It just didn't work for me at all. I watched the demo video and tried to duplicate the feather light pressure they were using. It seemed to do nothing. Then I added some serious elbow grease. Still nothing, except a bunch of scratch marks along the sides. My knife is sharp-ish on its own, but not what I'd call sushi sharp. Sharp enough to cut a watermelon or a hard skinned squash, but it takes what feels like an unsafe amount of pressure and leverage. I only use one knife for everything, and it often gets used several times a day, but I still keep feeling like there must be some better way that I'm not getting. Teppanyaki chefs tell me that they use average cheap knives, and the magic is in the sharpening. If I can't think of a better plan, I may just try to pay them to do it.

Dcarch - I heard you singing all the way to my home! lol. I don't have any tips for sharpening, but I am coming here to learn the fine art of sharpening everything from knives to my garden tools. I found a man that comes to the farmers market to sharpen tools but he is just so busy during the time that he is there that I think sharpening is a skill that I need to learn. I just use those long sharpeners for now. The stone and liquids are still a mystery to me.
Travel safe and have a very Happy 2013!

Silvia

I posted this recently on a different thread. If you follow the link you'll get more info on sharpening.

I'm a bit of a nut about insisting on sharp knives. They are safer to use because you don't need as much force; if you have to use a lot of force, you don't have as much control. --Sharpening does involve removing a bit of metal. Those 'sharpening steels' really don't sharpen much, they reset the edge if it has been bent over to one side.

There's a guy named Steve Botorff who has a book out, Sharpening Made Easy. He also has a website on which he has generously made a lot of the info in the book available for free. The link is to his website. Go ahead and read the five chapters he's posted; they're just a few pages each, and it may clarify what sharpening devices you may want to get.

At the website he reviews all sorts of devices, from simple slot gadgets to guide rod systems (like the Lansky) to electric knife sharpeners for the home, all the way to professional equipment. For home use, he likes the Chef's Choice 130 (around $160 from Amazon).

What I have found most useful is a paper wheel system. They consist of two compressed cardboard wheels you mount on a bench grinder. On one you put wax and carborundum grit; on the other you put jeweler's rouge. You sharpen the blade ('create a wire edge' is what the sharpening experts call it)on the carborundum wheel and hone it on the jeweler's rouge wheel. Very easy, you can get the hang of it in a few minutes. The disadvantage of the system is that you need space for a dedicated grinder in your garage or workshop. The advantage is that you can take a dull stainless blade and get a razor edge on it in just a few minutes. Cost for this system is around $60 for the paper wheels and about $40 to $60 for a cheap bench grinder. I like the system a lot. About twice a year I take all my knives down to the workshop, and within an hour or so I have all of them razor sharp; the steel keeps them sharp the rest of the time.

By the way, I generally prefer old school carbon steel knives to stainless--you know, the kind that can rust. They're getting harder to find since stainless has taken over. Stainless is a little trickier to get sharp than carbon steel, but I find the paper wheel system works like a charm on them.

Here is a link that might be useful: sharpening made easy

Thanks so much for your reply.

So, how do I find a good carbon steel knife? Any experience with either of these?

http://www.amazon.com/Dexter-Russell-10-Inch-Carbon-Steel-Cooks/dp/B001503ODY/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1357147189&sr=1-4&keywords=carbon+steel+knife

http://www.amazon.com/Mundial-Series-10-Inch-Chefs-Knife/dp/B0002LXWAW/ref=sr_1_8?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1357147241&sr=1-8&keywords=carbon+steel+knife

Both those knives are high carbon stainless steel, not high carbon steel.

IMHO, when you buy a knife, the best thing is to go to a store and try it out in you hand and see if you like the feel. It's like buying shoes, you need to try them out.

dcarch

Carbon steel knives are still made, but hard to find. Disadvantage is they discolor when cutting acidic stuff (citrus, onions, tomatoes)--I use stainless for that.

I have found most of mine at flea markets and garage sales, but there are still some carbon steel Sabatiers being made today: google 'Sabatier au Carbone' They can be pricey, though.

Another choice where you can get some good carbon steel cutlery at good prices is an eBay merchant named Ralph1396. I've bought stuff from him, and the items are well described; he has everything from budget knives for a few dollars all the way up to collectible Sabatiers for $$$. I've linked to his eBay store (disclosure: I have no connection with him, I'm just a satisfied customer). If you click on his category 'high quality/low price cutlery' you can find some very reasonably priced carbon steel knives to try and see if you like them.

There are other eBay sellers of carbon steel cutlery; just do an ebay search for 'carbon steel knives'. Most of the sellers know, though, that these items are desirable and price them accordingly.

By the way, Julia Child preferred carbon steel to stainless; in all fairness, the high carbon stainless knives have been improved since the first models. Still, whenever I have a big task like trimming a beef tenderloin, I reach for the old dark carbon steel knives. Ugly but very functional.

Here is a link that might be useful: ebay store for carbon steel knives

I have the Chef's Choice 130 unit and I find it works really well and it's practically foolproof.
Jane

Thanks for the recommendation, Arley! I don't care if my knife discolors as long as it works. Thanks too, Jane. It's always encouraging to hear the same recommendation from multiple people.

One other source of carbon steel knives: the Ontario Knife Company makes inexpensive carbon steel knives under the Old Hickory label. Google 'Old Hickory Knives' for options. I have an Old Hickory boning knife that is really heavy duty, but still stays good and sharp. I've heard from aficionados that the new ones are a little thinner than the old ones, but they still work fine. These are not fancy at all, and the edge from the factory is laughably dull, but you can put a very good edge on them pretty easily. The nice thing is that they are so reasonably priced you can try them out for little $$$, and even if you eventually decide against dealing with rustable knives for the kitchen, you still have a stout utility knife for use around the house. They are available at Amazon, Knives Plus, and there's a real bargain at the link: five knives for just over $25.

Here is a link that might be useful: old hickory knife set

I'm used to an 8" Chef's knife, so I'll probably go with a santoku or chef's around that size. I have average sized hands and don't seem particularly sensitive to handle grips, but getting used to a different shape blade seems to be uncomfortably difficult, like writing with the wrong hand.

As mentioned in the "Santa" thread, I received a carbon steel knife for Christmas. Linked below is the second of three Youtubes about maintaining the knife. Perhaps you'll find it useful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bob Kramer on sharpening

Thanks for posting, kitchendetective. Is that the method you use? Which stones do you use?

I'm also curious about the darkening issue. I hear mixed things on whether the patina caused by acidic foods damages the knife or not. I mostly chop produce, so realistically I probably wouldn't make much use of a knife that can't touch acid. Do you plan to use a SS knife for fruit, etc, or will you use you new CS knife for everything?

I use a Chef's Choice, too. Fairly idiot proof and I end up with all my fingers intact.

I have two Norrton waterstones, 4,000 and 8,000 grit. I use them on my French and German knives. While the method in the Youtube is what I use, I'm not sure I'm ready to try it on the BK. I did try out the Kramer today on onions. The knife has German-style heft, which surprised me because my Japanese knives are so much lighter than my German ones, and it is an absolute pleasure to use. I like the knife to do all the work for me. It came with a small vial of Camelia oil, too! My hands are medium sized women's hands, and some would probably think this knife's handle is geared more for a large hand, but the handle feels great to me. Very comfortable. Incidentally, the Youtube makes it sound like it's no big deal to apply exactly the correct initial pressure and to lighten up incrementally and precisely. I'm not convinced I do that so perfectly, even after practice. I do believe the scale demonstration is useful, though.

This post was edited by kitchendetective on Thu, Jan 3, 13 at 20:48

Forget about all those exotic techniques for sharpening. They are for people who like to have their knives sharper than a surgeon's scalpel.

For a general kitchen knife, it is super easy to sharpen, there is no special skills to learn .

First determine the angle for your particular knife for sharpening. All you need is a marker to mark on the edge (First picture) and start grinding at a blunt angle (Pic #1). You can see how far you are from the edge by looking at the wear of the mark (pic #2). Then you grind the knife at a more acute angle until you you see the mark has been worn to the edge (pic #3), that would be the correct angle to keep for that knife for sharpening.

Get a couple of wet stones from coarse to fine grit and start sharpening at the angle you have determined as per above. 5 minutes later, you will enjoy the pleasure of easy cutting for all your cooking.

dcarch

dcarch

I use stones. Simple and sort of contemplative.

A trick is, take a square of paper (like a post-it), fold in half on the diagonal once, then fold in half again, the result is a 22.5 degree wedge. If one of those folds is in thirds, the result is a 15.0 degree wedge. That piece of folded paper can be used to help you hold the knife at the desired angle.

Typically European chef knifes were factory sharpened at about 20 degrees, that is on each side, so total included angle 40 degrees. Japanese slicing knives are typically sharpened at 15 degrees, and sometimes only on one side, for total included angle 15 to 30 degrees. The wider angle holds up better to heavy work (crunching through a chicken) with the softer steel of typical European knives. The narrower angle cuts more easily but requires harder steel and isn't as tolerant of abuse.

You might, for instance, sharpen your big Chef's knife to 20 degrees and your slicer to 15 degrees.

I have European knives and sharpen them all to 15 degrees, I don't abuse them and they hold up. For chopping up chickens etc I have a cheap cleaver that never gets sharpened.

There is no food that can ever dull a knife.

If you keep a sharp knife just for slicing food and do not let the edge touch the cutting board and bones, it will stay sharp forever.

Use another knife for chopping and working with bones.

It will be a long time before you need to sharpen a knife.

dcarch

Hmm. I think we need another thread on which knives you consider indispensable. I've never owned more than one. A cleaver might actually pay for itself, if it meant I wasn't hesitant to buy bigger chunks of meat and cut them up myself. I've thought about a bread knife too. I was able to get a sharpening lesson today at the farmer's market. What I found most helpful was seeing the amount of pressure used and the angle, and feeling how much burr there should be before switching to the next finer stone.

Now that I think about it, maybe it would make sense to use different angles for different parts of the blade. Say you have a 10" chefs. Maybe the heel should be a wide angle, 25 degree, for crunching heavy work, and the tip an acute angle, 12-15 degree, for delicate work. Would be tricky to do.

dcarch, maybe we should invent a cutting board that has a recessed slot, allowing slicing without the edge touching the board. Otherwise, it seems inconvenient to cut up food without ever touching the edge on the board?

Now that I think about it, maybe it would make sense to use different angles for different parts of the blade. Say you have a 10" chefs. Maybe the heel should be a wide angle, 25 degree, for crunching heavy work, and the tip an acute angle, 12-15 degree, for delicate work. Would be tricky to do.

dcarch, maybe we should invent a cutting board that has a recessed slot, allowing slicing without the edge touching the board. Otherwise, it seems inconvenient to cut up food without ever touching the edge on the board?

John, it would be so much easier to have two knives. A sharp one for slicing and a less sharp one for rough work.

You don't need a special cutting board to preserve knife edges. All you have to do is get used to slicing, not chopping.

Look at these two videos, the main knife edge never touches the board.

dcarch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3h5HFNreXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3ipKPR6AI

This post was edited by dcarch on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 9:34

There have been discussions on KnifeForums of varaible sharpening and varying geometry from point to heel. Too refined for my skills. Rather use cleavers for bones, filet knives for boning, chef's knives for chopping, yanigabas for sashimi, and so forth. And those chef's knives and cleavers definitely "touch" the boards when I'm using them.

I see what you mean. At the end of each stroke, he lifts the heel of the blade so that only the very tip ever contacts the board, if even that. Tthe blade's edge never does touch the board. Very nice. I don't know how well that works with a traditional western chef knife that has a lot of belly? I will try it.