefer the white flour starter. What is nice about keeping two or three starters on the go is that you can change them back and forth depending on which flour you feed them with. Sometimes I will feed the white flour starter with a few tablespoons of rye. If I'm making the sourdough bread for Matthew I make it with the rye. He loves a strong sourdough flavour.

Last night just before I went to bed I made a biga with 2 ounces of the starter that I had fed the night before. This is what it looked like at 5:00 this morning.

I have a sourdough bagel dough rising.

Ann

Boy, I'm sure glad you're still talking about starters because I'm still very confused. I need help! I have a perfectly good starter in my fridge right now and I've followed the bread baking recipe & directions that came with it for at least four loaves of bread. They came out fine, so I don't believe there's anything wrong with the starter itself. I'm confused about other things. Here are my questions:

Feeding a starter? -- When I take the cold starter out of the fridge, I bring it to room temperature. Then I remove a cup of it and discard; I replenish the starter with 1/2 cup each of flour & water and let this new mixture sit for several hours to overnight. This new mixture should bubble & almost double in size. Is that right?

Making a sponge? -- I use the newly replenished or fed starter to make a sponge. I use a cup of the fed starter and add a given amount of flour & water (following my recipe) to create the sponge. I let this combo sit for several hours to overnight. It should be bubbly and have a strong sour odor. Is that procedure correct?

Proofing the dough? -- In the directions that came with my starter and also in other recipes, I've seen instructions to shape the loaves immediately after kneading and let them rise only once in the fridge for several hours or overnight. (With other breads, I normally shape the loaves after the first rise and then let them rise again.) Is this one, super long rise better for sourdough breads? Is there a problem with letting the dough rise first, shaping, and then having a 2nd rise?

Thanks for your help!

Shambo, I think that Teresa mentioned above "don't throw any starter away". The cup that you are discarding could also be fed and left to develop overnight.

As long as I have fed my starter within the week, I take it right out of the fridge and use 2 ounces of it to make a biga or a levain. I guess the biga/levain is kind of like feeding the starter too. If you look at the pictures above you will see that both the levain and the bigas are quite active. What is left is then fed with equal amounts of flour and spring water and left out overnight to double and then refrigerated.

I let the dough rise once or twice, depending on what I am making before shaping the loaves.

I made up a large batch of dough yesterday and divided it into two containers to rise slowly in the fridge. I took one of them out about an hour ago and when it comes to room temperature I'll make a couple of loaves of bread this afternoon. The other dough will probably get baked tomorrow and because it will be another day older the sourdough flavour will be more pronounced.

Ann

Shambo, when I make my sourdough breads, I take the jar of starter from the fridge, let it come up to room temperature, feed it with flour and water (1/4 to 1/2 cup of each), let it sit to expand for 2-4 hours, remove one cup of the fed and expanded starter, make my recipe (usually not involving a sponge/biga/levain), and refrigerate the unused starter until the next time I want to make bread.

You see it is a different method from Ann's biga, but both methods work fine to produce great bread, just in different ways. I suggest you try both methods to see which one works best for you. I'm sorry for you and all the others that are confused about the methods to maintain and bake with sourdough starter, but there are probably as many methods as there are bakers.

To my thinking, throwing away part of your starter is just wasteful. JMO
Teresa

Thanks for your replies. I think I get the idea about working with the starter. And it sounds like it's not absolutely necessary to shape the loaves before any rising has taken place. My real concern was that I'm so used to the kneading -- proofing -- shaping -- and final rising system, that I was sure I'd just automatically go ahead and do it that way. Sort of like being on auto-pilot. I just wanted to make sure that following that method wasn't a no-no for sourdough breads.

I also wondered about the instructions to discard starter before replenishing it. It sounded kind of wasteful to me too. Thanks for the help. It does get confusing for a beginner. There's a plethora of information out there, but so many differences in techniques, methods, and terminology.

I am too, new to sourdough bread making. I enjoy seeing the pictures posted because they really help me to understand how things suppose to look like. But I am definitely not ready to make my sourdough bread because I am totally confused.

I use a book called "Making the Best of Basics". I followed the instructions and made the starter two days ago.

The starter went very well at first, went up to 2 - 3 times in volume in less than 24 hours but before I could put it in the fridge, it came back down. I didn't have time to start the sponge so I put the starter in the fridge anyway.

Last night, I decided to try out the starter. I took the starter out from the fridge and found the water (whey?) separated from the flour which looked like a very wet stretchy dough. I stirred everything together and scooped one cup to make my sponge.

I put one cup of my whole wheat starter, 2 cups of whole wheat flour and 2 cups of warm water together in a large glass bowl. Covered with plastic wrap then a towel then left it in the kitchen overnight. I expected the sponge to expand by the morning but to my surprise, it looked pretty much the same as last night. I did see bubbles though. Based on all the articles I've read, the sponge supposed to expand but mine didn't. Once again the whey was separated from the sponge.

My biggest questions are, should my sponge rise at all? If it didn't rise does this mean my sponge has failed? Also, what do I do with the whey that had separated from the sponge? Do I throw it out or should I stir it back in?

This is a very interesting conversation going on. I have never made ANY type of home made bread. I love sourdough bread and would like to give it a try. Right now I have a master batch of ABin5 in my frig. I made it 2 days ago from a recipe off of the internet. Can any of this bread dough be used in sourdough bread making?
Another question if you don't mind, can the Amish bread starter be used as sourdough starter? I am talikng about the starter that takes 10 days to feed with water, flour & sugar. Then you bake a bread using some type of instant pudding mix and other ingredients. I know thats probably a stretch, but I thought I'd ask.
Thanks
Dawn

Dawn, your Amish bread starter is probably too sweet for making regular sourdough bread. If you want to experiment with it, just take out 1/4 to 1/2 cup and let it sit at room temp for a couple of hours, then feed it with 1/4 cup water and 1/4 cup flour. See if it expands any during the next 4 hours or overnight. Then you can feed it again with 1/4 cup flour and 1/4 cup water. Let it sit again overnight, then feed it again, etc. until you have about a cup of starter. Then find a sourdough recipe that calls for 1 cup starter to make the bread and follow that recipe. Let us know the results. Just don't add any more sugar to the Amish starter as you build up the amount with feeding it.

Allthetrainer, did you makeyour starter using yeast. If so, it may be that it hasn't had enough time or feedings to develop the natural "beasties" from the environment and the yeast may have been depleted. If you started trying to catch wild ones in your area it could be that they are still weak and couldn't sustain long enough. Just a thought.

You can obtain a tried and true starter by contacting Friends of Carl for a 200 year old starter for the price of a postage stamp, or purchase one from the many sites offering, such as King Arthur, Sourdough home, Breadtopia (good videos). It is confusing. I think everyone has their own favorites. What I've learned is that there are so many ways, just have to find the one that suits you.

Thank you teresa for the reply. I was kind of thinking the sugar might be too much. I will give your idea a try sometime. Right now the Amish friendship starter is in my freezer.
I still have the artsin bread dough in my frig to work with, so I guess I'll get started on it first.
Dawn

Terrapots, Yes, the book called for active dry yeast to make the starter.

By the way, I did use the sponge to make bread. I put all the whey (plus some extra water) in when making the two loaves of bread. They turned out fine but like what you said it didn't have enough time for that unique sourdough flavor to develop.

I made another loaf a week later. The first three loaves of bread came out all right. I kept feeding the starter once every few days. Two days ago I tried to make more bread but this time the dough didn't rise as much as it should. So the loaves were smaller than the first few.

I started cultivating wild yeast by using wheat flour and pineapple juice last week. It has been 4 days but so far I only see bubbles but no expansion. I live in Canada and this is the coldest time of the year so I may have to feed it longer to see any significant change.

I will continue to use the active dry yeast starter until the wild yeast starter is ready.

For the wild yeast starter, I used 2 tablespoons of wheat four and 2 tablespoons of pineapple juice, for three days, to make a thick mixture. The forth day (today), instead of discarding half of the starter, I kept it in a separate bowl. Now, I have one white flour starter and one whole wheat start going at the same time. I am interested to see if different types of flour will make any difference.

I am also interested in getting starter from Friends of Carl. Where can I find contact information?

Thanks in advance!

Here you go Al, here is the link for Carl's Starter. I've been meaning to send for some and your post spurred me on. When I went to get the link for you I made out My envelopes and it will be in the mail tomorrow. Thanks.. smiles.

Al, I have made the pineapple starter in the past and it did very well for me. If you want to make a "macho" starter, try adding some rye flour! Starters love rye flour! If you can get fresh stone-ground rye flour, that is even better. You do not have to make rye bread with a rye starter, but can use it for any recipe. The rye really beefs up the starter in my experience.

Teresa

Thanks coconut-nj! Now I have to find some US money.

Teresa, I like the smell of the pineapple starter. Obviously it didn't get fermented enough because it still smelled like pineapple. My son thought it was ready to eat! LOL Today is day five of my pineapple starter but just a few bubbles here and there, no sign of rising at all. I will go to the health food store to get some whole rye to make fresh rye flour. Do I still apply the same 1:1:1 rule when using rye flour?

Not sure what the 1:1:1 rule is, but you add equal parts rye flour and water to the starter, whether it is a pineapple starter, grape starter, Carl's, or any other sourdough starter.

Teresa

Hi Gals,
It's me again, Ginny. It's fun to see how my original question has grown into this great dialogue.

I am still perplexed about one thing in particular. What are the proportions of starter to flour to water generally speaking? All the things I read say "add 2 oz flour and 2 oz water, or 4 oz etc.,.......to your starter.: They do not say how much starter. This is in regards to feeding it.

Right now I have 4 oz on the counter having used some tonight with cornbread (which wasn't great.) For the past two months - I know I'm nuts- I've been following Carl's suggestion and to 2 oz starter adding 3 oz water and 4 oz flour. That ends up being about 2/3 of a cup once you stir it down the next morning.

I've also tried two recipes that weren't WOW - they were both totally white flour. I will keep trying but am a bit disappointed the breads had so little flavor.

Again, pleased to see this talk continuing.

Ginny

There is the camp of people who are very precise about exactly what percentage of starter is fed exacts amount of flour and water and then there is the camp of people like me that keep "some" starter in a jar (approx. 1 cup) and feed it small amounts (1/4 cup each) of flour and water, let it sit to grow and multiply (expand), then take out 1 cup to make their bread recipe.

The important point that I try to get across is that you do not take 2 TB of starter and add 1 cup each water and flour to it. You need to build the starter back up if you have let the amount dwindle down. So you take your 2 TB of starter left in your jar and add maybe 1/2 TB each flour and water, let it sit several hours or overnight then feed it again with say 1 TB each flour and water. Keep repeating the feeding over several days until you have well over 1 cup of starter.

Most dried starters come with activation directions. Activating a dried starter involves different amounts than maintenance feeding of the same starter.

I prefer to keep things simple. If my eyes start to glaze over when reading a recipe or sourdough culture, then I know it is more complicated than I want to deal with. LOL. In many cases, simple works just as well as complex - at least for me it does.

Teresa

Teresa, I like it simple too. The reason I asked about the 1:1:1 (starter:flour:water) rule was that a lot of people talked about it. I have heard people weigh their starter, flour, and water to calculate 100% or 135% hydration etc. They reported different hydration levels make significant difference when it comes to sourdough bread making.

As a sourdough newbie, I rather sticking to something simple. I use equal parts of starter, flour, and water and it has been working for me, so far. Once I get a hang of this basic thing I consider poking my nose into this hydration business.

Ginny, I'm not familiar with Carl's starter. But I the formula I use is equal amounts of flour and water to total the amount of starter I'm feeding. So if I feed 6 ounces of starter, than I use three ounces of flour and three ounces of water. Four ounces of starter would be two ounces of flour and two ounces of water.

Ann

When you are talking about one cup of starter (or any amount) , you are talking about one cup after you stirred it down, right?

Ginny

In most recipes that are not specific, the amount of starter called for assumes that it is starter that has been fed and left to expand for several hours or overnight and then the cup to be used in the recipe is poured out. I have never stirred down my starter before pouring out the amount to use in the recipe. My starter is stirred when I feed it and I whip air into it with the fork I am using to mix in the flour and water.

Other bakers might do things differently - and that's o.k.!

Teresa

So many different ways to do things! When I stir down the starter in preparation to discard some and feed it, the volumne changes by about 50% I'd say. You would think it makes a difference but you are a successful bread maker so it must not.

I just did some more reading and one place states use plastic, not glass, another states use glass not plastic. Just like growing roses and dahlias, the experts contradict each other right and left.

I guess I need to remember way back when bread making first started, they never followed a set of instructions!! :)

Ginny

I store my starter in glass canning jars with plastic screw-on lids. I mix and rise my sourdough bread in my stainless KA mixer bowl or in a large pottery bowl. I stir the feed into my starter with a stainless or plastic fork. Alcohol found in the starter can etch rings around plastic storage containers so that is why I use glass. I might mix in the feed with a stainless fork, but I would never leave the fork in the jar of starter nor would I store the starter in a metal bowl.

Teresa

I use plastic to stir and glass to store. I find it's easier to clean the starter off if stored in ceramics.

The more I do this the more I realize the 1:1:1 ratio is really not that critical. Like what some of you had said, back to the beginning there was no such thing of instructions.

Sometimes I feed my starter with the exact amount of flour + water = starter, but for days I feed it twice I just feed a couple of tablespoons of flour and water. My starter still looks pretty happy that way.

By the way, my wild yeast is looking pretty good at day 10 and I believe I will be able to use it for baking in another week or so. I am very excited about it.

The starter that I started with active dry yeast 3 weeks ago is doing very well. In fact, I have made many loaves of bread out of it.

I had one cup out last night so I made a sponge for a total of two cups. I used one cup for pancakes this morning. Still had one cup left so I searched online and found a sourdough coffee cake recipe. Made it and the result was very good. Now I have just one cup left in the fridge, plus one cup of wild yeast starter. I don't think I need more than that.

I am really loving this sourdough baking... makes me feel like a real cook! LOL

I use plastic to stir in and to store. I use a wooden spoon for the stirring. That is what is recommended by Amy Scherber. In the two years that I have been making sourdough I haven't had a problem using plastic. I buy the ziplock 1 quart/litre containers with the screw top lids. When I feed I use a clean container. I set the container on my scale and pour in 4 to 6 ounces of starter and then reset the scale to measure flour and the water. I stir it in the container and then put the lid on and leave it overnight to develop. Rather than throw out the remaining starter I use 2 to 4 ounces to make either a biga or a levain. I only feed mine about once every 7 to 10 days and never use more than 2 to 4 ounces at a time.

Congratulations althetrainer. It really is exciting to bake bread from your own starter.

Ann

Thanks Ann! I too, like to save the extra starter for pancakes. They are easy to make and my son loves them!

I had fed my wild yeast starter once more this evening and saved 1/2 of it to make pancakes, maybe even a loaf of Russian Black bread tomorrow. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Ginny, the reason there are so many different ways to do things is that there are a lot that work. Having had a starter going for over a year now, I've found that it isn't that picky.

For example, your original question of how much starter to add to make the sponge. It isn't critical. If the amount added is very small, then the sponge will take longer to double because it's starting out with very little yeast. If you add a lot and your starter is a wet one, then you may need to adjust the amount of flour you add to the bread later to get the dough right.

I keep my starter in a glass jar in the fridge because it is a convenient size.

I'm skeptical about the "no metal" thing. I wouldn't use a reactive metal, but I've stirred with stainless steel and haven't found it to do any harm. I sometimes let my dough rise in a stainless steel bowl.

I was a bit worried about whether my starter survived chemo. I only managed to get it out once during the last 5 months when I went through several cycles of fed and double until it was doubling quickly again. Yesterday I finally got it out of the fridge again. It took a while to double (the house is pretty cool at this time of year too) but by this morning it had doubled. It is pretty hardy stuff.