Vinyl Bubble woes

17 years ago

Hi all, lurker from Pets, renovating entire house. Right now we're on the bathroom.

I realise this question has probably been posted a zillion and one times. But its more of a question of what can be done, than why the bubbles are there.

My installers were dufus's from day one, and will probably never get another recomendation from the company they were hired out by again. My boyfriends boss has been working through this company for years and this weekend the manager is going to come take a look at the floor and perhaps attempt to fix the problem himself, or supervise dumb and dumber while they do it right.

I just want to know if they need to rip out the flooring, and completely replace it, or can they take it up and use it again?

Being that I have absolutely no experience in renovation or flooring period, and I'm fairly young(20), I didn't know what is right and not right about flooring.

I was shown two bubbles that were supposed to go away when the adhesive 'outgassed' I kind of wondered where the gas was supposed to go exactly, but I figured they knew what they were talking about. I was told that cranking the heat up there being that its a bit cold usually, would help pull the Vinyl in and seal it faster. But that if I chose to leave it cool, it would just take longer to set, not cause any problems.

When I called dumb and dumber back to say that I now have atleast one bubble per square foot, or MORE..they told me it must be too cold up there. Even though I cranked the heat and we suffered for three nights in ungodly hot temperatures. It definately wasn't too cold. He then went on to tell me that he did nothing wrong and he EVEN used 100 dollar adhesive. Well, quality materials dont = quality workmanship, buddy. He said they'll try to make it by sometime this weekend to see if anything can be done. I don't even know if I want them back in my house, to make things worse. I'd rather pay someone else to come fix it, if I have to.

Also, I'd like some more information on proper installation so if they try to tell me something, I know whether they're right or not.

How long does adhesive need to 'outgas' before you're supposed to put the vinyl down?

How long does it typically take for the floor to set?? I was told it would take 24-72 hours, but that we could walk on it immediately - just not to set anything heavy down on it??

Does temperature matter in the setting and outgassing of the adhesive??

If they do have to rip it out, will they have to float the floor again??

My bathroom was supposed to be done by the end of next week. Now it's looking like it won't be done for atleast two, because of this floor.

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Comments (11)

gypsyrose
17 years ago
Hi - just wondering what the outcome was. Just did a big room in vinyl and have a few puffy areas myself, but the installer assured me this is normal and the floor would "settle" in about 3 days. Anyone else care to weigh in - Floorguy are you around, what do you think?
glennsfc
17 years ago
Question is...how was your floor installed? Was yours a loose lay or a full spread, or other?
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russmahogany
17 years ago
If you'r talking about vinyl sheet goods, you need the name of the manufacturer and the style. Then go on line and check the installation instructions. I know a lot of sheet goods are layed with adhesive around the permeter only and some call for a certain adhesive. If it's layed contrary to the mfg instructions, then you can have problems. Let us know what kind of vinyl you have and what happens.
floorguy
17 years ago
All I know is, when I do vinyl, there are no bubbles when I leave.

Just like applying decals, you need to squeegy out the bubbles as you lay it and before it is trimmed in. I use a 2x4 wrapped in carpet, as a squeegy, to push all the bubbles out of the floor. Then I roll it with a 100# roller.
russmahogany
17 years ago
Who made your flooring? My advice is call the manufacturer. They usually have customer service and can tell you what the problem is and if it is normal. I went to Armstrong Installation School several years ago and I occasionally do a installation or a repair. I never even heard of a floor bubbling but then I don't do much installing. Are these guys licensed installers? Let us know what happens.
floorman67
17 years ago
Adhesive bubbles are completely improper isntallation. No good isntaller wil lleave a glued resilient job with bubbles in the floor.

If they wont roll out, then the floor was not rolled properly to allow adhesive transfer from the floor to the backing.

It may be able to be repaired depending on the problem causing it.

it the floor was rolled properly, then they may be able to roll the bubble down if it is a small bubble.

if it wasnt rolled properly and there is no adhesive transfer, then they will have to inject adhesive into it and roll it until its down.

they might be able to poke a hole in it with a needle or scriber pin and let out the air, then roll it flat.

if they poke it to let the air out or inject adhesive make sure they seal where they poked/opened it with approved manufaturer seam sealer (all seam sealers arent alike so make sure they use the one from your resilient manufacturer) or you will have trouble later in the life of the floor as moisture gradually seeps in over time, plus it will get discolored and dirty over time if it isnt sealed.

if they fit the area too tight and this has caused the bubbles, then removal and reinstallation may be required.

lastly, if after the repair you notice the repaired area or see anything other than a perfect brand new floor, make them completely reisntall a NEW PIECE of resilient flooring.

You arent paying for a hack job.
gypsyrose
17 years ago
Thanks for the responses. The flooring installer told me after the job that I could expect this but that after a few days the floor would all completely settle and lay down. My contractor (who is trustworthy and dependable) wanted me to use this company and he reiterated what the floor guy said. I guess I will just have to trust their judgment, but would have felt better if some of you here had agreed with their assessment. Guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens.
russmahogany
17 years ago
Flooring companies don't want to get a bad reputation because of improper installation. A few bad mechanics can give them a bad reputation. That's why they have customer service. The longer you wait, the less chance you have to get the problem corrected. CALL THE MANUFACTURER'S CUSTOMER SERVICE. OR EMAIL THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE. THEY WILL TELL YOU WHO'S CORRECT AND ALSO HELP YOU TO RESOLVE THE PROBLEM. Keep us informed.
floorman67
17 years ago
No "bubble" will settle down over time unless it is a perimeter bonded interflex-type floor (not fuill spread), in which case they arent trapped bubbles, but waviness in the flooring product from being rolled that certainly can take a few days to shrink out.

Full spread resilient install bubbles come from a lack of rolling or adhesive transfer.

A note about bubbles is that there can be excessive wear on the high spots of the bubble that can ruin the wear layer (premature wear), which is why they are a concern.

Offgassing excuse is a rediculous claim.

I don't mean to be argumentative but I been in the trade almost 30 years and heard all the excuses for bubbles, and that's all they are ... excuses.
russmahogany
17 years ago
You'r not arguing with me. I know there not supposed to be bubbles. I'm just trying to get munkos some backup. A letter from the manufacturer will leave the installer with no ground to stand on and will hold up in small claims court if it comes to that. But munkos has to do it.
floorguy
17 years ago
It has been days, are they any smaller?

Vinyl Bubble woes

Comments (11)

gypsyrose

glennsfc

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