The addition of orange juice sounds really good, I think I'd like that and I'm going to have to try it. Egg will make a difference in texture, and honey will keep bread moister longer (as do some other sweeteners).

Annie

And the acid in the OJ gives the yeast a kick too...

It's probably the total sum of the ingredients and what each contributes, as well as the type of mixing method - straight dough method - which is a more modern method of bread making.

There is a substance in wheat germ (which is a component of the whole wheat flour) called Glutathione which breaks down the gluten. Hence those compact loaves of whole wheat bread. Glutathione affects the quality and rise. I always add 1/8-teaspoon ascorbic acid to yeast breads which contain wheat germ or whole wheat flour, to counteract the negative effects of Glutathione. In your recipe, the ascorbic acid (which is one of the components of Vitamin C found in orange juice) helps prevent the gluten bonds from breaking down; but also helps repair gluten bonds that have already been broken.

As lindac mentions, the acid "gives the yeast a kick". The ascorbic acid in Vitamin C helps sustain the leavening of bread loaves during baking and promotes yeast growth. This helps the yeast to work longer and faster - producing the acidic atmosphere in which yeast grows best.

The additional vital wheat gluten is probably unnecessary. There's more than enough gluten in the flours you used to raise the bread. Too much gluten can actually make the bread tough. There is also ascorbic acid in vital wheat gluten.

Honey adds flavor and moisture, as well as helps the keeping quality of breads. If you freeze yeast breads, honey helps keep the moisture in the crumb of the loaves better than sugar in a recipe.

Since the fat was added early in the mixture, this will cause a nice close grain in the crumb, an almost cake-like texture, which is great for using for sandwich breads.

Adding the fat early "shortens" the gluten strands so you have a more compact loaf. If you were to add the fat after the gluten was developed - towards the end of the kneading, you would get a taller loaf with a more open crumb, which is good for breads you want to use for toast.

Milk will help bread rise higher and the crust to brown more evenly and quickly. Milk in breads also contributes to a finer texture and better keeping quality. BUT, too much milk can cause the crust to look like a roller coaster. Heating (or scalding) the milk reverses the negative effects from the whey protein in milk that can cause a problem with the size and symmetry of the loaf, as well as the crust.

It looks like you've found a KEEPER!

-Grainlady

Thanks, I knew you three would come through!! :) This is a keeper. I sent it to my son, too, HE BAKES BREAD ALL THE TIME (my daughters don't cook - go figure). I'll pass on all this bread knowledge, too.

I think it's basically the recipe I saved that Annie posted last year. I found this on the interwebs yesterday, and since it was a snowy day and the orange juice appealed to me, I thought I would give it a try. It's a good moist crumb and not sweet.

The crust is darker than "usual", is there a way to prevent that? I'll knock out the vital wheat gluten next weekend and see what happens.

Back in the early 70's, in a whole other life, I baked all our bread for many years and I could never find a recipe that gave me bread with a soft moist crumb. Back then, all I had were a few cookbooks, nothing connecting me to the whole world of bread knowledge except the library. Once we had kids, they liked the "soft bread from the store" better, so I stopped baking bread (sigh).

Barb

I want to try this recipe and use my bread machine to mix. Is it necessary to heat the liquids or is the preheat in the bread machine sufficient? And, am I correct in assuming that the egg goes in with the liquids?

Thanks, Brenda

I'm going to give this one a try too. I'made a batch this AM, I even did it by hand!

Thank you Grainlady for the tip about when to add the butter. I added it half way trough kneeding. The dough seemed a bit oily after I dd that. I'm assuming it's becasue the dough doesn't absorb the moisture like it does when added to the flour.

So we'll see how it goes. I'm just never very happy with the texture of my bread, it's always too dense.

Thanks for the recipe Mom.....

whistle I think for the bread machine you might need to melt the butter, but the yeast will get the heat it needs from the bread machine (if you are using instant bread machine yeast). I like to warm up my liquids, since they are usually coming directly from the fridge. Two minutes in the microwave will warm up two cups of cold liquid just fine (seems friendlier somehow!?).

I use my KA to mix and knead. I use the flat paddle to mix the initial flour/liquid and then switch to the dough hook when I start to add the remaining flour.

The egg goes into the flour with the liquids.

Next time I'll tent my bread with foil near the end of baking so it doesn't get too dark. It was a heavy dough, I was worried that I'd have lumps, but it raised and baked up nicely.

It still has a great texture the next morning, with butter and some of my strawberry jam from last summer.

Enjoy

Well Mom I made the bread and it's so good! I just had a slice with butter and love the flavour.

The texture is better than I've ever had with a WW bread, not dense at all. Mine didn't rise as high as I would have liked. Maybe I should have let the second rise go longer. Who knows it's all in the bread gods hands far as I can figure out......

Will be making this again you can be sure. Can't wait for my toast tomorrow AM!

Thanks again.

It is a nice texture, isn't it. I was pleasantly surprised. Glad you liked it, too.

With the info from Grainlady, I may make try some additions to some of my other bread recipes now.

Thanks Grainlady for the explanation about the milk I didnÂt know that and sometimes, not always, I would get the roller coaster crust now I know why.

Momj, your recipe is pretty much the same as the one I use except I use 1 package of yeast. I add ½ of soaked Quaker Oats, ½ cup cooked wheat berries and sometimes a tablespoon of ground flax seeds. I made some this morning and added the orange juice and it came out great. IÂve been playing around with this recipe for the last year, yes I think it is AnnieÂs, and finally came up with something DH really likes. He likes the texture of the wheat berries and I found if I cook the whole package and freeze them in ½ cup portions it cuts down on the amount of time it takes to mix up the bread.

Claudia

momj47 -

It was a "dead" afternoon, so I printed off your recipe and tossed it in the Zojirushi (bread machine) and made the dough. I made a few additions, but it was a lovely dough to work with. I made it into two small (1-pound) loaves and an 8-inch square pan of dinner rolls (served with dinner). Hubby declared them a "KEEPER" too. He liked the extra sweetness and requested I make the remaining dinner rolls into "ham buns" for him to take to work for lunch tomorrow.

I used agave nectar instead of honey, coconut oil instead of butter, added flaxmeal, and multi-grain cereal for some texture and "crunch".

All's well that ends well ;-)!

-Grainlady

I'd like to try this in my Breadman but I'm not sure it can handle this amount of ingredients (using the dough cycle only). I think my machine only makes a 1 1/2 pound loaf, not a 2 pound loaf. Will I have a mess or should I scale the recipe back?

Thanks.

Lee

momj47 Thanks for the response. I'm still a bit confused about exactly where to put the egg when using my Zo machine.

Grainlady, do you have time to list the ingredients in the order that you put them in the machine? I apologize for being so "thick". I think I'm bread challenged!

Thanks, Brenda

I know you can cut the recipe for a bread machine, but I'm not sure if it's exactly in half or slightly more than half.

I would think you would add the egg, beaten slightly, when you add the liquid to the bread machine. I haven't used my bread machine since my kids gave me the big KA mixer! I did get my son the Zo bread machine, and he uses it all the time.

Looks like a good tasting bread recipe. I made the Whole Wheat sandwich from the Healthy Bread in 5 last week, it had honey in it. The sweetness was a nice change.
Thanks for sharing your recipe.

Grainlady what size of pan did you use for the l lb loaf?

The use of orange juice reminded me of a recipe I used recently from King Arthur Flour for a 100% whole wheat sandwich bread. It was really good with a lovely texture and taste. It also used the combination of milk & orange juice along with some mashed potato flakes. I'm anxious to try this recipe though because I think I'd like the use of honey rather than sugar.

Here is a link that might be useful: KAF 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread-- Guaranteed

Now I'm wanting to try this bread, too. Grainlady, can you give the amounts of the substitutions you made, and tell us if you cut back on the other ingredients because of the substitutions or additions?

Whistle, it looks to me that you add the egg at the same time you add the liquid ingredients. So, once you've heated up the liquid ingredients, you add them, and you add the egg, which wasn't part of the liquid ingredients, to the flour. I doubt if it matters if you add the egg before or after you add the liquid ingredients. I'd probably add the liquid ingredients, then add the eggs, and then start mixing.

Sally

Whistle - Here you go....

1. Scalded the milk and cooled it. Mixed warm milk, warmed water and o.j., egg and agave nectar (or honey if you are using it) in the bottom of the pan.

2. Mixed together flours (and vital wheat gluten and flaxmeal, if used) and add to the top of the liquids.

3. Add the yeast to the top of the flour. (Note I added the fat and salt later during the kneading. It takes stress off the bread machine with this much bulk to mix the dough WITHOUT the salt. The gluten develops quicker, and once the salt is added, the gluten strands tighten up making kneading a little more difficult.

4. Set Zo. on QUICK DOUGH. Press START.

5. After 5 minutes of mixing/kneading, be sure to check to make sure the dough has the correct hydration and adjust it if you need to. You want a nice soft dough ball.

6. After 10 minutes of kneading (or when it looks like the gluten is developing nicely, add the melted butter and salt. When the add-in beep sounds, add 1/2-3/4 c. multi-grain cereal (if using it - I milled a mixture of barley, rye, triticale, spelt, oats and rice).

7. When the kneading is complete, remove the dough from the pan and place in a dough rising bucket (or however you normally work your dough). DO NOT allow the dough to rise in the bread machine because this is more dough than suggested for the machine.

8. Allow the dough to rise to just under double. Punch down. Divide dough (I had 3 portions that weighed around 1-lb. 2-oz. each. Round the dough (so you have the ball formed into a tight ball with NO shaggy edges from the dough being cut, and the gluten strands are going from the top to the bottom of the ball), cover (I use plastic wrap) and allow to rest 10-15 minutes so the gluten can relax. Form, cover (plastic wrap), and allow to rise to just under double......

I made one portion into 9 dinner rolls (8-inch square pan) and baked the bread in 8"x4-1/2" NORPRO pans, but I also use heavy-gauge Calphalon pans that are the same size, or will use some ancient Bake King loaf pans that are 7-1/2"x3-1/2" (for dough amounts between 12-16 ounces). If the dough is over 1-pound, I'll use the larger pans.

I baked my loaves to 200°F. when tested with an instant read thermometer.

-Grainlady

Oh, Grainlady, thank you sooooo much for the complete explanation.......especially number 7!! I would have let it go in the machine! That would have been a MESS! I'll get this started this afternoon after I finish shoveling snow!

Thanks again, Whistle

Grainlady, I have three of those "ancient" Bake King pans and I use them all the time, they make a nice sized smaller loaf for just a couple of people.

I have a couple of Calphalon pans that are quite a lot bigger, and a loaf in those won't fit into a gallon ziplock bag for the freezer or to take to work.

I'll bet those little Bake Kings have baked thousands of loaves...

Annie

FYI - you can get 2 gallon and 2 1/2 gallon food storage bags, I get mine at Walmart. Great for big loaves of bread (and knitting and sewing, etc).

momj47, not here. I've found the two gallon bags exactly once, never again. The largest I've found is one gallon. I keep trying to remember to buy two gallon bags when I go to Grand Rapids but I never remember.

That and the yellow lentils, LOL, I'll have to write a list!

Annie

Annie, I keep forgetting my lists. The older I get the fewer tasks I can multi.

Well, I'm glad it's not just me. I write lists and forget where I put the lists.

Yesterday I forgot coffee!! Can you imagine? I didn't think I'd ever forget to buy coffee....

Annie